Cert of Compliance

zalm

Guys, have a query for ye about the Cert of Compliance.

We recently had our attic converted for use as a guest bedroom and as part of the quote were assured that the work would be supplied with a Cert of Compliance as required.

Now having trawled through a few of the threads here the sensible thing to do would be to have engaged our own engineer to oversee the build, but alas we trusted the builder and his associated engineer.

Now, we have been waiting for the cert for a while now and after finally getting a hold of the builder yesterday he informs me that the engineer will give a cert of compliance, but apparently not for use as a bedroom.

My question is, are there different types of certs of compliance??? My guess is that there is only one and that any other downgraded cert is probably worthless.

And where does that leave the attic conversion if there is a 'downgraded cert' or no cert at all? Is it just a case of our 3-bed semi-d remaining a 3-bed semi-d, but with large attic storage or is it more sinister than that...?

Thanks for your help!

RKQ

This is not an unusual situation. I agree that you should have retained your own Technician or Engineer, to inspect the work regularly and certify same.

I assume the Builder designed the conversion. This has legal aspects to it which I won't comment on, apart from the fact you seem to have a contract to convert your attic to a bedroom and certify same.

A Cert of Compliance is relatively standard, based on RIAI format or the Law Society format or maybe a mixture of both. Basically if confirms in writing, that a structure or extension complies with the Building Regulations (substancial compliance). IMO its a sworn affidavitt.

Your bedroom is either a bedroom (habital room) and certified as such or its a store! The ceiling height is the main issue as it must be 2.4mm over the majority of the space.

If its a bedroom you've added value to the property if its a store it may add valve but not as much. A attic conversion must comply with fire regulations. There is a leaflet on the Dept of Environment website.

smashey

RKQ wrote: »

The ceiling height is the main issue as it must be 2.4mm over the majority of the space.

It's an insect dormitory.


Sorry RKQ, couldn't resist.

zalm

Thanks RKQ.

That's pretty much what I thought.

I'm assuming you meant 2.4m and I don't think it qualifies under that rule. [Although I thought it was something like the ceiling needs to be at least half the area of the footprint @ 1.3m] As such i reckon it's gonna be a very nice store room with handy ensuite....

I assume though that a Cert of Compliance is still required to confirm that alterations have taken place to convert the attic into a nice store?

muffler

smashey wrote: »

It's an insect dormitory.


Sorry RKQ, couldn't resist.

We are in top form this morning young smashey

muffler

zalm wrote: »

Thanks RKQ.

That's pretty much what I thought.

I'm assuming you meant 2.4m and I don't think it qualifies under that rule. [Although I thought it was something like the ceiling needs to be at least half the area of the footprint @ 1.3m] As such i reckon it's gonna be a very nice store room with handy ensuite....

I assume though that a Cert of Compliance is still required to confirm that alterations have taken place to convert the attic into a nice store?

As RKQ pointed out its a fairly standard procedure. If the conversion complies with all the building regs then you wont have a problem. If it doesn't then you can still get a cert albeit for a different type of development (room name/title). Compliance with fire regs would worry me more than than the ceiling height though.

But hold on till sinnerboy sees this

sydthebeat

It must also be remembered that the 2.4 height is a 'suggested' dimension and not an acutal requirement. Its left open to the intrepretation of the certifier.

What is the actual height???

Does it have windows that comply with fire regulations??

Does the conversion constitute a third storey??

zalm

sydthebeat wrote: »

What is the actual height???

Does it have windows that comply with fire regulations??

Does the conversion constitute a third storey??

Actual height [without being at home and able to measure] would be around 210cm.

There are 3 velux windows, 500mm wide and approx a metre long so they do comply.

It would constitute a 3rd storey I'd say. Solid stairs above existing stairs to landing with top door.

However, I'm more and more convinced that it cannot be classed as a 'habitable' 3rd storey, but more just a store.

RKQ

smashey wrote: »

It's an insect dormitory.


Sorry RKQ, couldn't resist.

Its a fair Cop! Well spotted Smashey.:D

sinnerboy

zalm wrote: »

However, I'm more and more convinced that it cannot be classed as a 'habitable' 3rd storey, but more just a store.

It can't . You are not alone ( sung to the tune of Michael Jackson falsetto ) :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Make sure that windows comply fully with means of escape or rescue provisions , that you fit closers to all doors leading onto the stairway , that you have a fire door at either the top or bottom of the stairway to the attic and that you have smoke detectors , all co linked , mains powered , to all stairway floor landings , and in your living room together with a heat detector in your kitchen

How is the roof vented ? - 50mm gap between insulation of roofing felt ? 25mm continuous vent strip to eaves + continuous vent strip , or equivalent, at apex

What happens behind the upright walls i.e. the the remaining Christmas tree / golf bag sling-into-space ? Does the floor boarding extend and seal to the the underside of the rafters ? Are the rafters plasterboard lined here . If not your attic floor structure is not fire resistant as required

Any recessed lighting in the ceilings of the first floor ? Are they fire stopped ?

Any structural steels used ? Are they intumescent painted - or clad in fireboard ?

.

sydthebeat

zalm wrote: »

Actual height [without being at home and able to measure] would be around 210cm.

There are 3 velux windows, 500mm wide and approx a metre long so they do comply.

It would constitute a 3rd storey I'd say. Solid stairs above existing stairs to landing with top door.

However, I'm more and more convinced that it cannot be classed as a 'habitable' 3rd storey, but more just a store.

zalm
when you open the rooflight, is the distance from the junction of the roofline and rooflight frame between 1100 and 600mm off the floor level?
I have a feeling it might be too high.....

If it forms a third storey then
1. the stairs needs to be protected unless the third storey is separate by fire resisting conctruction.
2. if the stairs is protected the doors leading into the stairwell need to be 30 min fire doors self closing.

zalm

sinnerboy wrote: »

Make sure that windows comply fully with means of escape or rescue provisions , that you fit closers to all doors leading onto the stairway , that you have a fire door at either the top or bottom of the stairway to the attic and that you have smoke detectors , all co linked , mains powered , to all stairway floor landings , and in your living room together with a heat detector in your kitchen

There is a fire door at the top of the stairs, though not self closing. Will look into that. The mains powered smoke alarms a good idea also.

sinnerboy wrote: »

How is the roof vented ? - 50mm gap between insulation of roofing felt ? 25mm continuous vent strip to eaves + continuous vent strip , or equivalent, at apex

Yup. 50mm gap to felt and open vent at the eaves.

sinnerboy wrote: »

What happens behind the upright walls i.e. the the remaining Christmas tree / golf bag sling-into-space ? Does the floor boarding extend and seal to the the underside of the rafters ? Are the rafters plasterboard lined here . If not your attic floor structure is not fire resistant as required

Floorboards extend to eaves over most of remaining space. Still some gaps though. What do you mean by the rafters being plasterboard lined?

Any recessed lighting in the ceilings of the first floor ? Are they fire stopped ?

No.

Any structural steels used ? Are they intumescent painted - or clad in fireboard ?

No

.

zalm

sydthebeat wrote: »

when you open the rooflight, is the distance from the junction of the roofline and rooflight frame between 1100 and 600mm off the floor level?

Saw this as well and like you, not sure. Gonna have to check tonight

Do these F&S regs apply to a conversion even if it is classed as storage or are these particular to habitable living space?

sydthebeat

zalm wrote: »

Saw this as well and like you, not sure. Gonna have to check tonight

Do these F&S regs apply to a conversion even if it is classed as storage or are these particular to habitable living space?

the regs apply to habitable space....

the reason i ask is that it wouldnt be unreasonable for a certifier to certify that the space is habitable even with the 2100 ceiling height... once the fire regs and ventilation regs are met in full.....