Irish grammar

snowflakes

Hi,

I think I'll be ok for the oral and listening(hopefully!) but I have difficulties when it comes to written Irish.
Mainly the urús and séimhiú and where to put them! Is there anywhere that would give me an insight into these grammer points?
I really need to learn these basic grammer structures. It even damages my chances in the comprehensions.

Thanks..:o

cautioner

OK, I'm not 100% on these things either, but I think the following is correct:

Past tense takes a séimhiu. (Chaith mé = I threw)

Negative takes a séimhiu. (Ni chaith mé = I do not throw, note that that's in the present tense.)

Past tense negaitve takes Nior. I'm not sure about the seimhiu here. (Nior chaith mé = I did not throw)

Ár (as in "our") gives an uru. (Ár gclann = our family)

"Ar an" gives an uru. (Ar an mbóthair = on the road)

I think there's probably a list of uru-inducing terms, don't know them off the top of my head.

If I'm wrong on any of this I'm sorry!

Cokehead Mother

Then in comes the Tuiseal Ginideach and the declensions and it all gets very scary.

Maybe you could just get one of those little grammar books and see how much damage you can reverse at this stage.

Piste

Grammar an Draoi is supposed to be quite good, you could try getting that.

bythewoods

Irish Grammar is petrifying.

I never did the Tuiseal Ginideach/ declensions last year. Or ever for that matter. In fact, I only found out there were feminine and masculine words last week! It came as a bit of a shock tbh.
All theses urús, séimhiús, slenderinsing etc- I hadn't a clue.

Anyway, the point of this post isn't mere empathy or something- I got a B1 last year knowing absolutely NO grammar. So there's hope for you! I'm actually being taught it for the first time ever, and scary as it is it's not too bad. I started the Tuiseal Ginideach today and there was a bit (OK, a lot..) of confusion.. but it makes sense once you get into it!
I'm sure you could try teach yourself a bit of it out of a grammar book, yeah.
Here's what I've learnt as of late:

The urús:
m before b - ag an mbainisteoir
g before c- ag an gcailín
n before d - ag an ndoctúir
bh before f- ag an bhfeirmeoir
n before g - ag an ngarraíodóir
b before p - ag an bpáiste
d before t - ag an dtiománaí

These take urús:
ag an - ag an gcat
ar an - ar an mbus
as an - as an gcailín
chuig an - chuig an mbád
faoin - faoin mbórd
ár + bhur+a (see aidiacht shealbhach)
ón - ón bpáirc
tríd an - tríd an bpost
thar an - thar an mballa
roimh an - roimh an gcuairteoir
leis an - leis an mbuachaill
dá - dá mbeadh sé níos fearr...
an? - an ndéanann tú é sin?
i - i dtrioblóid, i gcónaí
uimheacha 7-10 - seacht/ ocht/ naoi/ deich ndaoine

These take séimhiús (ie, h)
ar - bhí fearg ar Mhaillí
de - d'fhiafraigh mé de Shéamus
do - thug mé an liathróid do Phól
faoi - faoi bhrú
ó - ó phríosún
trí - trí thine
roimh - roimh Shéan
don - don chailín
mo+ do+ a (see aidiacht shealbhach)
ró - rómhór
an- - an-mhaith
ní - ní dhéanann
níor - níor chuir
ar? - ar chuir?
nuair a - nuair a thagaim abhaile
má - má dhéanann tú
sa - sa bhaile
uimhreacha 1-6 - aon/ dó bhád (etc)


The possesive adjective (An Aidiacht Shealbhach):
(My) mo + h, eg, mo chóta (m'airgead)
(Your)do + h, eg, do chóta ( d'airgead)
(His)a + h, eg, a chóta (a airgead)
(Hers)a - , eg, a cóta (a hairgead)
(Our) ár + urú, eg, ár gcótaí (ár n-airgead)
(Your [plural]) Bhur + urú, eg, bhur gcótaí (bhur n-airgead)
(Their)A + urú, eg, a gcótaí (a n-airgead)


Anyway, there's probably about a million exceptions.
And undoubtedly a few mistakes- if so, let me know!

PurpleFistMixer

There's a pretty hardcore Irish grammar site here: http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/gram.htm
Mad stuff though.

I used graiméar an draoi. If you have Fiúntas a hAon, it's literally the grammar section from that, which is a bit of a copout, but it's handy to have the grammar in one small book at hand. What helped me a fair bit was making wall plan things with where to put urus etc., so when I was writing essays I could just glance up and check things, and it sort of went in... sorta... Though still to this day I just go with whatever "feels" right. Yup. That's some good Irish language education for you.

MathsManiac

I would strongly recommend "Leabhar Gramadaí Gaeilge" by Nollaig Mac Congáil, published by Cló Iar-Chonnachta, as a comprehensive modern reference book for Irish grammar.

LivingDeadGirl

I'm also finding irish grammar difficult to get to grips with. I have Graimear an Draoi but it's all in irish so i spend half my time translating the explanations :rolleyes: Do the other books mentioned explain things as Gaeilge no as Bearla?(apologies about the lack of fadas, my keyboard doesn't give me that option )

MathsManiac

The one I mentioned is through Irish, but he has a corresponding one in English too:

http://www.cic.ie/product.asp?idproduct=349&showreview=true

MM.