Voluntary Transfer to site between family members

katemc

Does anyone know how to do a diy transfer of a site between family members without involving solicitors - have been on landregistry but cant see any info

Victor

I don't think you can legally.

Potentially go to the solicitor you used when buying originally - they will have half the work done already.

I understand there is a stamp duty reduction - but check (with your solicitor).

BuffyBot

Moved to Accomodation/Property.

Cantab.

katemc wrote: »

Does anyone know how to do a diy transfer of a site between family members without involving solicitors - have been on landregistry but cant see any info

If you're a farmer, you're grand.

PAYE worker, you're screwed.

The_Conductor

Cantab. wrote: »

If you're a farmer, you're grand.

PAYE worker, you're screwed.

By farmer- you have to be in possession of a "Green Cert" or a degree in Agricultural Science- having your own plot of vegetables does not count...... Also if you wish to avail of farmers valuation (1/10 of open market price) the site has to be above 2 hectares in size, and without any dwelling or planning for one. Its not a simple case of, hey, I'm a farmer- I shouldn't pay any tax on this transaction........

The transaction between family members has CAT and CGT implications- but can be gifted, subject to limitations on valuation and the nature of the familial relationship, between the two family members, without CAT implications. Its most beneficial taxwise if its from a parent to a child.

Cantab.

smccarrick wrote: »

By farmer- you have to be in possession of a "Green Cert" or a degree in Agricultural Science- having your own plot of vegetables does not count...... Also if you wish to avail of farmers valuation (1/10 of open market price) the site has to be above 2 hectares in size, and without any dwelling or planning for one. Its not a simple case of, hey, I'm a farmer- I shouldn't pay any tax on this transaction........

So?

What do farmers do that makes them entitled to full inheritance whereas everyone else has to pay tax? Farmers pretty much get every tax break in the book.

Also I know someone who did one of those "Green Cert" courses you talk about. His dad owns about 500 acres and is far from poor. In fact, he drove up to Teagasc in his supped up Lancer and parked alongside Range Rovers etc. Plus, the course is part-time. It's a joke. Basically all the sons/daughters of the landed/FF voters turn up and get pissed.

That's real Ireland for ya.

Hazelnutter

Transferring a site is quite complicated. Apart from all the tax implications and mapping requirements, easements, rights of way and wayleaves may also be needed. Never as simple as you think ....

Jo King

katemc wrote: »

Does anyone know how to do a diy transfer of a site between family members without involving solicitors - have been on landregistry but cant see any info

Nothing to stop you doing it. Just draft a deed of transfer and apply for a registration of a new folio showing maps and the title documents. Do not forget about CGT and stamp duty.

Cantab.

Hazelnutter wrote: »

Transferring a site is quite complicated. Apart from all the tax implications and mapping requirements, easements, rights of way and wayleaves may also be needed. Never as simple as you think ....

Simplicity has nothing to do with it. It's the principle that matters.

And besides -- nearly all businesses have accountants to advise and file tax returns. Farms included.

johnnyskeleton

I don't get why you want to do this.

Assuming you are say a parent and want to transfer to your child (if you are the child, the changes are easily made), you either want:

1) to have legal certainty about the transfer so that the child can sell it on if they wish to do so

2) to have an informal arrangement whereby the child can build on your land.

If you want the 1st option (so that they can feel secure in their title, can get a mortgage from a bank, can re-sell it on) they will have to either use a solicitor or get title insurance. There are so many things that can go wrong in a conveyance, it's not just a simple matter of changing the name on a piece of paper. A bank will not lend on foot of a DIY conveyance, and the future is uncertain if they should choose to sell the property on at a later date. It might transpire that title to the land never actually passed from you to your child, and (touch wood) should you predecease the child the land might get embroiled in a big family dispute. The biggest danger is that you could miss a tax liability which is a criminal offence.

If you simply want your child to have somewhere separate to live why not just let them live there i.e. there is no actual need to convey the land unless you want them to legally own it.

I'd disagree with Victor in that you are legally entitled to do the conveyance yourself if you wish, but to do this make sure you understand all the law in this area (and it's quite complicated) and also that you know the tax implications of the transfer.

If you can't afford a solicitor, contact your local legal aid board. They are unlikely to help but they might point you in the right direction.

mwexford

I agree with the posters who say this is an extremely complicated scenario, with legal and tax implications. Having come very close to a costly tax liability because of a change in the law, in a transfer between my husband and his brother, I would strongly advise you to get good advice, from a good accountant at least and you're going to find it difficult to avoid legal involvement.
Good luck with it.

The_Conductor

OP- you need a solicitor more so than an accountant (though obviously both of the parties involved in the transaction will need to furnish tax returns reflecting the transaction to the Revenue Commissioners within the prescribed timeframe).

dats_right

katemc wrote: »

Does anyone know how to do a diy transfer of a site between family members without involving solicitors - have been on landregistry but cant see any info

Yes, I do, but then I am a law graduate and a trainee solicitor. But the question is can a layman? In my opinion, in theory I suppose they can, but it really is fraught with difficulties and pitfalls as some of the other posters have already pointed out. Don't forget you'll also need a CA11, a Bankruptcy search against the disponer and a statutory dec of solvency by disponer this is in addition to a correctly drafted Deed of Transfer and correctly marked Land Registry Compliant Transfer Map(there are possible stamp duty implications unless you insert the correct statutory certificates into the Deed of Transfer), then if there is a mortgage on the property you will need the banks permission and a Deed of Partial Discharge, you will also need to draft Family Home Declarations along with exhibits. And these really are just a flavour of some of the considerations and necessitites, so if you think you can handle these, why don't you disregard the risks and be 'a have a go hero', give it a shot and report back, what's the worst that can happen? Other than creating a potentially worthless and unmarketable title, the potential for costly and lenghty litigation and the likelihood that you will probably have to involve a nasty solicitor to clear up your mess at fees likely to be at a multiple to what they would have charged in the first place!

Hazelnutter

Cantab. wrote: »

Simplicity has nothing to do with it. It's the principle that matters.

And besides -- nearly all businesses have accountants to advise and file tax returns. Farms included.

To what principle are you referring?

I know farmers have accountants - don't see what this has to do with transferring a site?!