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Studio User Survey

  • 21-10-2008 7:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭


    I'm just wondering how you guys who use studios get on. Please feel free to leave any comments.

    If you feel your experience is between options, click both.

    Please do the Poll. Cheers.

    'How was your Recording Studio Experience' Poll 15 votes

    The Studio brought our music to life, Fantastic!
    0% 0 votes
    Very Good, sounds as good as what's out there from Irish bands
    40% 6 votes
    Good, sounds like a good Demo or maybe a B-side.
    6% 1 vote
    Alright, could have done more or less the same at home though.
    20% 3 votes
    Are you jokin ? Sure it's a Digi 002 (or similar) in a garage?
    26% 4 votes
    Disaster, sounds naff ....
    6% 1 vote


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    On reflection I should have put another category -

    7. Studio? Sure don't I have my own.

    8. I don't need no steenkin' Studio ...

    I see people are looking but not voting.

    Please let us know about your Studio experiences.

    I recall shortly after I started in Studios the time I erased a whole album Mid Production ....
    In those days we used 2 inch tape which was expensive, so if the client didn't want to buy it, it got reused.

    We used have a Box where we'd put the 'To Be Erased' tapes in and every so
    often I'd erase them.

    There was this Producer using the studio and, for what ever reason, he decided to store his session in that Box.....

    THAT only happened once ....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    i guess most people on here have there own setup,maybe they have never been to a studio to record because they do it at home


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭unclebill98


    emmm, not sure about the digi002 joke Paul :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Dagon


    I know there are some great studios in this country, but unfortunately they don't always have much interest in the progressive/power metal area, so for now, resorting to DIY for drums and guitars is the best option for me. It's also a bit cheaper in the long run. But I'm hoping to record all vocals in a studio...

    A band I'm singing with at the moment recorded a demo in a studio last May, and the producer just wasn't tuned in to what they were trying to achieve, and wanted to tell them how they should sound rather than listen and understand what the band wanted. The result?... the guys are now re-recording all guitar and bass parts using Guitar Rig! And it all has to be remixed. I think the band was just unlucky in this situation, and I'm sure this isn't representative of all producers attitudes to metal music.

    This is the kind of production I want, and it can be a bit of a challenge:
    http://www.last.fm/music/Rhapsody/Symphony+of+Enchanted+Lands/Land+of+Immortals
    http://www.last.fm/music/Sonata+Arctica/Ecliptica/Blank+File
    http://www.last.fm/music/Sonata+Arctica/Ecliptica/Kingdom+for+a+Heart
    http://www.last.fm/music/Stratovarius/Visions/The+Kiss+of+Judas


    If there are producers in Ireland who are open to working with a band sounding like that, and are willing to try and get that sound, then I'd like to hear about them :) Especially for vocals!

    As it is, I seem to get pretty ok results using my own limited knowledge, along with decent drum samples, good synths and decent amp modelling software such as Revalver MKIII. Looking around online, I've found lots of people getting studio quality results using this combination, and there are plenty of people in forums prepared to help, and give advice on mix and EQ.

    That said, if I was in a contemporary rock band such as The Blizzards, there are some very good studios available who understand these bands, and know how to get the sound they want. I guess band and producer need to think alike somewhat, and the producer sometimes needs to be like an extra member of the band.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 308 ✭✭tweeky


    Was the "Producer" the Engineer who came with the studio or did you seek him out? Seems like there was a breakdown in communication re. sounds etc. and something you should have worked on together to achieve the desired effect. If Your gear was soso or his recording skills not great, nothing should stop you using gtr rig in the studio, whatever cracks the nut. Drums in alot of your examples are triggered, did you play these track to the producer prior to recording? Vocals should be a no brainer, Performance, timing, tuning!
    Sometimes the Producer isn't the guy with your favourite bands t-shirt on!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    Dagon wrote: »
    I know there are some great studios in this country, but unfortunately they don't always have much interest in the progressive/power metal area,

    Dagon,
    Good points.
    That also adds up with what I've seen insofar, despite what one might think the guys who make a niche seem to be the ones that are prospering as far as I can see.

    I think maybe Trackmixstudio might be the place for you!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    I think it's really a choice of producer rather than specifically "a studio". A studio's just a place to work, most engineers will make something sound the way you want if you ask.

    I had a listen to Rhapsody-immortal soul. If you could play, sing and arrange like that it shouldn't be too hard to make it sound like that it's pretty straight forward stuff. Personally, what I heard sounds a little too tight and polished, those strings and sampled drums makes it sound like a Scandanavian Eurovision entry.

    I'll say one thing though, you'd have a hell of a time trying to get vocals like that without some serious front end and a good room. Singing like that would be very hard work for a poor old 002's mic amps IMO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Dagon


    studiorat wrote: »
    I had a listen to Rhapsody-immortal soul. If you could play, sing and arrange like that it shouldn't be too hard to make it sound like that it's pretty straight forward stuff. Personally, what I heard sounds a little too tight and polished, those strings and sampled drums makes it sound like a Scandanavian Eurovision entry.

    You see this is the problem we're facing; I want it to sound like that :) I know it's not in fashion, and it's not contemporary and might not hit the charts anytime soon, but that's ok. Personally I like the music to be as tight and polished as possible. A lot of the bands who are popular at the moment have some good tunes, but the production actually puts me off sometimes because it's so raw, and minimalistic, and I really don't like the drum sounds. It could do with some nice layers, more synths, smoother vocal production and multi tracked vocals, and a nice clean, tight drum production. But hey, that's just my opinion. And certainly, most people probably don't agree :cool: But Karl Groom at the Thin Ice studios in Surrey is a man who understands our plight, so that may be where I'll need to go...
    http://www.thinicestudios.co.uk/
    http://www.thresh.net/karlgroom.htm

    I'll say one thing though, you'd have a hell of a time trying to get vocals like that without some serious front end and a good room. Singing like that would be very hard work for a poor old 002's mic amps IMO.

    Well if you know anyone who can help us record them I would be grateful! I tried and failed last time myself... the vocals are quite loud, with a big range.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    130 + Views and only 8 pollers?

    Have yez never been in a studio as Sean suggested?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    Dagon wrote: »
    You see this is the problem we're facing; I want it to sound like that :) I know it's not in fashion, and it's not contemporary and might not hit the charts anytime soon, but that's ok. Personally I like the music to be as tight and polished as possible.
    http://www.thinicestudios.co.uk/
    http://www.thresh.net/karlgroom.htm

    Well if you know anyone who can help us record them I would be grateful! I tried and failed last time myself... the vocals are quite loud, with a big range.

    It seems to me you are making up the "problem you are facing" yourself. If you want it to sound like that you ask someone to make it sound like that. Make sure everybody's on the same page before you start. Any producer or engineer would see it as a challenge to do so.

    Tradition usually dictates that a band and a PRODUCER would usually have done some rehearsal beforehand and everybody would know what's going to happen. In a situation where you are just booking a studio and wandering in off the street as it were it's up to you guys to do the Producing.

    The only difference between that studio on the link and any other is it has a website that looks like it's from KERRANG! So don't believe the hype, the problem isn't the studio staff liking or not liking your music it's the fact you as the producer/client started and left without sorting it out.

    I could arrange for a vocal recording session for that kind of thing. I've a better rig IMO.

    If you can perform like that, the thing will practically mix itself. I completely understand the music btw. I'm no stranger to dense arrangements with string sections, guitars etc. Usually of a more classical bent, if it's not played absolutely spot on it's never going to sit properly as a mix.

    What exactly happened in the studio? How long were you tracking for?

    Consider for a minute how much Rhapsody spend on one of those productions and how much you are spending before comparing aswell.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    studiorat wrote: »
    I could arrange for a vocal recording session for that kind of thing. I've a better rig IMO.

    I agree, your rig is superior.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Dagon


    studiorat wrote: »
    Make sure everybody's on the same page before you start. Any producer or engineer would see it as a challenge to do so. Tradition usually dictates that a band and a PRODUCER would usually have done some rehearsal beforehand and everybody would know what's going to happen. In a situation where you are just booking a studio and wandering in off the street as it were it's up to you guys to do the Producing.

    You're right. Perhaps the person who ended up producing the mentioned demo was more of an engineer who wanted to influence the band's sound. I actually wasn't in the studio with them, and I'm not the mainman in that band - I was just drafted in to do some vocals. But they're young enough lads and don't have much experience in the studio.

    When it comes to my own band, where I'm writing, I would probably have tried to do more to get the sound I wanted, and worked more with the producer as you've said. I was just relating those guys studio experience as per the OP.


    The only difference between that studio on the link and any other is it has a website that looks like it's from KERRANG! So don't believe the hype, the problem isn't the studio staff liking or not liking your music it's the fact you as the producer/client started and left without sorting it out.

    Well actually... the only difference between that studio and countless others is that I'd much prefer the sound they get to most other studios in the UK for this type of music. How do I know that? Because I own many albums that were produced there, and many albums that weren't. This studio has a remarkable history and probably some of the best modern productions to come out of the UK IMO. You may not like the music, but listen to the latest Dragonforce album, it's can't have been easy to get those results.
    I could arrange for a vocal recording session for that kind of thing. I've a better rig IMO.

    Better than Thin Ice? I may be interested in working with ya :) I will send you some samples of choirs and vocal layers that I want to get, and if you are interested we can do something.
    If you can perform like that, the thing will practically mix itself.

    I will send you a PM so you can hear a performance. You can decide for yourself.
    I completely understand the music btw. I'm no stranger to dense arrangements with string sections, guitars etc. Usually of a more classical bent, if it's not played absolutely spot on it's never going to sit properly as a mix.

    I agree. Which is why I like to set with my recording software for hours on end, retaking various guitar or synth parts to get it exactly perfect, and to get the timing exact for each note. I take as long as it needs...
    What exactly happened in the studio? How long were you tracking for?

    The lads were tracking for a couple of days.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    ^^^
    Heard the tracks.
    The Dagon fella can certainly sing, do doubt...

    I think a studio is about the people running it...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 308 ✭✭tweeky


    +1
    In a world where the gear is nearly all the same the only variable is the talent
    and temperament of the operator.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Dagon


    Yes, getting back on topic... I think it's about the individual who runs the studio, and is dealing directly with the artist. Once they have an understanding of the artist, and the music that he/she wants to create... and a sense of openess, then the problem is solved :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭el_tiddlero


    Dagon wrote: »
    Yes, getting back on topic... I think it's about the individual who runs the studio, and is dealing directly with the artist. Once they have an understanding of the artist, and the music that he/she wants to create... and a sense of openess, then the problem is solved :pac:

    hmm, i can dig that.
    My experience with a studio was ok, fair to middling really. Sure, we got some tracks down, sure they sounded ok, but there was just a whole lot missing from it - and we, being without any experience of such things, didn't know what was missing or how to go about getting it in there. To be fair to our producer/engineer, she was good to us and tried to help us understand how to ask for what we wanted. That's the tricky part imo, you may know that you don't like something, but you don't know what to ask for to get it to sound how you DO want it..
    Overall though, i think you pretty much need to write off your first studio experience as a learning curve. Especially as most bands starting out will just book 1, maybe 2 sessions to get a few tracks down to see what they come out like - as opposed to meeting producers, rehearsing for them (will a producer even take time out to do this??) and completely nailing down a plan of action before they even pick a day to record on.
    Looking back now, i would for one, ask the producer to come see us practice the songs we intended to record so they could get a feel for the track - or at least get them copies of rough demos somehow so that they wouldn't be coming to it cold. I would also set out a concrete timetable for what should be finished by when so as to try and keep some semblance of organisation to the operation. It might have also helped us if we had staggered when each person needed to be there to lessen the distraction factor, although that could take away some of the fun of the process..
    That way at least, you would feel well prepared and hopefull that you will come out with something worthwhile for your cash, which, after all should be everyone's goal given that it's not cheap.
    Having said that, i would be interested to use a studio again, but this time i'd be more careful to commincate effectively with the producer beforehand in order to ensure success. It's like anything really, the more pre-production you do, the better the finished product will be.

    oh, and i took the poll!! ;)


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,379 ✭✭✭fitz


    Tbh Dagon, that's all the producers job, not the studio owner.
    You have to have someone acting as a producer who has been at the rehearsals and as mentioned is on the same page as the artist. The producer should also be organised and have some form of timetable laid out, so everyone know exactly what's going to happen in studio. But most importantly, they have to have a good relationship with the artist, and know what needs to be done in order to get the best out of each performer involved in the project. They should also be able to communicate what they want to the recording/mixing engineers (preferrably in advance of the sessions) in order to achieve what they're looking for. This has nothing to do with the studio unless you're employing them to produce as well as just record/mix.

    Artists pushing ahead without this in place is, I believe, the biggest reason for disappointments when it comes to recording. It doesn't matter if it's the artist themselves that's gonna play that role, as long as they actually prepare, put the effort into it and they're organised.


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