What will the economic downturn mean for DTT?

Elmo

Both RTE and TV3 have reported cutbacks. RTE executives have taken a 17% pay cut and according to the Irish Times "There will a review of all third party purchases and procurement process and several capital programmes have been suspended." While TV3 have reduced their staff by 15 and their weekend news has gone as has their Nightly News on Friday nights (Replaced by the political party).

So the question we have to ask how does Boxer look now. Will we be seeing ads for the new service in 2009 as planned? or is 2012 being pushed back to 2015?

Foggy43

I suppose we have to wait and see how Communicorp, Boxer Sweeden and BT Ireland fare during this present crisis. We are not due to hear anything from them till January 2009.

Please correct me if I am wrong but isn't DTT fully in the hands of the private sector now? Are RTENL a plc or belong to the tax payer?

scath

Foggy43 wrote: »

I suppose we have to wait and see how Communicorp, Boxer Sweeden and BT Ireland fare during this present crisis. We are not due to hear anything from them till January 2009.

Please correct me if I am wrong but isn't DTT fully in the hands of the private sector now? Are RTENL a plc or belong to the tax payer?

Hard to know when we'll hear from Boxer. Haven't heard whether they've signed the contract with the BCI yet or not. They were to start in January 2009 but were told by RTÉ NL that the network RTÉ NL are upgrading for DTT won't be ready and reliable to earliest June 2009. Some of the communication equipment for DTT was ordered last year and the transmitter equipment will be delivered in January 2009.

Remember RTÉ are rolling out their own DTT multiplex with the rest of the network capacit leased out by RTÉ Nl to Boxer who'll put their subscription and multiplex mgt software on RTÉ NLs transmission network.

RTÉ Nl is still publically owned by the state. See: http://www.dtg.org.uk/news/news.php?class=countries&subclass=0&id=3139

I doubt DTT will be put off as the UK switchover is underway which puts the onus on us, and its something that Irish broadcasters will benefit from in terms of more channels from which to hold audiences offering different programme genres. The recession will probably not affect these plans already in place. The onus is on RTÉ because of its obligation in the Broadcasting (Amendement) Act 2007, recession or not and ComReg will want spectrum back also due to the same and efficiencies from switchover

DMC

I think the goalposts have changed since the awarding of the contract.

With the credit crunch and such, I wonder how difficult it will be for Boxer to raise and release the necessary capital to launch this service.

scath

DMC wrote: »

I think the goalposts have changed since the awarding of the contract.

With the credit crunch and such, I wonder how difficult it will be for Boxer to raise and release the necessary capital to launch this service.

I think fair point DMC, so DTT will probably go ahead for the reasons I stated above.

Boxer, hmm, the think is though that Boxer's parent companies are not as prone to the credit crunch as other operators, nor would the other two contenders have been as they are a while in the game.

But in Boxer's case, Boxer AB's profits can be used to finance the Irish and Danish deployments and O'Brien is quiet cash rich. No doubt his assets will be making less profits as ad sales are down etc, and share values. But I think Boxer have the financial base from which to raise the capital.

Boxer Ireland and Danmark are basically expansion strategies to grow outside Sweden into an international DTT company. That would be their strategy I would imagine. So I think they'll weather the current situation and hope to make it back over the later part of the decade of the contract when the economic situation should be improving.

So my guess is they won't be affected by the current economic climate unlike a totally new company would be.

DMC

Perhaps you are right, they have the cash in their back pockets, but a study released in Britain today indicted that people are considering revising their pay-tv options, and can see growth for Freeview. What that means over here is that Boxer could be launching in the middle of an economic downturn, and surely that's not the best time to do so; getting people to subscribe to a new service and spend money on new kit.

Contract negotiations with the BCI can take a long time, if radio is anything to go by, and then when they do sign, its only a matter of days before launch.

I would be confident in the launch of the RTÉ/PSB mux, of at least the main services rebroadcast (a la whats on Three Rock and Clermont Carn now), but like you said, we have to hear more from Boxer, at least earlier in the new year.

Sponge Bob

RTENL advertised a number of Jobs on the radio yesterday including :eek: a Radio Spectrum Planner :eek: .

Our man in Havana

Will RTE roll out their FTA offerings regardless of whatever Boxer decide to do?

Elmo

Will RTE roll out their FTA offerings regardless of whatever Boxer decide to do?

As I have said before right through out the discussion on DTT. RTE regardless of how many stations they provide must role out DTT as this has to happen by 2012.

Perhaps we would be better with RTE 1, 2, TV3 and TG4 in HD then 20 stations we can receive via FreeSat, UPC and Sky.

So yes RTE must role out the current FTA stations on Digital.

Blaster99

Sweden hasn't spent the last 10 years just selling overpriced 3 bed semi-d's to each other and the banks are in good shape so I'd say they won't have any issues getting financing from that point of view. Whether it's worth investing in the Irish market is another topic. I'd say it is.

Elmo

Sweden hasn't spent the last 10 years just selling overpriced 3 bed semi-d's to each other and the banks are in good shape so I'd say they won't have any issues getting financing from that point of view. Whether it's worth investing in the Irish market is another topic. I'd say it is.

And they have boxer which can only mean we can also start back to selling overpriced 3 bed semi-d's, I blame the overpriced 4 bed bungalows we have being dealin in

However RTE are scaling back their role out of their DAB services.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

As I have said before right through out the discussion on DTT. RTE regardless of how many stations they provide must role out DTT as this has to happen by 2012.

Perhaps we would be better with RTE 1, 2, TV3 and TG4 in HD then 20 stations we can receive via FreeSat, UPC and Sky.

So yes RTE must role out the current FTA stations on Digital.

The 2012 deadline for ASO is more of an EU recommendation than directive.

The real deadline is 17 June 2015 as decided at Geneva 2006, the date after which countries will no longer be required to protect the analogue services of neighbouring countries against interference and be able to freely use frequencies assigned for digital services. This date is generally viewed as an internationally mandated analogue switch-off date, at least along national borders. (useful DigiTAG link on ASO)

The people pushing for 2012 or earlier deadline for ASO are the mobile telecoms companies and of course governments for the financial gain from the digital dividend.

The BCI has stated "It's not written in stone," "It was the target date." In the current economic climate 2015 may be a more realistic date.

In some EU countries such as Poland the switchover will be 2015. (see attached)

Elmo

The 2012 deadline for ASO is more of an EU recommendation than directive.

The real deadline is 17 June 2015 as decided at Geneva 2006, the date after which countries will no longer be required to protect the analogue services of neighbouring countries against interference and be able to freely use frequencies assigned for digital services. This date is generally viewed as an internationally mandated analogue switch-off date, at least along national borders. (useful DigiTAG link on ASO)

The people pushing for 2012 or earlier deadline for ASO are the mobile telecoms companies and of course governments for the financial gain from the digital dividend.

The BCI has stated "It's not written in stone," "It was the target date." In the current economic climate 2015 may be a more realistic date.

In some EU countries such as Poland the switchover will be 2015. (see attached)

I love EU deadlines, or as they define them guidelines.

Still even with a 2015 RTE NL must role out DTT regardless of how many channels are available on it in the same way as they maintain Analogue with the current 4 services.

And will Boxer wait that long?

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

And will Boxer wait that long?

Will Boxer be running anything in 2009 let alone 2015?

extract from article in yesterday's Sunday Independent

Big stars and station stalwarts untouched by crunch
But there could yet be blood spilled on the studio floor as the recession takes its toll, writes Colum Kenny

Sunday October 26 2008

...

Recession means that plans for Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) could also come unstuck.

The Broadcasting Commission of Ireland has, in principle, awarded the Irish DTT franchise to a Swedish/Irish company, backed by Denis O'Brien, in order to provide extra new bundles of programming. A new Irish film channel is among other delights promised, but current conditions may not augur well for the future of DTT.

RTE must build a transmission system to deliver DTT to Irish homes. But it has yet to to reach agreement on terms with O'Brien's consortium Boxer. It could cost RTE €100m to build the planned system, and nobody is sure where that money can be found or how much Boxer will agree to pay for using it. There is a danger that RTE may have to borrow the cash, thus building up big debts for the station and possibly subsidising BOXER's private service with public money.

Eleven years ago, in 1997, RTE received just over €77m in TV licence fee payments from members of the public -- and earned €110m more by selling advertising space. By last year, those two streams of income had risen to more than €195m and €245m respectively. That was before the financial crisis, and already now RTE is trailing its projected income by €25m.

...

The part that stands out (RTE) possibly subsidising BOXER's private service with public money. :mad:
What next, the government bailing out hugely profitable Irish and foreign commercial banks with tax payers money? :rolleyes:
You just have to smile, RTE consortium lose out to the Boxer consortium (backed by telecoms giant BT and Denis O'Brien's Communicorp) for the 3 BCI commercial multiplexes who may have to be subsidised by the losing bidder.
Thankfully the contract is not yet signed.

byte

That just seems to be merely an assumption on the part of Colum Kenny of a worse-case scenario.

I'd say it's very unlikely that public money would be used to support Boxer.

watty

RTENL has bought the gear already to provide the Boxer Muxes...

The Cush

watty wrote: »

RTENL has bought the gear already to provide the Boxer Muxes...

The subsidising begins.

Elmo

How much will Boxer pay for the rental of this equipment?

And TV3 are fight hard to get some of RTE's license fee. What will TV3 be doing for this switch over? I mean their network isn't funded by the license fee!!!!!!!

byte

watty wrote: »

RTENL has bought the gear already to provide the Boxer Muxes...

Seems I'm wrong so!

Though I'd expect money to be recouped from Tx leasing.

channelsurfer

It will be interesting to see if the rte DTT FTA box will be a boxer "lite" version or a completly different one with a different epg containing the basic fta and nothing else.
I know its going to be mpeg4 but other than that I cant see boxer being too happy if rte boxes are competing with theirs on the same shop shelves.

Elmo

channelsurfer wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if the rte DTT FTA box will be a boxer "lite" version or a completly different one with a different epg containing the basic fta and nothing else.
I know its going to be mpeg4 but other than that I cant see boxer being too happy if rte boxes are competing with theirs on the same shop shelves.

What about all of the FTA television sets already on sale. The girl from UK Digital (at the BCI conference) stressed to point out the importants of telling people that they can get the Digital via different types of avenues. Freeview, Sky, STB, DVB ready TVs, Cable, FreeSat etc.

Wonder if Boxer will want this type of public promotion.


No I guess not.

The Cush

channelsurfer wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if the rte DTT FTA box will be a boxer "lite" version or a completly different one with a different epg containing the basic fta and nothing else.
I know its going to be mpeg4 but other than that I cant see boxer being too happy if rte boxes are competing with theirs on the same shop shelves.

There will not be an RTE FTA DTT box.
The channels on the RTE multiplex will be available FTA on any receiver or iDTV that meets the Irish DTT standard.
For viewers who wish to signup to Boxer's pay DTT service they will provide a set-top box (which will also receive the FTA channels) or for those who already have a DTT receiver / iDTV, Boxer has stated they will provide a CAM. (see Boxer's submission to the BCI)
There will be a commom EPG for all channels.

Elmo wrote: »

What about all of the FTA television sets already on sale.

Caveat emptor - you purchace at you own risk, nowhere have I seen any information displayed that these products will receive the Irish DTT service when it launches.
Retail outlets have been advised by their trade body CEDA "it is vital that retailers ensure that customers are given accurate information about televisions currently for sale"

DTT Receivers

A minimum specification for DTT receivers for the Irish Market has been developed and is available for download here.

Receivers on the Irish market will use the MPEG 4 compression standard which is being used in Estonia, Denmark, France, Hungary, Lithuania, Norway, Portugal, Slovenia, New Zealand and South Africa. More details are available from http://www.dvb.org/. This is different to the MPEG 2 compression standard used in the UK. Retailers should note that televisions with MPEG 2 tuners only, will not pick up the Irish DTT service when it develops.

The Consumer Electrical Distributors Association, CEDA, has issued the following information notes 1 and 2 to retailers.

Retailers are requested to ensure that iDTV’s on sale in Ireland will be compatible with the Irish DTT network, when it launches. In the meantime, it is vital that retailers ensure that customers are given accurate information about televisions currently for sale. Retailers are also urged to ensure that a sufficient range of receivers (including set top boxes, integrated digital televisions and personal video recorders) specified for use on the Irish DTT network are available to consumers for the launch of DTT services in Ireland.

Source: http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/National+DTT/Useful+Information.htm

Elmo

Am I wrong to assume that Boxer will let you keep your STB with FTA channels when your contract expires/when you stop paying Boxer Bills?

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

Am I wrong to assume that Boxer will let you keep your STB with FTA channels when your contract expires/when you stop paying Boxer Bills?

I guess that depends how they provide the receiver/CAM to their subscribers, sell or rent.

channelsurfer

There will not be an RTE FTA DTT box.
The channels on the RTE multiplex will be available FTA on any receiver or iDTV that meets the Irish DTT standard.

I was thinking of when in 2012 if the goverment want to meet their target they get rte to supply free boxes to pensioners etc or those with free tv licences??? isnt that scenario likely and they those boxes wont as such have the boxer epg or would they force boxer to supply them instead?

The Cush

channelsurfer wrote: »

I was thinking of when in 2012 if the goverment want to meet their target they get rte to supply free boxes to pensioners etc or those with free tv licences??? isnt that scenario likely and they those boxes wont as such have the boxer epg or would they force boxer to supply them instead?

I have not heard a whisper about supplying free or reduced cost equipment to OAP's etc. at digital switchover. The new Broadcasting Bill 2008(Seanad) makes no mention of a help scheme at analogue switch-off.

In the US they have a Cupon Program "the U.S. government will take requests from households for up to two $40 coupons for digital-to-analog converter boxes, these coupons may be redeemed toward the purchase of a digital-to-analog converter"
In the UK the Digital Switchover Help Scheme operates at the time of the region switchover, the providers (Sky, freeview or freesat) bid to supply equipment for the scheme. Equipment is then supplied for free or £40 depending on eligibility.

There won't be a Boxer epg, there will be a common epg for all channels free or pay. Will those people with the FTA service only, be able to view the programme details for the Boxer channels?, simple answer - don't know. We are only at the engineering test stage yet with no pay channels available.

Elmo

There won't be a Boxer epg, there will be a common epg for all channels free or pay. Will those people with the FTA service only, be able to view the programme details for the Boxer channels?, simple answer - don't know. We are only at the engineering test stage yet with no pay channels available.

It will make business sense for Boxer to have the subscription channels block but let people have access to the EPG. The test phase had the 4 Irish Channel in full but if you didn't have a box you could only get the other channels schedules. Should this not stand?

In the US they have a Cupon Program "the U.S. government will take requests from households for up to two $40 coupons for digital-to-analog converter boxes, these coupons may be redeemed toward the purchase of a digital-to-analog converter"

Yep even the US government gave a hand with switch over, that doesn't happen that often over there.

Sponge Bob

They never finished off the analogue network in the 50 years since they started building it, why should DTT be done by 2046 so ??

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

It will make business sense for Boxer to have the subscription channels block but let people have access to the EPG. The test phase had the 4 Irish Channel in full but if you didn't have a box you could only get the other channels schedules. Should this not stand?

Yes, let them see what there missing.:)