Traffic offence

damo86

Hi all,

Just want your opinion on this:

Recently had a accident where I ran into the back of somebody at traffic lights, this was due to an error on my behalf as I thought the person in front was executing a right turn but stopped when the lights turned amber.
I was slowing down but then maintained speed as I thought other was executing the right turn but it immediately stopped so I applied my brakes (was doing around 20mph) but due to very wet conditions and having no ABS the car immediately started to skid and didnt slow down thus going into the back of the car. The police arrived and took down our details, exchanged insurance details etc and we carried on our way. At the scene, the gardai told I was at fault..which is true and accepted.

This was last week, but today I got a traffic conviction in the post (driving without due care and attention) which means €80 fine and 2 points (more worried about the points tbh, its my first ones in my 5 years of driving!!:().
I was shocked and thought it was a bit cheeky, you'd think the insurance premium would be enough (I know, its not the point!).
Speed wasnt a issue here, It was a geniune error on observation but wouldnt think I should convicted for it.
Whats gets me, there was no mention of the conviction at the scene, not even a caution.

Would like to know your thoughts...could have a chance in appealing the conviction?

regards
damo

Zube

damo86 wrote: »

At the scene, the gardai told I was at fault..which is true and accepted.

Do you mean that you told them it was your fault? Out loud? If so, no chance of appealing anything, you've already admitted it.

R.O.R

damo86 wrote: »

Would like to know your thoughts...could have a chance in appealing the conviction?

Unlikely I'd say - you more or less admit in the original post that you were driving without due care and attention.

damo86

I admitted to causing the accident but not to driving to without due care and attention. But he never told me " I caution you with driving without due care and attention", wasn't even a mention of a conviction or anything, just told me that I was obviously at fault here.
Guessing it was my mistake for admitting, being driving for since 17 (22 now), and this was my first accident and even dealing with the gardai..havent really be taking it so well! Im a careful driver, dont speed...but it was a misjudgement and seemed to getting hammered for it! I suppose Ill just have to take it and move on!

Just on a side note: Was it harsh of the gardai to convict me, is this normal practice each time someone rams into somone?

TheNog

OP the notice you got is not a conviction at all. You can pay the fine at the Post Office if you wish but if you feel you were hard done by then don't pay it and let it go to court. You can explain the situation there if you wish however I would encourage you to seek advice from a solicitor first. The problem is if you go to court the fine and points could be higher.

damo86

If the appeal process involves the court...not worth the risk, 4 points is alot if I lose.
Cheers anyway

Anan1

OP - You can't really argue that you weren't driving without due care & attention, the facts speak for themselves. That said, i'd think of it more in terms of getting a ticket if I were you; it's really not the end of the world.

stesaurus

damo86 wrote: »

Hi all,

Just want your opinion on this:

Recently had a accident where I ran into the back of somebody at traffic lights, this was due to an error on my behalf as I thought the person in front was executing a right turn but stopped when the lights turned amber.

Never assume, you make an ass of you and......ah never mind:D

You're unlucky but it could have been a lot worse. Two penalty points is not much and they'll eventually expire.
Just thinking though, you should never admit liability at scene of accident. You're insurance company tell you this also.

Just put it down to experience and move on. No point appealing, it was your fault but could happen to anybody really!

Zube

damo86 wrote: »

Just on a side note: Was it harsh of the gardai to convict me, is this normal practice each time someone rams into somone?

It's not normal, they wouldn't usually have any evidence, as they wouldn't have the forensic teams out for a fender-bender like this. The only evidence they have is... your admission of responsibility, I'm afraid.

I got done for careless driving many years ago after a crash for the same reason: talked to a cop before talking to a solicitor. Solicitor told me to enter an "admitted and regretted", not waste the court's time with a defense, but that if I'd kept my mouth shut, they'd have had no case.

damo86

I guess I know next time...keep my mouth trapped shut!!

Guessing they convicted me to make a few bob!

Anan1

Zube wrote: »

The only evidence they have is... your admission of responsibility, I'm afraid.

I dunno, Zube, it could be argued that it's impossible to run into the back of the car in front while driving with due care & attention.

Clare_Guy

damo86 wrote: »

I guess I know next time...keep my mouth trapped shut!!

Guessing they convicted me to make a few bob!

i'd go to court, if i were you, only something like, 1 out of 8 traffic offence cases, that go to court, result in a conviction. The odds are in your favour.

juvenal

AFAIK it's just a fine and points, and not a conviction per se. I'm surprised this doesn't go on more, as you said you caused the accident and essentially admitted that you were guilty of driving without due care and attention.

I tapped a fellow in front of me in the US in heavy traffic on I-95 last year - I'd taken my eyes off the road for a second and rolled into him (schoolboy error late at night - in 'Drive' without acceleration for anyone that has driven an auto). He was cool about it, with minimal damage to bumpers, but when he tried to drive on, his exhaust came loose as the impact had obviously snapped the bracket. We had to call a tow truck and the police as a matter of course for insurance and to report it. The State Trooper was dead on, and explained he had to give me a ticket for the same offence as a matter of course, which I accepted, and paid the fine online.

The idea I believe is that if it wasn't for my carelessness then there wouldn't have been an accident, the other motorists wouldn't have been inconvenienced with the usual rubber-necking tailback, and the police and tow-truck would not have had to be called. No problem with that.

Usually in an accident like this, someone is to blame, so the ticket is just an acknowledgement that you caused the accident and the Gardai were called as a result of this. I know it was the US, but I vaguely recall that the notice indicated that paying the fine was not an admission of guilt, but just a payment of said fine. Perhaps it may say this on your notice.

I think that your insurance isn't affected until you get 4 penalty points, so just pay the fine, be careful out there, and you should be grand. Appealing it in court may result in an increase in fine and/or points.

juvenal

Clare Guy wrote:

i'd go to court, if i were you, only something like, 1 out of 8 traffic offence cases, that go to court, result in a conviction. The odds are in your favour.

He already admitted liability in the accident, what chance do you think he stands in court, unless the Garda in question doesn't show or it's dismissed on some rubbish technicality?

Why should he appeal it just because he might get away with it? So he can stick it to the man and not take responsibility for his actions? Bull.

He was at fault, he's admitted as much, and an €80 fine and two points is little price to pay for carelessness. It was an honest mistake, it could happen to anyone, but it's not without consequences.

If there were more motorists who paid their dues and held their hands up when caught breaking the law we wouldn't have as many spoofers trying to get off on some obscure technicality. This Irish mentality of "ah shure if you can get away with it it'll be grand, fair play to ye, ye beat the system" is BS, he erred, admitted as much, and is willing to take the hit unlike some people.

Personal responsibility is more important than looking for a way out and possibly blame someone else/the weather/the road/the government etc. If the roles were reversed would you advocate the party who caused the accident to try and get off scot-free?

Clare_Guy

juvenal wrote: »

He already admitted liability in the accident, what chance do you think he stands in court, unless the Garda in question doesn't show or it's dismissed on some rubbish technicality?

Why should he appeal it just because he might get away with it? So he can stick it to the man and not take responsibility for his actions? Bull.

He was at fault, he's admitted as much, and an €80 fine and two points is little price to pay for carelessness.

If there were more motorists who paid their dues and held their hands up when caught breaking the law we wouldn't have as many spoofers trying to get off on some obscure technicality. This Irish mentality of "ah shure if you can get away with it it'll be grand, fair play to ye, ye beat the system" is BS, he erred, admitted as much, and is willing to take the hit unlike some people.

Personal responsibility is more important than looking for a way out and possibly blame someone else/the weather/the road/the government etc. If the roles were reversed would you advocate the party who caused the accident to try and get off scot-free?

yeah, i'd still go to court... :P

he's not gonna get off scot-free, he'll still have to repair the other party's car and his own.

juvenal

Clare_Guy wrote: »

yeah, i'd still go to court... :P

On what grounds, or maybe you're happy to pay the legal fees involved with a day in court. :rolleyes:

Clare_Guy wrote: »

he's not gonna get off scot-free, he'll still have to the insurance company will repair the other party's car and his own, thus adding another little bit to the claims and contributing to driving up premiums for everyone

I think this may be closer to the truth.

DublinDilbert

juvenal wrote: »

The State Trooper was dead on, and explained he had to give me a ticket for the same offence as a matter of course, which I accepted, and paid the fine online.

The other reason for giving the ticket, is that once this happens it will be recorded on their system which insurance companies can access... hence the insurance companies can settle the claims really quickly and pay out the claim, without courts / layers (which saves lots of money too...)

juvenal

DublinDilbert wrote: »

The other reason for giving the ticket, is that once this happens it will be recorded on their system which insurance companies can access... hence the insurance companies can settle the claims really quickly and pay out the claim, without courts / layers (which saves lots of money too...)

Yeah, it basically justifies the officer's reason for attending the scene. It's a pain, but tbh it could've been a lot worse. The VA courts system have an online payment service so a couple of clicks and it's paid with the ol' CC.

Clare_Guy

juvenal wrote: »

On what grounds, or maybe you're happy to pay the legal fees involved with a day in court. :rolleyes:.

to avoid a conviction, yes

juvenal wrote: »

I think this may be closer to the truth.

assuming he goes through his insurer...

damo86

Thanks guys for the advice and reassurance etc, I think I've know already what to do..which is pay and behave!

Thankfully I had a no claims protection so the premium wont be affected as much. Unfortunately my 01 lupo is write off (not really a bad thing is it??:p).

cheers again
Damo

Yes, going to the insurer, dont think ive have 6 grand lying around.

@Junvenal I know your comment is true...but was uncalled for, cheers mate:rolleyes: