"Click yes to become Sonys bitch, and continue..."

humanji

Sony are updating their terms of service. The short version is, Sony own you and can do whatever they want. I highlighted the juicy parts, but I guess the whole article could of been highlighted.

From Gamespot:

Gamespot wrote:

While it has yet to be seen if the PlayStation Network is ready to handle the traffic that will accompany next week's launch of Little Big Planet and its sharing tools for user-generated content, Sony Computer Entertainment America has made sure its online service is ready to go from a legal standpoint.

Last week SCEA sent out amendments to its PlayStation Network terms of service and user agreement. PlayStation 3 and PlayStation Portable users will need to agree to the new rules if they want to play their games online, participate in Home, buy games from the PlayStation Store, subscribe to a game, or download a patch or other game update.

The amendments include a number of eyebrow-raising new provisions dealing with player privacy and user-created content. Under the "Code of Conduct" section, SCEA added a provision that players can't tell anyone their real names or "any other personally identifying information." The rule also applies to names of other people or businesses.

And while gamers can't go spreading their names around, the user agreement stats that Sony can share gamers' personal information with third parties "for the purpose of providing... access to PSN content." It does not specify if that content includes advertising as well as games, movies, and other downloadable offerings.

The code of conduct also now specifies that anyone who uses PSN gives SCEA "express consent to monitor and record" their activities, and that the company may do so as it sees fit. And while the terms state that SCEA can turn over user information like an Online ID and IP address to "the appropriate authorities," they also state there is no requirement or expectation that the company monitor or record any activity over the network, and that SCEA can remove content or communication from the service without notifying users.

That's not the only thing SCEA can do without notification (or consequence) under the new agreement.

"Some content may be provided automatically without notice when you sign into PSN," the agreement reads. "Such content may include automatic updates or upgrades which may change your current operating system, cause a loss of data or content or cause a loss of functionalities or utilities. You authorize SCEA to provide such content and agree that SCEA shall not be liable for any damages arising from provision of such content or maintenance services. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data located on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up."

Finally, SCEA added a new section on "user material and information" that allows the company to provide "others" with information about users' communication and gameplay over PSN. Further, the company can distribute or publish that information "for any legitimate business purpose" without payment to the users. The example given is for tournaments or ranking purposes.
The section also deals more directly with users' creations, which presumably includes everything from custom-made levels in Little Big Planet to songs penned using the Guitar Hero World Tour studio mode.

"To the extent permitted by law, you authorize and license SCEA a royalty free and perpetual right to use, distribute, copy, modify, display, and publish your User Material for any reason without any restrictions or payments to you or any third parties," the agreement states. "You further agree that SCEA may sublicense its rights to any third party, including its affiliates and subsidiaries. You hereby waive all claims, including any moral rights, against SCEA, its affiliates and subsidiaries for SCEA or any other third party's use of User Material to the extent permitted by applicable law."

Representatives with Sony did not return GameSpot's request for comment.

I guess I'm lucky I don't use my PS3 online.

Davei141

Giant who cares.

projectmayhem

Instead of being some huge conspiracy theory (which I assume you're getting at here), maybe it's down to Sony trying to scare people who play copied games in the wake of Gears2 et al. On top of that, I imagine they want to share gaming habits with developers to make sure good content is put on the PSN store...

Tallon

Who cares... what are you trying to hide humanji??:rolleyes:

humanji

I'm not getting it at being I'm not getting at it being a conspiracy, I'm getting at the fact that Sony have some cheek with some of these things. For example, if you make a level in Little Big Planet, then Sony can sell it and give you nothing. Do you honestly not care about that?

Also, and this I can't believe you don't care about. Sony can give all your details to ANYONE they want. Now, conspiracy theorists may go on about crazy NWO reasons to stop this, but a very real possibility is having your home and email accounts bombarded with spam. Junk filters don't always work and I don't want to have to continually filter out the actual mail from the promises of free money or a bigger penis myself.

That doesn't bother you? Do you like doing it or something?

Retr0gamer

All they would get from me is that I like to play Megaman 9 far more than is healthy for anyone.

Now if sony promised to stop making me update the blasted thing everytime I turn it on that takes 15 mins I'd be happier.

Tallon

humanji wrote: »

For example, if you make a level in Little Big Planet, then Sony can sell it and give you nothing. Do you honestly not care about that?

No
I'd be chuffed that someones playing my level

Sony can give all your details to ANYONE they want. Now, conspiracy theorists may go on about crazy NWO reasons to stop this, but a very real possibility is having your home and email accounts bombarded with spam. Junk filters don't always work

I've never had a problem with my filter, get hotmail

and I don't want to have to continually filter out the actual mail from the promises of free money or a bigger penis myself

be happy with your body........

humanji

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Now if sony promised to stop making me update the blasted thing everytime I turn it on that takes 15 mins I'd be happier.

Amen to that. And the same goes for not having to update a new game when you pop it into the machine.

Tallon wrote: »

No
I'd be chuffed that someones playing my level

So you've no problem people making money off your work and you not even getting a credit? You're an agents dream.

Tallon wrote: »

I've never had a problem with my filter, get hotmail

Hotmail is terrible for letting spam through. And besides, you should have to get spam at all.

Tallon wrote: »

be happy with your body........

You wouldn't say that if you'd seen mine. Damn, that's the second post today mentioning my penis.,

Stuxnet

projectmayhem

humanji wrote: »

For example, if you make a level in Little Big Planet, then Sony can sell it and give you nothing. Do you honestly not care about that?

Honestly, no. Do you want to pay Sony for a license to sell your levels? Did you think you'd make a tidy income with the game? Look at the years of work that goes into PC mods, and they make feck all. Just because it's on a console doesn't mean it can't be used as a selling point.

Sony aren't going to "sell" your levels as DLC anyway. They'll use it as a promotional tool. I'm sure they also want to make sure no one sells levels online themselves.

humanji wrote: »

but a very real possibility is having your home and email accounts bombarded with spam. Junk filters don't always work and I don't want to have to continually filter out the actual mail from the promises of free money or a bigger penis myself.

How in the name of jebus do you think it's in Sonys best interests to sell your details to spammers, who operate illegally in most cases? Sony have a reputation to try and maintain, and selling your details to someone isn't going to be one of those methods. Like I said, the details are more then likely polling how your playing habits work, and how much you spend online versus playing disc-based games, etc.

I hate to break it to you, but in the grand scheme of things, you're not actually worth all that much to Sony Corp., Inc.

humanji

projectmayhem wrote: »

Honestly, no. Do you want to pay Sony for a license to sell your levels? Did you think you'd make a tidy income with the game? Look at the years of work that goes into PC mods, and they make feck all. Just because it's on a console doesn't mean it can't be used as a selling point.

Counter Strike is an incredible successful mod that went commercial. Just because it's on a console doesn't mean it's worthless. And this clause also goes to anything in the future. Anything you put up on a PS3 or future versions automatically becomes property of Sony. Not even the developers of the software you could be modding get a say in it. That's not exactly good if you are planning on doing something like that.

projectmayhem wrote: »

Sony aren't going to "sell" your levels as DLC anyway. They'll use it as a promotional tool. I'm sure they also want to make sure no one sells levels online themselves.

But you can't sell your stuff online. Only Sony can. But the fact of the matter is that Sony have given themselves permission to sell anything you put up on their networks. Would you really be happy if Boards sold all your posts, became incredibly rich and you got nothing, not even a thank you? (well, maybe not for mine, but imagine they did it to Pighead! Then you'd care. :pac: )

projectmayhem wrote: »

How in the name of jebus do you think it's in Sonys best interests to sell your details to spammers, who operate illegally in most cases? Sony have a reputation to try and maintain, and selling your details to someone isn't going to be one of those methods. Like I said, the details are more then likely polling how your playing habits work, and how much you spend online versus playing disc-based games, etc.

But they phrase it as "Personal Details", not just gaming habits. That's the problem. How many of you have credit card details on your accounts? By aggreeing to the new terms, Sony have permission to give them to whoever they want. Granted, they won't (I hope to god they're not that stupid), but they are within their rights to if they want to.

There's plenty of legal companies that buy peoples details for legal reasons. Sony won't damage their reputation buy selling them. Sure they're within the law and their rights to. People will complain and still buy playstations and within a couple of days of it happening people will forget.

projectmayhem wrote: »

I hate to break it to you, but in the grand scheme of things, you're not actually worth all that much to Sony Corp., Inc.

Then how are they in business? They've made billions off of it's customers. They don't have to do anything to please anyone, their objective is to get as much money as they possibly can. It's what companies do.

Now, I'm sure little will come of it, but you're all willing to sign a contract without reading it. In the grand scheme of things they're a company trying to provide a service. But they seem to be over stepping their bounds a little. Like if one of you puts your PSN name here, they can see that as associating it with your Boards account which may have your name somewhere on the site, and suddenly you're banned from the network. That wouldn't bother you?

And I've just realised that due to the terms of the original agreement, you've already agreed to these new terms without even reading them. So have I! If I hadn't already wrapped my playstation in tinfoil, I'd be worried. :pac:

Seriously though, we're being set up to be ripped off if Sony every felt like doing it. Sony don't give a **** about any of us. For every disgruntled person who refuses to buy Sony products, ten more line up to take their place. They don't have to treat people as people, they just need to get as much money from us as they can before we die. Just be aware of what you're signing in future.

partyatmygaff

PS3 owners are just numbers, the more there is the better it is for sony.

And tbh i couldnt give a crap what sony do to their T&Cs, all i care about is that they keep making playstation consoles and great games.

Selling your "Precious" name and personal details to illegal 3rd Parties would not only KILL their reputation and open up thousands of lawsuits but it would make them so little money (Relative to a big multinational corp. like sony) that it would just be stupid.


Quit the conspiracy theories and start playing your PS3.


BTW Anyone sad enough or that worried about their precious identity and decided to boycott PSN is just well... sad

humanji

Oh and another important point is that Sony can upload anything they want to your unit and if it bricks, they're not liable. Granted, they're no Microsoft, but if yours broke down, do you really want to have to pay to have it repaired because of something that had nothing to do with you?

Hell we're all paying for the governments f*ck ups and most of us didn't even vote for them.

humanji

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Selling your "Precious" name and personal details to illegal 3rd Parties would not only KILL their reputation and open up thousands of lawsuits but it would make them so little money (Relative to a big multinational corp. like sony) that it would just be stupid.


Quit the conspiracy theories and start playing your PS3.


BTW Anyone sad enough or that worried about their precious identity and decided to boycott PSN is just well... sad

As I said, there's legal companies that legitametly buy your details. I'm not worried about identiy theft, I'm worried about being sent constant crap.

And for the record, I'm not going to boycott or anything. I just wanted to point out what none of you read.

whiterebel

I think Humanji has a point. Sony are changing the rules after the fact, and if you don't like it, sod off and don't use one of the consoles much vaunted selling points: online content. Even Micro$oft haven't pulled a stunt like that to my knowledge. I will send an email to Sony about this too. If one gets away with this, they will all be at it.

steviec

humanji wrote: »

Oh and another important point is that Sony can upload anything they want to your unit and if it bricks, they're not liable. Granted, they're no Microsoft, but if yours broke down, do you really want to have to pay to have it repaired because of something that had nothing to do with you?

I find that particular "conspiracy" amusing since it was actually a selling point of the Wii before it came out, that the console would 'surprise' you with content it downloaded overnight to improve your user experience.

The only reason this stuff is being discussed is that they changed it. I very much doubt the agreement for using XBL or Steam or any other online service is very diffferent. There's nothing sinister about it at all, they've just updated it to bring it in line with new fields (ie user generated content) that they hadn't previously anticipated.

One scenario - you can take any photo you want and stick it in your little big planet level. If somebody ends up putting child porn on there, Sony will want to be covered to send all of their details to the appropriate authority.

Another scenario - Sony will no doubt be wanting to show off user created in their advertising for LBP. I could easily see situations where they want to send videos to gametrailers or even for TV ads, which may contain collages of dozens of user created levels that they recorded - they want to be able to do this without the overheads of contacting every single level creator and waiting for them all to respond without giving permission.

noodler

Sony giving your credit card details to someone?

For what conceivable purpose? They'd have to be criminals to do this-the only case I can imagine is if you were a suspect in some kind of illegal activity and the they were handing them over to the authorities.

AtomicHorror

humanji wrote: »

Sony are updating their terms of service. The short version is, Sony own you and can do whatever they want. I highlighted the juicy parts, but I guess the whole article could of been highlighted.

From Gamespot:



I guess I'm lucky I don't use my PS3 online.

You're that scared of advertisers?

AtomicHorror

noodler wrote: »

Sony giving your credit card details to someone?

For what conceivable purpose? They'd have to be criminals to do this-the only case I can imagine is if you were a suspect in some kind of illegal activity and the they were handing them over to the authorities.

Hard to imagine what sort of illegal activity one could commit through PSN...

Shanegggg

I know everyone will always go on about how "if you've nothing to hide it isn't a problem" business, but personally, I don't like being continuously monitored and logged about my activities. As I said, like everyone else, I have nothing to hide and sure its practically impossible to do anything illegal with the ps3 anyways, but when you unwillingly become a marketing statistic for sony just because your using your own ps3 they've over stepped the line.

Wonder what the data commissioner has to say on the issue!

Don't much like the whole "we can upload anything to your hardrive and and if it breaks it tough" either!

Jst my 2¢

projectmayhem

Shanegggg wrote: »

I don't like being continuously monitored and logged about my activities.

You're not going to be monitored. Some bloke isn't sitting in front of a monitor checking what Shanegggg is up to today... you're a statistic.

Shanegggg wrote: »

Wonder what the data commissioner has to say on the issue!

Ask him. Though I imagine the argument from Sony would be that while hardware is yours, you only ever buy a license to use software.

humanji wrote: »

But you can't sell your stuff online. Only Sony can. But the fact of the matter is that Sony have given themselves permission to sell anything you put up on their networks. Would you really be happy if Boards sold all your posts, became incredibly rich and you got nothing, not even a thank you? (well, maybe not for mine, but imagine they did it to Pighead! Then you'd care. :pac: )

For the record I wouldn't care what they did with Pigheads posts

As for boards selling my posts... it's their site. No, I wouldn't be happy but I don't have much comeback as I never signed an agreement for them to NOT sell my stuff. My only real argument is that boards would distance itself from offensive material... but would sell it if it's good (which it always is ).

I imagine you can have the same argument as Sony, but it's redundant as they won't be selling your LBP content.

humanji wrote: »

But they phrase it as "Personal Details", not just gaming habits. That's the problem. How many of you have credit card details on your accounts? By aggreeing to the new terms, Sony have permission to give them to whoever they want. Granted, they won't (I hope to god they're not that stupid), but they are within their rights to if they want to.

Personal details is one thing, credit card details is another. They want to say that 70% of people from Ireland play games from 2pm-6pm and like sports games, and sell that data to advertisers.... not get someone to sell you viagra.

humanji wrote: »

Then how are they in business? They've made billions off of it's customers. They don't have to do anything to please anyone, their objective is to get as much money as they possibly can. It's what companies do.

Yes but there's social responsibility. They delayed their biggest title of the year, LBP, because people were upset about one song.

humanji wrote: »

That wouldn't bother you?

Yes... but I accept that it won't happen.

Nick_oliveri

Wow im amazed you got so much jip Humanji. Nobody bothers their hole to read T&Cs anymore, whether it be signing on an internet forum or other "free" services.

People give less of a **** when its thrown at you every time you turn on your machine and it has to update firmware. Although i sympathise with Sony seeing as its going to become a myspace or bebo fad when home or LBP or whatever comes out and **** like bullying, user created avatars or racism will be an issue. This is a a step in the wrong direction and if they can charge for user created levels without paying the creator, well thats kind of poo.

Another thing that i hope you all have taken into account is the Ps3's browser, this could be used for capitalistic advert research, reading yo emails and any sites you may visit etc, although this is done already with the recent Big brother ISP ****e that happened last year.

Its not cool, its not for security or any other illusion that most of you will have came up with to excuse or ignore these activities. Its for the benefit of revenue and who they "share" or SELL the information to.

One scenario - you can take any photo you want and stick it in your little big planet level. If somebody ends up putting child porn on there, Sony will want to be covered to send all of their details to the appropriate authority.

The exact same arguement that was used for the Big brother ISP's law thats in effect now, a complete heartstring puller to excuse this bull****. Could you tell me the statistics for pedophiles on the PSN network versus normal users? Or the statistics of pedophiles that will actually upload such content to...lol LBP....

projectmayhem wrote:

Yes but there's social responsibility. They delayed their biggest title of the year, LBP, because people were upset about one song.

No my dear, they did that to avoid an event similar to the danish cartoons fiasco.

Edit:

"To the extent permitted by law, you authorize and license SCEA a royalty free and perpetual right to use, distribute, copy, modify, display, and publish your User Material for any reason without any restrictions or payments to you or any third parties," the agreement states. "You further agree that SCEA may sublicense its rights to any third party, including its affiliates and subsidiaries. You hereby waive all claims, including any moral rights, against SCEA, its affiliates and subsidiaries for SCEA or any other third party's use of User Material to the extent permitted by applicable law."

AHH FFS. Really? Are you really that ****ing desperate?
Sooo greedy greedy greedy greedy.....

KTRIC

I'm their bitch anyway

Bastards....

Kashkai

humanji wrote: »

Junk filters don't always work and I don't want to have to continually filter out the actual mail from the promises of free money or a bigger penis myself.

What, I can get free money and a bigger penis? Yippee, where do I sign up? :D:D

Humanji, we are all just giant batteries enslaved in Sony's matrix. Maybe one day Bill "NEO" Gates will free us from this matrix but until then get with the programme or some strange men called agents will come knocking and will put some mechanical worm type thing in your bellybutton :eek:

humanji

noodler wrote: »

Sony giving your credit card details to someone?

For what conceivable purpose? They'd have to be criminals to do this-the only case I can imagine is if you were a suspect in some kind of illegal activity and the they were handing them over to the authorities.

Well, you've given them the legal right to do it, if they want to. I didn't say they would, just that now, they can do it.

AtomicHorror wrote: »

You're that scared of advertisers?

Have you not seen the Domestos ads? Those thing make my skin crawl. And lets not mention the Hallifax ads. Damn, too late! :eek:

projectmayhem wrote: »

For the record I wouldn't care what they did with Pigheads posts

You know that's going to break his little heart.

projectmayhem wrote: »

As for boards selling my posts... it's their site. No, I wouldn't be happy but I don't have much comeback as I never signed an agreement for them to NOT sell my stuff. My only real argument is that boards would distance itself from offensive material... but would sell it if it's good (which it always is ).

Maybe they do. It would explain the large amount of money they got recently... <_< >_>

projectmayhem wrote: »

I imagine you can have the same argument as Sony, but it's redundant as they won't be selling your LBP content.

That's just low. I haven't even made anything and you're putting me down.
[/quote]

Stuxnet

what a terrible thread,
ill gladly be sony's bitch they give me hours of endless fun,

stevenmu

I'm not worried about this. I signed over all my personal details to google years ago anyway, if sony wants anything they can go talk to them about it.



Tbh it is slightly worrying though, there's a definite trend towards these types of "we own your soul" EULAs by a lot companies out there. But realistically there's very little chance that much of them will be acted upon, they're really an attempt by the companies involved to indemnify themselves from anything that could possibly ever happen. The general consensus among legally educated people is that none of the draconian parts will ever see the inside of a court room because there is very little chance that a court would actually enforce them, it's far more likely the whole EULA would be thrown out the window.

KTRIC

I don't think they really looked into this properly. In Germany its illegal to listen in, monitor or track the movement of people.

They're leaving themselves open to a huge court battle if they go ahead with this.

penguinpoppers

Even though this probably wont effect any of us too much (hopefully). I have to agree with humanji and say that it is bull**** that sony would have the nerve to think they have the right to give our ''personal infomation'' to anybody they like.does this mean that technically they can give our credit card details to their friends and its ok?
Its not a huge deal but its bad press sony doesnt need right now.

noodler

They wont do anything with your credit card details.

What the hell are some of the posts here about?