IPTV

d8player

Eircom are making a push next year with IPTV. Any idea if UPC will do anything to counter?

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/11636/

bk

From this article it sounds like Eircom have no idea what they are doing yet. They haven't even decided yet if they are doing real IPTV or delayed VoD!!!

UPC will have to do very little to counter this, bump their BB speeds again to push them well over what DSL can offer and perhaps start to offer HD and VoD.

Cable is a far better platform for delivering TV services, including IPTV and VoD, then DSL.

Really there seems to be little threat to UPC from this. Frankly UPC is a far bigger threat to Eircom (with their high speed and cheap phone and BB packages), then the other way around. In the TV arena Sky and Freesat are the big threat to UPC.

BTW I actually have IPTV from Smart over DSL, Smart are way ahead of Eircom with IPTV service. The service is ok, but really doesn't live up to the hype, Sky and Freesat is far better.

Killgore Trout

Have IPTV with magnet - it's pretty poor despite delivering over Fibre to the home (I guess it's the same product they deliver over their DSL solutions). They don't broadcast in widescreen so you can see the RTE logos etc cropped, and you either have to stretch the image out of proportion or suffer the black bars at the sides. The compression riddles the picture with artefacts - especially with stuff like football. Last time i checked they had a selection of movies on VOD which I never heard of and didn't bother with.

I can't imagine Eircom (árse/elbow) doing much better - especially over DSL.

I'm going to look into Sky HD.

watty

Eircom's IPTV will be be a poor copy of Sat/Cable. Very little VOD.

Without a big VOD catalogue ther point of IPTV is for a DSL operator to compete with Cable/Sat TV.

Scheduled TV can use same source at exchange. VOD needs a playout server at exchange or Unicast back to HQ to a central playout server.

Also you need 20Mbps or quality, 2 set boxes and Internet is an issue.

It's unlikely to be better than Magnet who abandoned DSL based IPTV due to small numbers on LLU exchange able to get enough speed.

Given Gredit Crunch and suspension of Babcock & Brown Shares, it's doubtful that eircom can roll out IPTV significantly.

It's hard to see how they can make money as VOD content is expensive to buy & deliver and ordinary TV competes poorly with cable/Satellite.

bk

IPTV can be impressive, AT&T's U-verse service in the US looks very impressive and has some very impressive features. They are certainly trying their best with a limited platform.

However Verizon has the much more impressive platform with real FTTH.

Here in Ireland it seems that the IPTV providers are going to try catch up TV service to sell IPTV. Basically this lets you view any show, shown on any channel in the last 24 hours. But I don't think it will be enough.

dhaumi

I'm also skeptical with Eircom being able to deliver IPTV. I used to have it in France. I thought the quality was very good (close enough to DTT). I first had it when I had a 8 Mbps connection (5 Mbps for internet + 3 Mbps for IPTV).
Now the MPEG4 codec is being used to provide IPTV to people who are too far from a LLU exchange (and to enable high definition channels). Supposedly, this codec would only require 1.7 Mbps. No idea about the quality loss...
I'm thinking this is do-able for Eircom, the question remains will they have the money to do it and most of all will it be worth it?

bk

dhaumi wrote: »

I'm also skeptical with Eircom being able to deliver IPTV. I used to have it in France. I thought the quality was very good (close enough to DTT). I first had it when I had a 8 Mbps connection (5 Mbps for internet + 3 Mbps for IPTV).
Now the MPEG4 codec is being used to provide IPTV to people who are too far from a LLU exchange (and to enable high definition channels). Supposedly, this codec would only require 1.7 Mbps. No idea about the quality loss...
I'm thinking this is do-able for Eircom, the question remains will they have the money to do it and most of all will it be worth it?

Smart are using MPEG4 at 3mb/s SD and it delivers excellent picture quality, superior to UPC digital and equal and perhaps even better then Sky SD, perhaps even approaching DVD quality

However the problem that, Eircom, Smart, etc. face is HD. Look at he bit rates being used by sat for HD, using MPEG4:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/satellite_hdtv_bit_rates.php

The BBC is using over 16mb/s MPEG4!! Most are averaging around 14.5mb/s MPEG4.

Now consider this, ADSL2+ gives you a maximum of 24mb/s, but in urban areas, most people only get about 12 to 15mb/s. How are you going to fit HD TV on that?

In the US, AT&T U-verse service squeezes the HD down to about 6 to 8 mb/s, but even at that AT&T have to use VDSL2+ and FTTC to get acceptable performance and many people complain that the HD picture quality is far inferior to sat, which of course it is as it is using half the bandwidth as sat.

I can't see Eircom rolling out expensive VDSL2+ and FTTC, I hope I'm wrong,
but I don't think so. Perhaps Eircom plan on taking the cheap route and just bang a basic VoD service onto Boxer DTT boxes, like BT does with the Vision service in the UK.

This is unlikely to be successful as pay DTT is unlikely to be a success in Ireland like Freeview is in the UK IMO.

paulm17781

BK, you had big issue with the Smart service for a long time, has it improved?

bk

paulm17781 wrote: »

BK, you had big issue with the Smart service for a long time, has it improved?

I had lots of issues with the old MPEG2 service, however Smart have recently replaced all my gear with new MPEG4 gear and the service has vastly improved, at least in terms of picture and audio quality and stability.

I still have issues, but as the new service is still in beta and changing almost weekly, I'll wait until it is out of beta before I give it a proper review.

dhaumi

bk wrote: »

This is unlikely to be successful as pay DTT is unlikely to be a success in Ireland like Freeview is in the UK IMO.

I wouldn't be so sure. If they do it well, i.e cover a good range, not just Dublin, provide a good picture, and if the prices are competitive... it could work.
Now Boxer will probably not provide as many channels as NTL or Sky but I know people who prefers NTL to Sky because they find themselves less channels-hopping. Obviously they wouldn't be picky about picture quality, PVR, series-link and all that. Nonetheless they have a point, you're better off just having the channels you actually watch.

Besides, a LOT of people subscribe to NTL or Sky, because it's the only way for them to get a proper picture for irish channels, they're hardly interested in Sports or Movies channels...

bk

dhaumi wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure. If they do it well, i.e cover a good range, not just Dublin, provide a good picture, and if the prices are competitive... it could work.
Now Boxer will probably not provide as many channels as NTL or Sky but I know people who prefers NTL to Sky because they find themselves less channels-hopping. Obviously they wouldn't be picky about picture quality, PVR, series-link and all that. Nonetheless they have a point, you're better off just having the channels you actually watch.

Boxer will be offering 20 channels, for €23 per month.

UPC currently offer 40 channels, including all the channels Boxer plans to offer, for €20 per month.

And then there is Freesat that offers most of the channels that Boxer will be offering, plus about another 60 English channels, plus HD and all for free.

Sorry but Boxer is dead in the water before it even starts, it doesn't stand a chance against UPC, Sky and Freesat.

accensi0n

Trialling Eircom's IPTV service at the moment. Eircom ClickView.

Some picture breakup and sound loss is occuring. Not too bad though.

The VoD movies are utter sh*te.

anotherlostie

bk wrote: »

Boxer will be offering 20 channels, for €23 per month.

UPC currently offer 40 channels, including all the channels Boxer plans to offer, for €20 per month.

And then there is Freesat that offers most of the channels that Boxer will be offering, plus about another 60 English channels, plus HD and all for free.

Sorry but Boxer is dead in the water before it even starts, it doesn't stand a chance against UPC, Sky and Freesat.

While UPC might be cheaper than Boxer, not everyone is able to use their service. There are large swathes of the country outside urban centres that currently rely on the analogue signal for their TV.

paulm17781

anotherlostie wrote: »

While UPC might be cheaper than Boxer, not everyone is able to use their service. There are large swathes of the country outside urban centres that currently rely on the analogue signal for their TV.

No doubt. Sky will have coverage in those areas though. I don't think BK means UPC are a threat as such, he's just saying how uncompetitive Boxer is. Unless it's free, people will most likely go with satellite or cable.

watty

I've free satellite with 45+ decent Tv channels and 10+ decent radio channels at two places. Never any breakup. DVD quality on BBC.

TV aerial perfect for Irish TV in Limerick, a bit noisy in Dublin.

bk

paulm17781 wrote: »

No doubt. Sky will have coverage in those areas though. I don't think BK means UPC are a threat as such, he's just saying how uncompetitive Boxer is. Unless it's free, people will most likely go with satellite or cable.

That is exactly what I'm saying.

70% of Irish people already have multichannel TV from either UPC or Sky, I was making the point that Sky and UPC both offer a service that has more channels and is cheaper then boxer, therefore Boxer will find it almost impossible to steal any of these customers from Sky or UPC.

That then just leaves 30% of the market for Boxer to target. However this is a part of the market that has already resisted Sky and UPC and are happy with just a few channels or can't afford more channels.

These sort of people seem unlikely to start paying €23 per month for Boxer. They might pay €10 per month for just the UK channels, but I think must of these people will just go for the FTA DTT channels or will likely get Freesat/sat4free for a once off fee.

And of course Sky and UPC will likely bring out special deals and marketing to target these folks closer to the analogue switch off.

Personally I see little business case for Boxer success.

watty

Actually Sky and UPC each have over 55%. Some significant number of people must have both.

Add FTA satellite, Freeview UK DTT in Border and Eat/South east and also people who will NEVER subscribe to TV and that leaves maybe 10% IMO for Boxer as a maximum. 125k Households. Sky & UPC won't stand still either. People are becoming more aware of UK FTA/ Freesat etc... They will have to nearly give it away to get than 10%.

Also most people will need an outdoor aerial or a new aerial for decent DTT. They'll have to give away the MPEG4 DTT set boxes. Since these can be cheaper than a Neotion CAM -Converter and 100% compatible and the Neotion CAM-Converter isn't even compatible with all DTT sets and many flat screen/HD sets sold have NO CI or DTT tuner at all...