How to avoid becoming a nice guy.

LegacyUser · 20-10-2008 12:13pm #1

Been going out with a girl for a few weeks. She is foreign, and will be returning home next year. Things have gone quite well so far, we both really like each other. However, the probem is she says that I am too nice to her and she gets the impression that I would marry her immediately. She likes that she has someone she can trust and rely on, but she does not like the impression that I am at her beck and call.

Now, I do really like her. But I did not realise I was giving off such strong signals. I would never intentionally make that impression to any girl, at least in the early stages. We have been talking on the phone everyday but we have decided to cut back on this. It was her suggestion, she wants to miss me more. Tbh I hate talking on the phone and I am glad she suggested this. But what worries me is that I would not have suggested this by myself. I am beginning to think I am there for her too much already.

We decided that the best solution would be to meet up a few times a week, something fun one evening, then just laze around together on other evenings etc.

How do I find the balanace between treating her well and being there for her, yet not becoming a doormat?
I have never had this problem with any other girl before, so I am quite confused.

I want to be good to her, but I most certainly do not want to become one of those 'nice guys'.

owenmakken · 20-10-2008 12:27pm

If you have to ask then you cant - people are what they are and if you try not you'll end up looking like 'that soft lad who always tries to be tough' which is far worse.

but if you really want a shot try these -

say you don't want her talking to other men except relations.
put her down with comments about her looks.
only talk about yourself and when she brings up her achievements ignore her.

good luck!

Wibbs · 20-10-2008 12:33pm

helpaniceguy wrote: »

She likes that she has someone she can trust and rely on, but she does not like the impression that I am at her beck and call.

Listen to her basically. What she's saying here is spot on.

I reckon it comes down to this; a relationship should be an equal thing. There should be a natural tooing and froing of the power dynamic within the relationship. Power sounds bad. Maybe a better analogy might be; consider two people in a car. One has the map and the other has the steering wheel. A good relationship is one where you each take turns to drive the car and you each take turns to direct. In this case and at this time she wants you to drive while she gives directions. She wants discussion about where you're both going next. What you're actually doing is leaving her do all the driving and map reading while you sit in the back praising how great she is behind the wheel.... Or not. Jebus dunno where that one went, but...

OK try again. I'll use the word "nice" here, though men and women usually have a different defintion. A guy who defines himself as nice usually means that he is a doormat. He is overly passive especially in front of a woman. That he is unconfident in his attractiveness to women. A nice guy signals to the woman that she's actually going out with someone beneath her. That the luck is all on his side. This may not be expressed consciously by her, but it will come out with her not feeling "it" for the guy. The "spark" will die. Of course it will. By being around her all the time and being overly attentive he's basically saying that he has no life outside her. She's out of his league and she's bringing all the good to the relationship. Would you go out with a woman you considered ugly? No, you wouldn't. Well think of this behaviour as "ugly" to a woman. The more you do it, the more unattractive you will look, until the day comes when "out of the blue" she tells you, "it's not you it's me"......

When a woman says she wants a nice guy, the translation would be quite different. A nice guy would be a man. A man who knows what he wants and goes for it. A man that will support her in times of stress and look to her for support in times of stress for him, because he values her. A man who trusts her and himself. A man who is emotionally consistent and in control of those emotions. A man who is attractive to other women because of these qualities(a biggy). A man who has his own life, who wants to share some of that with her and wants to share some of her life outside the relationship too. A man who will call her on her BS and expect her to call him on his(v important). A man who values and respects himself and also values and respects her, but never at the cost of his own self respect.

Figure out that list and you'll do fine. Work on it anyway.

shellyboo · 20-10-2008 12:33pm

Your lady friend sounds a bit crazy, imho. There is no such thing as being 'too nice' to a girl who is capable of appreciating a good man when she gets one. I would be honest with her and tell her that that's just the kind of guy you are - attentive, caring, and wanting to spend time with her. If she has a problem with that, then she needs to go find someone who'll treat her a bit worse... since that seems to be what she's asking for.

Drift · 20-10-2008 12:36pm

Sounds like bull**** games to me OP.

Having said that if she says it again you could give this a go:

Tell her that this is who you are and you're not planning on changing it for her. Then inform her that if it's that much of a deal breaker then she's free to break up with you at any time she wants and you don't want to hear any more about it. Two birds with one stone, you look strong (which apparently she wants) and you're not going to hear about it again.

von Neumann · 20-10-2008 12:54pm

Treat her like a f**k buddy, that should do it.

Are you being a door mat or she's playing games?

I'm not sure which.

Marksie · 20-10-2008 12:58pm

Wibbs has pretty much summed it up.
Its about balance between Obliging behaviour and dominating behaviour (see von neumanns post for the other end of the spectrum)... i think the term for it is integrating behaviour

.

She may be feeling the pressure of contsant contact. But she has handled it well adn that shows a degree of respect for you.
Now you didn't realise that you were acting like this and that is fair enough, you may have been wrapped up in the whole thing developing and now in the next stages, she is saying "ok, take it easy". So you have made arrangements to alter the dynamic.
That is you not being duped, or not a "nice" guy in the male sense wibbs talks about. But "nice" guy in the sense wibbs talks about positively.

You have seen this, and taken steps..just find the balance.. so that you can be open, intimate, but not a clingy type.(sorry wibbs haven't got your mastery with words).

The possibility also exists that she may be preparing you for when she leaves, that is worth considering, she may be saying ok lets enjoy the now but don't get too involved..just in case .

Now she has handled it very maturely. She hasn't played you then suddenly vanished, she is giving you the openings to continue but on a different level. She does seem grounded and communicative.
Now from the limited information on the post, while confused, you seem to be doing the right thing. But avoid second guessing your own actions. Enjoy what you have, be yourself, but be aware..merely that..

Beetlebum · 20-10-2008 1:10pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Listen to her basically. What she's saying here is spot on.

I reckon it comes down to this; a relationship should be an equal thing. There should be a natural tooing and froing of the power dynamic within the relationship. Power sounds bad. Maybe a better analogy might be; consider two people in a car. One has the map and the other has the steering wheel. A good relationship is one where you each take turns to drive the car and you each take turns to direct. In this case and at this time she wants you to drive while she gives directions. She wants discussion about where you're both going next. What you're actually doing is leaving her do all the driving and map reading while you sit in the back praising how great she is behind the wheel.... Or not. Jebus dunno where that one went, but...

OK try again. I'll use the word "nice" here, though men and women usually have a different defintion. A guy who defines himself as nice usually means that he is a doormat. He is overly passive especially in front of a woman. That he is unconfident in his attractiveness to women. A nice guy signals to the woman that she's actually going out with someone beneath her. That the luck is all on his side. This may not be expressed consciously by her, but it will come out with her not feeling "it" for the guy. The "spark" will die. Of course it will. By being around her all the time and being overly attentive he's basically saying that he has no life outside her. She's out of his league and she's bringing all the good to the relationship. Would you go out with a woman you considered ugly? No, you wouldn't. Well think of this behaviour as "ugly" to a woman. The more you do it, the more unattractive you will look, until the day comes when "out of the blue" she tells you, "it's not you it's me"......

When a woman says she wants a nice guy, the translation would be quite different. A nice guy would be a man. A man who knows what he wants and goes for it. A man that will support her in times of stress and look to her for support in times of stress for him, because he values her. A man who trusts her and himself. A man who is emotionally consistent and in control of those emotions. A man who is attractive to other women because of these qualities(a biggy). A man who has his own life, who wants to share some of that with her and wants to share some of her life outside the relationship too. A man who will call her on her BS and expect her to call him on his(v important). A man who values and respects himself and also values and respects her, but never at the cost of his own self respect.

Figure out that list and you'll do fine. Work on it anyway.

Wibbs - You rock!!

LegacyUser · 20-10-2008 1:26pm

Thanks for the replies.
I don't think she is playing games, she does not seem like that type of girl.

She said that she really likes me but that it is not working the way it is. She wants to change things a bit. She explicitly said that she does not want to break up. She obviously cannot promise me anything in the future (same for me) but at the min, she is not planning on breaking up. She actually did say that she was finding it a bit overwhelming and she wants to take it a bit slower.

I have to say that she is mature and she made it clear that she wants to see me a bit more, hang out together, but talk a little less on the phone (which actually suits me better too).

Wibbs wrote

That the luck is all on his side.

I think I actually said one day ''I'm so lucky to have you'' or something to that effect. F**k it, what an obvious mistake to make.

I think I have maybe been too affectionate too early.

She did say that she wants to find a better balance. So hopefully I can do it. Sounds easy!

Beruthiel · 20-10-2008 1:29pm

Unregistered wrote: »

I think I actually said one day ''I'm so lucky to have you'' or something to that effect.

That should have been followed by "and you're dead lucky to have me"
You need to see both sides of that and believe it.

Wibbs · 20-10-2008 2:26pm

Unregistered wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.
I don't think she is playing games, she does not seem like that type of girl.

She said that she really likes me but that it is not working the way it is. She wants to change things a bit. She explicitly said that she does not want to break up. She obviously cannot promise me anything in the future (same for me) but at the min, she is not planning on breaking up. She actually did say that she was finding it a bit overwhelming and she wants to take it a bit slower.

I have to say that she is mature and she made it clear that she wants to see me a bit more, hang out together, but talk a little less on the phone (which actually suits me better too).

TBH that lassie sounds like a keeper. Many would have written you off if they felt like it was going too fast. She's obviously keen on you as she's telling you exactly what you should be doing. Not in a bad domineering way either. From what you say here she's telling you things that will make it better for you too. As I said keep that one going. Don't worry at this stage about her leaving either. A lot can happen between now and then. Hell a lot can happen between now and next week. Savour what you have and grow it.

I think I actually said one day ''I'm so lucky to have you'' or something to that effect. F**k it, what an obvious mistake to make.

I think I have maybe been too affectionate too early.

Yes and no. You don't want to start over thnking this either. If you watch everything you say you may screw up even more. I mean saying I'm lucky to have you is fine in context and with the rest of your stuff together. Or like Beruthiel said.

Basically just chill it. I mean it's clear she likes you. It's clear she isn't the usual "drama" type, so go with the flow. Just be aware that you're the prize too. If you weren't she wouldn't have bothered to say all of this. She would have just dumped you.

In my experience, when women leave men after the initial phase and the woman has said to herself, "this guy could go somewhere", the men have often caused the change.

She did say that she wants to find a better balance. So hopefully I can do it. Sounds easy!

Funny enough it is and as I say she seems sound enough to weather the odd hiccup. You should be the same as sooner or later she'll hiccup herself. Then you can be the sound one.

Good luck anyway.

Drift · 20-10-2008 3:37pm

Unregistered wrote: »

She said that she really likes me but that it is not working the way it is. She wants to change things a bit. She explicitly said that she does not want to break up. She obviously cannot promise me anything in the future (same for me) but at the min, she is not planning on breaking up. She actually did say that she was finding it a bit overwhelming and she wants to take it a bit slower.

I have to say that she is mature and she made it clear that she wants to see me a bit more, hang out together, but talk a little less on the phone (which actually suits me better too).

.................

She did say that she wants to find a better balance. So hopefully I can do it. Sounds easy!

After reading that OP I think I'll take back what I said earlier. These don't sound like the type of things a game-player would say to you. Looks like she likes you and is trying to communicate some of the things she wants from the relationship. Is she was into playing games she wouldn't have been as open or honest as it seems she is. I'm not sure what advice I'd give but as in all relationships communication will be the key!

DenMan · 20-10-2008 4:05pm

She may not be used to it OP. Maybe it's just her way of keeping things cordial before you move further on in your relationship. Some people have different ways of protecting their relationships. You said she is foreign. Have you met much of her friends yet? Has she introduced you to them? Have you introduced her to yours? Is she comfortable integrating into a new society? Some people aren't entirely comfortable with spending most of their time with somebody new. She may indeed have spent a lot of time with her friends before and is now juggling her free time. Just give it a bit of time and see what happens.

AARRRGH · 20-10-2008 4:13pm

helpaniceguy wrote: »

How do I find the balanace between treating her well and being there for her, yet not becoming a doormat?

I treat girls very well, but I've never been called "too nice".

The problem is you are coming across as lacking in confidence, having low self esteem, or thinking she is too good for you.

Try being yourself, and the problem will go away. You might say "I am being myself" but are you sure? For example, are you putting her needs ahead of your own? Are you letting her make the decisions?

rathbaner · 20-10-2008 4:16pm

Maybe she wants a more sexual relationship but is unable to say it straight out. Epithets like 'nice' and 'gentleman' to describe a boyfriend usually mean unexciting and sex averse.

Tell her you're willing to make changes but you also want to turn up the heat sexually, that you accept that the relatonship may well end soon but you want to experience it to the full.

If she slaps you in the face just walk and wait for her to call. If not then close your eyes and fulfill your fantasies.

She Devil · 20-10-2008 4:52pm

My guy is one of those nice guys girls talk about. One girl refused to go on a second date with him because he is "too nice" Me to her... THANK YOU SO SO SO MUCH!! He would never ever let me down, any girl who does not want a nice guy is mental. Be a nice guy and you will get a nice girl! Please don't change your nice loving ways!

unhappycamper · 20-10-2008 5:15pm

She Devil wrote: »

My guy is one of those nice guys girls talk about. One girl refused to go on a second date with him because he is "too nice" Me to her... THANK YOU SO SO SO MUCH!! He would never ever let me down, any girl who does not want a nice guy is mental. Be a nice guy and you will get a nice girl! Please don't change your nice loving ways!

I am a nice guy, my x just started something with someone else in the mean time, I hate to admit it but being too nice is not always a good thing.

Red Alert · 20-10-2008 6:55pm

I think sometimes I'm too nice... the big thing is make sure that you're confident and nice, not being nice because you're afraid or trying not to make a mistake. It's entirely possible to be nice and be masculine/sexy at the same time.

abi2007 · 20-10-2008 8:18pm

I like nice guys.... and if there are any out there I'm still single!

missingtime · 20-10-2008 8:42pm

I am one of them "nice guys" supposedly. Tried being the wanker for a bit but I was rubbish cos I kept apologising.
With relationships you soon learn its not about being the nice guy, its about give and take.

Wibbs · 20-10-2008 8:51pm

abi2007 please stay on topic and read the charter for guidance.

mizzoni · 21-10-2008 12:23am

nice guys get nowhere! yea some posts by women have said "i like nice guys" and jibba jabba like that but you ask them what kinda guys melt their butter and they wont say a nice guy.im still single because of 'nice guy' syndrome and will be unless i kop the fech on.took me ages to figure it out.be a challenge,treat her like she isn't all that,tell her she has a fat head/lips/ass whatever.be fun but not an asshole.and if you fear she's going to end it,tell her you have another woman lined up to take her place. an issue like that shouldnt even affect you.i wish i had learned how the game works growing up,but unfortunately it takes a painful break-up to learn it

Wibbs · 21-10-2008 10:04am

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this. As I said I reckon it's down to the genders different definitions of "Nice guy". In my experience both think they're saying the same thing, but the reality is often different, although there are common traits.

Men's definition? Nice guy = Sensitive, quiet, shy, mannerly, non sleazy, passive. All good qualities, don't get me wrong, but in the male nice guy definition they are often overdone to the point where they are just too much and frankly come across as overly feminine*.

Women's definition? Nice guy = Sensitive, emotionally strong, confident, non sleazy, but more active rather than passive traits. They're looking for a man, not another girlfriend.

Subtle difference. One is an active personality, one is passive, though they look similar at first glance. Throw in some women saying they want a nice guy, but actually going for more of the bad boy type and confusion arises. Then throw in media images of male definition nice guys winning out in movies etc and cue more confusion. Further to that throw in the definition of maleness itself being at a confusing time at this point in history and all bets are off(a thread for humanities beckons).

So you have one bunch of men who are nice enough but socially and emotionally over passive getting nowhere or getting lucky once in a while, then losing the woman usually because of excessive passivity.

Then you have the other bunch of men who turn to the dark side

and become bad boys, getting more attention, but ultimately not better relationships.

Often the latter are ex members of the former that throw the baby out with the bath water, because one or two women left them because of overly passive behaviour and now go to the diametric opposite(mizzoni and other posters may be in that category. No offence meant we all do it in some way). That's no good either as then relationships tend to be to and fro battles rather than to and fro compromise. Then nobody's happy long term.

The men I've known who get their fair share of women and hang on to them for the longest have common traits regardless of looks, car, job etc or any of that. They can be "quiet and sensitive" too.

They're not passive all the time.
They have a good handle on who they are as people and men.
They're consistent emotionally and don't give up growing and learning just because they've left their adolescence behind.
They like women as people(Too many men may "love" women, for the obvious reasons, but would barely talk to their current girlfriend if she was a bloke if you know what I mean).
They like themselves.
They accept their shortcomings and try to fix them, but they see their own value too.
They're reliable and they're loyal.
They're also attractive to other women, but don't make hay out of that.
They stand up for those they love and they stand up for themselves too(very important).

As a template they're a good start. Don't go down the bitter route. Yes , strangely you will get more women, but that's only because you trigger some of the switches women look for(confidence and standing up for yourself). You'll get more women, but you won't likely feel true intimacy with someone else, because under all the new bravado, you will still be the unconfident guy, afraid of his own emotions.

My longwinded rambling 2 cents anyhoo.

*I use feminine advisedly. I personally would want pretty much the same strength in a woman I loved.

LegacyUser · 21-10-2008 10:28am

Hello,

I suspect wibbs has come across the seduction communnity as I have, either that or he is very intuitive and understands women naturally.

I suggest you visit real social dynamics and read some of the many enlightening articles there.

Bottom line, the girl more than likely doesn't find you attractive.

Women on the whole are attracted to the same things. In order to attract one woman you need to be able to attract all women.

Women are attracted to the following qualities whether they admit it or not:

Dominance .ie you take charge and act through your own intentions.

Not caring what anyone thinks of you.

Being internally validated. You feel good just being you, you don't need to look to the outside world for evidence that you are cool .ie achievements, people's reactions to you or any other logical reason. you are confident because you are alive, you don't need a reason to be confident.

Socially calibrated; you understand how things work socially and you are good at enjoying people's company adn they generally enjoy your company.

You should tease your girlfriend, be playful and have fun with her. Also don't afraid to be sexual. let her know wht you would like to do to her. Make no apologies for your desires as a man.

mizzoni · 21-10-2008 10:40am

good God Wibbs,your'e very deep! cant disagree with a word you've written.men just hand women their balls nowadays and don't know what their role is.a man has to lead a relationship.women want a man and not another girlfriend.it could be down to feminism or overprotective mammies but there definitely is a root cause.im going to search for a book called 'the retrosexual manual-how to be a real man in the 21st century',because goddammit this metro sexual crap must die!and while i have the day off i'll have a look in lidl or aldi and see if i can get some chainsaws,welding kits,workbench's,and power tools to put in the wardrobe!!

Marksie · 21-10-2008 11:02am

Wibbs wrote: »

Men's definition? Nice guy = Sensitive, quiet, shy, mannerly, non sleazy, passive. All good qualities, don't get me wrong, but in the male nice guy definition they are often overdone to the point where they are just too much and frankly come across as overly feminine*.

Women's definition? Nice guy = Sensitive, emotionally strong, confident, non sleazy, but more active rather than passive traits. They're looking for a man, not another girlfriend.

My perspective is similar but replace active and passive as being in touch with Male (shiva/yang) and female (shakti/yin) aspects that reside in us all and having those in harmonious balance. So that in any given situation one or the other can be called upon.
So that a man "in touch" with his feminine side, can display a degree of sensitivity, creativness, openness and empathy which compliments his partner. Similalry the woman in touch with her male aspect can be assertive, capable of asking for what she wants and display the appropriate male characteristics.
Its been said that these opposites are what we are looking for in the other, and so contacting them in ourselves. Which wibbs, is putting into a tantra context what you are saying

.

Now given that the OP may have obverly exopressed the passive/shakti/ yin qualities, in stepping back he can restablish the alternate.

But that is a genralisation based on the ideal. The reasons WHY overtly passive/shakti/yin qualities may be to the fore are another matter: fear of losing, fear of letting the other go, fear of causing offence, self esteem issues etc. etc.... that is where the negative "nice" aspect comes in. That is why the doormat type nice abounds because they believe that in expressing the passive qualities to the exclusion of the active will bind their partner too them, When in fact its the union of opposites that does so.

The doormat nice will therfore not understand why this is happening, because the empathy that attracted his partner in the first place was never replaced by the more masculine qualities she needs. So yes he has a degree of success and thinks well thats the way to go, without realising that it is being able to express both sides that is the key to successful relationships.
That doevetails with yuor lasty points as regards the "bad boy" syndrome where the same issues arise but becasue they now express the yang/shiva to the exclusion of all else. An example of this came to mind with a work colleague, whose noe ex wife was in labour. It conflicted with a dublin GAA match. He went to the match and then the pub while she was giving birth.. a time when she could have used a little empathy i believe

Wibbs · 21-10-2008 11:35am

Unregistered wrote: »

I suspect wibbs has come across the seduction communnity as I have,

Not really, beyond that bloke on MTV and his game show turning losers into studs. TBH The thoughts of a seduction "community". I can picture the scene. I swear a straight face I couldn't keep.:) It reminds me of the diet industry. Wrapping up the blatantly obvious in some magic process, by the sometimes daft to the slightly bewildered. Move more + eat less and better = lose weight. Be your own person + build your own life for you + get out there = Attract more women. OK sometimes people need a process but life is often a hell of a lot more simple than we make it. I have made and make the same mistakes myself.

either that or he is very intuitive and understands women naturally.

A straw poll of my exes would suggest otherwise. Hey I'm working on it.:o

Bottom line, the girl more than likely doesn't find you attractive.

I agree. That happens though. All the time. No matter how seductive one is simple basic incompatibility can often be the simplest explanation.

Women on the whole are attracted to the same things. In order to attract one woman you need to be able to attract all women.

Maybe. Yes there are commonalities, but the one thing I have learned about women is that they have a very wide range of what they find attractive. Far wider than men I would say. It sounds like an extension of men thinking what would work for them works for women.

Being internally validated. You feel good just being you, you don't need to look to the outside world for evidence that you are cool .ie achievements, people's reactions to you or any other logical reason. you are confident because you are alive, you don't need a reason to be confident.

Socially calibrated; you understand how things work socially and you are good at enjoying people's company adn they generally enjoy your company.

These two I would agree with in some ways, but it smack too much for me at least of Dr. Phillism. When I read terms like validation and calibration my hackles go up. It feels too much like forcing the issue.

You should tease your girlfriend, be playful and have fun with her. Also don't afraid to be sexual. let her know wht you would like to do to her. Make no apologies for your desires as a man.

Again true so long as not obviously forced.

I have seen guys try this seduction stuff in pubs in Dublin. It seems popular at the moment. It frankly looks false to me. I can see how it could point someone towards the right direction, but I can also see how it could become obsessive to the point where the original intention of becoming a better human being, never mind a man, is subverted by it. To each their own though.

mizzoni wrote:

good God Wibbs,your'e very deep!

I'm a rank amateur compared to Marksie.

cant disagree with a word you've written.

Thanks but you should. Always try to find your own take. I could be and often do talk utter crap. Make your own mistakes and from that you'll get the framework for you. That's a biggy. While we may learn from others, the best teachers are life and that big eejit in the mirror.

men just hand women their balls nowadays and don't know what their role is

There's an element of that yes, but we have to be careful not to fall into the trap of berating women for that either.

a man has to lead a relationship

I wouln't agree at least not to that degree. I think a man has to learn what a relationship is for a start. He has to learn how to deal with and understand another human being. He has to be open to give and take. He must see himself as an equal in the relationship. The "nice" guy isn't equal. Neither is the "dominant" guy. Both stem from a similar source. Insecurity. Two sides of the same coin. I have no problem handing over "power" at times to a woman. I have no problem trusting her with my emotions. How she deals with that and how I choose to deal with her reaction(and vice versa). If I feel a relationship is becoming a power struggle I would walk away.

A man women want a man and not another girlfriend.

Very true.

Marksie wrote:

What he said about tantra and balance and the like.

Good stuff in that post.

LegacyUser · 21-10-2008 11:52am

There are many schools of seduction in the community. Mystery on MTV teaches one particular method which is one amongst many. If guys come across as weird ( Most of whom do when they start out) it means they are doing something wrong.

Type in "Keys to the VIP Cajun" into youtube and watch him pull women on the show.

You don't need to memorise routines to chat up women. But for guys who are very introverted and socially inexperienced they can be good training wheels.

The seduction community is a resource, there are weird guys in it and cool guys just like anywhere.

Pat Mustard · 21-10-2008 12:00pm

A friend of mine went out with a Polish girl for a while. He is a nice guy, but he's a total pushover when it comes to women, in a bad way. One time, she told him that Polish women believed that Irish blokes were weak to accept the way that many Irish women treat many Irish men.

I've heard it said that there are women from three cultures/backgrounds that tend to have a lot of 'strong minded' women; Irish women, Italian women, and Jewish women. The Irish mother/son relationship stereotype, for instance.

So maybe some foreign women from different cultures see many Irish men as being weak and submissive. I don't think that they like it either.

From my own point of view, it does look to me that there is a very much more 1950's-style male-female contrast that you can see in Eastern Europeans.

So, the Irish, they're just different. Hope it works out OP.

Marksie · 21-10-2008 12:01pm

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm a rank amateur compared to Marksie.

Nope your not actually, different schools of thought and perspectives or different takes on the whole scenario from differnt ends of a spectrum. Usually a commonality in there though and that is the bottom line... achieving the goal whatever approach is taken in assessing the issue

Though, i like the idea of a straw poll of exes. lol

Pat Mustard · 21-10-2008 12:13pm

helpaniceguy wrote: »

Been going out with a girl for a few weeks. She is foreign, and will be returning home next year.

Ouch, only a few weeks and the cracks are showing already? Seems the relationship is going a bit too seriously too early maybe? Maybe ease off a bit. And remember, she is going home next year, so maybe don't get too committed.

LegacyUser · 05-12-2008 3:43pm

Hey, this was my thread from a few months back.
We have had a great few months since this, not one argument and things are flying.
We just had an uncertain start. See each other all the time, hardly any phone calls (phew!!!!) and generally have a lot of fun. We were laughing about this ''incident'' last night. It seems so long ago now.

Thanks to everyone for the advice, especially Wibbs (and you were right, she is a keeper!).

Thanks again to all who helped.

LolaLuv · 05-12-2008 5:55pm

Wibbs wrote: »

They're not passive all the time.
They have a good handle on who they are as people and men.
They're consistent emotionally and don't give up growing and learning just because they've left their adolescence behind.
They like women as people(Too many men may "love" women, for the obvious reasons, but would barely talk to their current girlfriend if she was a bloke if you know what I mean).
They like themselves.
They accept their shortcomings and try to fix them, but they see their own value too.
They're reliable and they're loyal.
They're also attractive to other women, but don't make hay out of that.
They stand up for those they love and they stand up for themselves too(very important).

It seems like all of these qualities apply to women who are considered catches as well. Or would you disagree with that?

Wibbs · 05-12-2008 5:59pm

Pretty much yep

How to avoid becoming a nice guy.

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