The Greens & the fall of Fianna Fail

ron_darrell

Is it just me or have things gone to hell in a handbasket since the Greens got into government? A more removed from reality party I have yet to see. I know I personally did not vote for Fianna Fail so they could get these clowns into government with them. And this sense of unreality seems to have infected FF since. Bertie seemed the only one capable of keeping this in check (though admittedly in the end even he seemed to feel that it was his right to be leader of this country rather than by the will of the people) & Mr Cowen seems to live in some strange, new world where if he thinks a thing it is so, if he says it it is right.

I have voted for FF in every election (local, national & european) since I came of age but I tell you frankly at this stage - and a truly terrifying thing it is to say - Enda Kenny makes more sense than any FF frontbencher. What has happened to the backbenchers? Do they have no voice anymore? Will none of them stand up and stop this rot before the awful reality of another rainbow coalition of FG, Labour & another comes to pass.

What has happened to my party?

is_that_so

It is the age-old problem of a party too long in power,and it's FF and not the Greens that are the problem in the mix. However much they think they have new ideas it's just rehashing old ones. Eventually their time runs out and they end up morally and politically bankrupt. They lose track of what affects people and believe that they have a god-given right to be the government. It happened to Thatcher, the PP in Spain and Brown is in trouble. They also tend to display a sense of arrogance that can make decision-making foolish in the extreme.

A complication in FF's case is that they have presided over one of the biggest booms we've ever seen. All parties can be generous when there's a lot to give away. The downside now is that they have very few who know what to do in this climate. Added to this is the lack of new blood. Looking at the dearth of talent on the front bench of the current government makes me shudder.

Very often parties draw on the councillor pool to get new TDs. FF have been losing heavily in councils for a while and next year may produce more carnage.

In short , I think they need to go into opposition. While it can be argued that we should pick the best government, i.e. the one which apparently has most experience, perpetual one-party government is no good for the party nor the rest of us. Incidentally however bad FF are doing I suspect that the Greens will suffer even more. Much as I recognise the pragmatism of what they did, they really picked the wrong team to back at the wrong time.

Macha

ron_darrell wrote: »

Is it just me or have things gone to hell in a handbasket since the Greens got into government?

No, this economic crisis is a direct result of sub-prime mortgages in the US and has been compounded by similar loose lending practices in Ireland and the artificial inflation of the housing market, which are FF policies.

ron_darrell wrote: »

A more removed from reality party I have yet to see. I know I personally did not vote for Fianna Fail so they could get these clowns into government with them.

Actually, the Greens are the only ones who seem willing to face the realities of climate change and other serious environmental issues that face us and indeed have been seriously worsened by FF policies over the past decade.
-Water pollution? Failure to invest in water treatment facilities
-rising transport emissions? Failure to implement sustainable planning and ensure sufficient residential densities. Failure to invest in Ireland's railway network. Failure to move over 50% of the population from commuting in private cars (according to 2006 census) into more sustainable modes.
I could go on and on and on but I'll leave it at that.

If you cast your mind back to the last general election campagin, the Greens were the ones with the lowest and most realistic projections of economic growth. FF and the rest were prancing around shouting about 8% growth and promising voters the sun, moon and stars. Now, who is more in touch with reality?

ron_darrell wrote: »

And this sense of unreality seems to have infected FF since. Bertie seemed the only one capable of keeping this in check (though admittedly in the end even he seemed to feel that it was his right to be leader of this country rather than by the will of the people) & Mr Cowen seems to live in some strange, new world where if he thinks a thing it is so, if he says it it is right.

Bertie was a cute hoor to the very end and saw the economic storm clouds gathering on the horizon. He got out because he knew that this was coming.

ron_darrell wrote: »

I have voted for FF in every election (local, national & european) since I came of age but I tell you frankly at this stage - and a truly terrifying thing it is to say - Enda Kenny makes more sense than any FF frontbencher. What has happened to the backbenchers? Do they have no voice anymore? Will none of them stand up and stop this rot before the awful reality of another rainbow coalition of FG, Labour & another comes to pass.

WHy is it so terrifying that Enda Kenny makes more snese than a FF frontbencher? WHy do you have to be so blind and just vote for the party, instead of the policies? Mindless FF robots are the reason FF keep getting back in. "Oh but the alternative, the alternative!!" Well that's exactly what I want-the opposite of FF.

ron_darrell wrote: »

What has happened to my party?

They're reaping what they've sown.

Ludo

is_that_so wrote: »

Incidentally however bad FF are doing I suspect that the Greens will suffer even more. Much as I recognise the pragmatism of what they did, they really picked the wrong team to back at the wrong time.

I agree...I admit I have never voted FF and certainly won't any time soon due to their utter incompetence and corruption. I have been voting Green recently but after seeing them in action, I now see that they are as bad as the rest. I liked their policies in general but to be honest I only voted for them to try giving them a chance to see if they had anything to offer. The rest have shown they are incompetent so what was the harm in a new(ish) party having an input into government (the same could be said for SF but I would need a gun to my head before voting for them). Unfortunately the Greens seem to be as clueless as the others. They still have an opportunity to show me they can do it but time is running out for them.

Really don't know who I would vote for if there was an election now. Probably Labour I guess by default...back where I started.

jhegarty

taconnol wrote: »

Actually, the Greens are the only ones who seem willing to face the realities of climate change and other serious environmental issues that face us and indeed have been seriously worsened by FF policies over the past decade.
-Water pollution? Failure to invest in water treatment facilities
-rising transport emissions? Failure to implement sustainable planning and ensure sufficient residential densities. Failure to invest in Ireland's railway network. Failure to move over 50% of the population from commuting in private cars (according to 2006 census) into more sustainable modes.
I could go on and on and on but I'll leave it at that.

Nothing this Government has done was about climate change , it was all about getting a bit of extra cash (with the exception of this bike thing)

Macha

jhegarty wrote: »

Nothing this Government has done was about climate change , it was all about getting a bit of extra cash (with the exception of this bike thing)

Obviously that isn't true.
-The target for renewable energies for 2020 has been increased from 30% to 40%.
-A cycling engineer has been appointed to Dublin City Council (at last...).
-The decision has been taken not to increase road capacity with the M50
-The minimum size of apartments has been set (albeit a bit late)
-Car parking and cycling incentive in the budget
-Banning of building in flood plains (Adaptation measure)
-introduction of a carbon budget
-improved building regulations and introduction of BERs

That's just off the top of my head.

It has been shown and proven in study after study after study that people do not respond to education and information campaigns on environmental issues. What do they respond to? Financial incentives.

Kline

We need a fresh leader in this country. Kenny doesnt have it and never will. He's like a whinge bag from east enders whining about the opposition all the time - He has no charisma.

Fitzgerald was probably the closest thing we ever had to an honest and decent politition. He was just unlucky that he was against the worst fu..ker that ever set foot in Irish politics.

Marcus.Aurelius

Are we prepared to let Fianna Fail continue to mess up our future, or are we going to have to change allegiance for a time to help the FF frontbench learn a lesson they have not been reminded of in 12 years.

You are the representatives, we have the power to remove your power. I worry that it is already too late for FF, they're so far removed now as to be oblivious to the ordinary person who is suffering from all the problems they have caused by utter mismanagement, failure and corruption with the builders/construction lobbyists.

CtrlSource

ron_darrell wrote: »

Is it just me or have things gone to hell in a handbasket since the Greens got into government? A more removed from reality party I have yet to see.

It's just you. How can you seriously blame The Green Party for everything going pear-shaped of late? Give us a few examples maybe? Were you expecting them to fix everything AND achieve World Peace in the first year? ¬_¬

I know I personally did not vote for Fianna Fail so they could get these clowns into government with them. And this sense of unreality seems to have infected FF since.

You've mentioned this 'unreality' twice no but i'm no closer to unravelling this rather nebulous argument.

It seems clear that you were not a fan of the GP before the election and are now trying to (irrationally in my view) blame them for everything that's gone wrong since.

Ludo wrote: »

Unfortunately the Greens seem to be as clueless as the others. They still have an opportunity to show me they can do it but time is running out for them.

i'm glad you're still prepared to give them a chance. But time is only running out for them if they actively pull out of Government, or if it falls because of other events. We're only in year 2 of a 5 year term. i think it's worth giving them them a more time to make their mark. Sure they're not perfect, but i think as junior coalition partners to FF have learned before, it's not always easy being in Government with The Republican Party

eoinbn

ron_darrell wrote: »

Bertie seemed the only one capable of keeping this in check (though admittedly in the end even he seemed to feel that it was his right to be leader of this country rather than by the will of the people) & Mr Cowen seems to live in some strange, new world where if he thinks a thing it is so, if he says it it is right.

Ahern is the main reason that we are in the position that we are in. The man was an appeaser which was very useful in northern ireland, but less so when he was minister for labour and Taoiseach. Forunately for Ahern he was in power at a time when it was near impossible to do any wrong. When you have billions in surplus you can either cut taxes or raise spending, both of which are popular and FF did both. That's fine if you do it the correctly, but FF didn't. They spent the money on current spending, more nurses/teacher on higher wages-easy votes, instead of capital spending which might help in 10-15 years time but won't buy you the next general election or local election.

More on topic.
OP FF will be fine, your post proves it. You are already blaming the greens even though the real problem was create in the last government(FF+PD's), not the current one. The TD's leaving the government are just securing their seats for the next election. Behan has already started his general election campaign on RTE's sixone news, where not only did he condemn the budget, but also other decision's that he has already voted for in the past that he is sorry about- bless him!
The government might fall, but FF won't. The only mistake that FF made in their eyes right now is that they got relected, this was the election to lose- if they had lost 18 months ago we would probably be looking at the fall of the the rainbow at this budget due to strikes from the public sector to get FF back in. All will be forgiven, though it might take losing the next election, and they will be back in power buying elections and destroying the public finiances with solicitors, or accountance clerks, in the minister for finiance.

Tableman

Fianna Fail must be so delighted that they have the Greens with them at the moment. If things get really hot, they can start coming out with things like "it was a terrible mistake to go into government with the greens" etc.

CtrlSource

Tableman wrote: »

Fianna Fail must be so delighted that they have the Greens with them at the moment. If things get really hot, they can start coming out with things like "it was a terrible mistake to go into government with the greens" etc.

They wouldn't be able to say that, publicly at least, unless there's a row over something with The Greens that they can blame it on.

It was a terrible mistake to go into Government with Mary Harney this time around though :rolleyes: