UK Registered CIE Coaches

Wishbone Ash

I saw two coaches today in CIE livery but with Sheffield registration plates. I thought it seemed a bit odd. Do they have a fleet over in the UK?

jimmycrackcorm

Thet are for the UK routes. With all the Ryanair noise it's easy to forget that you can go to London by bus.

Victor

Sometimes the coach / bus manufacturers will loan operators a few buses for a few weeks on trial to encourage them to consider buying that design. While any purchases would need to go through a tender process, if the manufacturer can get the operator to adopt their specification or innovations, then they have an advantage over other manufacturers.

The coach would remain the property of the manufacturer, so there is no need to change registration, but for customer recognition they are put into the operators colours.

John R

Victor wrote: »

Sometimes the coach / bus manufacturers will loan operators a few buses for a few weeks on trial to encourage them to consider buying that design. While any purchases would need to go through a tender process, if the manufacturer can get the operator to adopt their specification or innovations, then they have an advantage over other manufacturers.

The coach would remain the property of the manufacturer, so there is no need to change registration, but for customer recognition they are put into the operators colours.

While that scenario does happen it is not why there are some UK reg coaches in CIE colours on irish roads.

It is pretty rare for demonstrators to be painted in an operator's livery these days, more often it will be left in plain white or even painted in the colour of one operator who will eventually take possession of it after a period as a demonstrator.

The Coaches Wishbone saw are not owned or operated by CIE, they are coaches from a UK operator who does contract work for CIE Tours International.

CIE tours do not run any of their own coaches, many of their Irish tours are operated by Bus Eireann coaches and drivers, other Irish and all overseas tours are operated by independent coach companies.

No CIE owned bus has a UK reg (except for second-hand purchases that are re-registered before use here) if they were to do so they would need to be insured as their Irish exemption would not be valid for a UK vehicle

Every few years a batch of Bus Eireann coaches are delivered new in CIE tours livery and these will mainly be kept on tour duties only, they are not fitted with ticket machines to stop them being pinched for service work. After a year or two they will be fitted with ticket machines and destination displays and be cascaded into the service fleet and eventually re-painted into standard BE colours.

There are probably as many if not more coaches in CIE Tours livery that are owned by other companies and surprisingly very few of these have ever ended up operating scheduled services for Bus Eireann.

The cross-channel services BE run mainly use their own coaches, the regular ones allocated are in Eurolines livery with Bus Eireann branding, one of BE's main Irish contractors also runs a BE/Eurolines service with Irish Reg coaches in Eurolines livery.

BE do have a UK contractor who operate the British leg of one of the Dublin-Leeds route with their own coaches which are also in Eurolines livery, these can occasionally make their way across the Irish sea if the scheduled BE coach for the Dublin-Holyhead leg is unavailable but it is very rare and they would not be used here apart from the return trip.

Wishbone Ash

Thanks for that comprehensive reply John R.

John R wrote: »

BE do have a UK contractor who operate the British leg of one of the Dublin-Leeds route with their own coaches which are also in Eurolines livery, these can occasionally make their way across the Irish sea if the scheduled BE coach for the Dublin-Holyhead leg is unavailable but it is very rare and they would not be used here apart from the return trip.

That would make sense as they were parked along Nassau Street (Dublin) with other private coaches. I saw one of them before that, coming up the north quays.

SickCert

Some arrive from the builders with foreign plates too, Snapped earlier in the year at Holyhead.

Wishbone Ash

SickCert wrote: »

Some arrive from the builders with foreign plates too, Snapped earlier in the year at Holyhead.

That would be understandable but the ones I saw had passengers in them!

corktina

i am sure i have seen Eurolines vehicles in Cork with UK registrations....I assumed these were a UK contractor on hire to BE

Victor

SickCert wrote: »

Some arrive from the builders with foreign plates too, Snapped earlier in the year at Holyhead.

O_o, you spotter.

Hotblack Desiato

A few years ago I saw a bus in DB livery on a UK plate going through Donnybrook village (not towards the garage either) how is that not a breach of the VRT regulations? As if the driver is not an Irish resident - pull the other one. If you tried that in a private vehicle it could be seized. (Actually, I knew a few ex-C&E officers but no-one in possession of a warrant at the time, if they had been they might have got a call )

Wishbone Ash

ninja900 wrote: »

A few years ago I saw a bus in DB livery on a UK plate going through Donnybrook village (not towards the garage either)

The bus was probably 'on trial' from a UK company to test its suitability.

ninja900 wrote:

how is that not a breach of the VRT regulations? As if the driver is not an Irish resident - pull the other one. If you tried that in a private vehicle it could be seized. (Actually, I knew a few ex-C&E officers but no-one in possession of a warrant at the time, if they had been they might have got a call )

Jesus calm down man!

The VRT on a bus is a nominal €50. The Customs men have more pressing issues to deal with!

Here's a couple of examples:

antoinolachtnai

There is VAT to pay as well, surely? The amount of the VAT is substantial.

Wishbone Ash

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

There is VAT to pay as well, surely? The amount of the VAT is substantial.

My knowledge of VAT is extremely limited but I thought it was only payable if the vehicle was less than 6 months old or had less tham 6,000km on the clock?

Presumably, if the vehicle was on trial, nothing would be payable until it was actually registered?

Aren't those engaged in commercial activity entitled to a VAT rebate anyway?

antoinolachtnai

Not sure about the 6-month role. [EDIT:] I think you are correct.

A public transport operator does not get to claim back VAT.

(I am not saying that there is necessarily anything wrong with operating in Irish livery on UK plates.)

Wishbone Ash

From Finance Act 1992 - presumably this would 'cover' it?

135.—A vehicle which is temporarily brought into the State may be exempted by the Commissioners from the requirement to be registered, in such manner and subject to such conditions, restrictions and limitations as the Minister may prescribe by regulations made by him under section 141 if the vehicle is—

( a ) brought into the State by a person established outside the State for his private or business use,

( b ) brought into the State solely for the purpose of a competition, exhibition, show, demonstration, or similar purpose and is not intended to be sold or offered for sale in the State and is intended to be taken out of the State on the fulfilment of such purpose, or

( c ) designed or specially adapted as professional equipment brought into the State by a person established outside the State for use exclusively by such person or under his personal supervision.

AlekSmart

Damn...another cunning Bus Atha Cliath anti-competitive ruse spotted and nipped in the bud..Grrrr :mad:

But seriously folks........The in-service testing of UK registered Vehicles is as old as the State itself.
CIE trialled most of its types at one point or another and I can remember the front engined Volvo Ailsa THS273M roaring around on the 19 route in a rather fetching mid blue livery.

All of this is of course covered by reams of dispensations and other assorted temporary importation and operation permissions from the relevant Departments (Of which there are many !!)

Propably the longest such example was the Scania double deck vehicle which was re-registered and operated for a year after CIE was "persusuaded" to trial it in the early 1980`s (Hint: The then Taoiseach Dr Fitzgerald was a great fan of the SaaB marque).
However in spite of the vehicle being popular with both drivers and maintanance staff the company decided that it`s own proposal was far more suited than the Scania and thus began the Bombardier era......(Hint : Desmond O Malley TD had a bit of a problem in the oul home constituency and a the Rippon Piano factory had been vacant so 1+1= :pac: )

The rest as they say is Histry.... :P

antoinolachtnai

Here is a reminder of the class and sophistication of that great era. Be sure to watch until the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOZJfZIIGrM

Wishbone Ash

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Here is a reminder of the class and sophistication of that great era. Be sure to watch until the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOZJfZIIGrM

That was hillarious! Thanks!

Wishbone Ash

The reg of that Bombardier was 2 YZJ.

According to Cartell that belongs to a VW Golf?

Now the reporter/driver mentioned "sticking with the Volkswagen". I'm inclined to think that no one registered the bus and they 'borrowed' the plate from the Golf to make it look legal for the trip to Bunratty!

John R

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The reg of that Bombardier was 2 YZJ.

According to Cartell that belongs to a VW Golf?

Now the reporter/driver mentioned "sticking with the Volkswagen". I'm inclined to think that no one registered the bus and they 'borrowed' the plate from the Golf to make it look legal for the trip to Bunratty!

Try 2 VZJ.

corktina

i think its Vzj isnt it?

damn beat me too it whilst I was watching the videos.....

Wishbone Ash

John R wrote: »

Try 2 VZJ.

Of course! That's what I get for being cynical.

(I see a BMW 735i owner beat them to it for 1 VZJ ).