Buying a Synthesizer...Advice needed!

DeadMoney

Buying a Synthesizer...Advice needed!
Hi, I am interested in buying a cheap enough beginner synthesizer that I can mess about with. The problem is, I am totally clueless about the things. I know a bit about effects as I am a guitarist so I know the difference between analogue and digital etc. Anyway, can anybody recommend a good beginner synth, or where is good in Dublin or online to get one, and how much it might set me back? Is it possible to get something for about 500 euro? I know there are different types of synthesizers so I hope this is not too vague. Some of the electronic music I listen to is Holy ****, crystal castles, Ladytron, hot chip, the knife, battles. This might give you more of an idea of the kind of sounds I am trying to emulate. Any advice is greatly appreciated, cheers.

jtsuited

don't buy a hardware synth. you do not need one. yet.

crystal castles, ladytron etc..
To get those sounds any virtual analogue software synth will do.

And the microkorg pretty much sucks.

The only hardware synth that is decent for under 500 quid is the Waldorf Blofeld. But if you're new to synthesis that'll be a bit too complex.

DamagedTrax

i had a chance to mess around on a m8s dave smith prophet 08 & i'd recomend it as a starter synth to anyone. its a bit more expesive that the cheaper "big name" models but its a stunningly beautiful synth that can be as simple or as complex as you want.

but like jsuited said its probably better to spend on some vsts before diving into the deep end.

af_thefragile

Get Reason, its got some really good synths...

seannash

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i had a chance to mess around on a m8s dave smith prophet 08 & i'd recomend it as a starter synth to anyone. its a bit more expesive that the cheaper "big name" models but its a stunningly beautiful synth that can be as simple or as complex as you want.

but like jsuited said its probably better to spend on some vsts before diving into the deep end.

starter synth:eek::eek::eek::eek:

DamagedTrax

i know you cant put it in the bracket of mikrokorg or similiar for "starter" - but i just dont think that starter has to mean inferior.

yeah definitly. if you want to learn the basics of synthesis.. its subtractive and everything is laid out infront of you with dials and knobs and buttons - no dreaded menues.

like i said price wise its not starter but for ease of use, you could teach anyone on it. and what an introduction to synthesis it would be! the sound outta that thing is just unreal.

seannash

no ive messed with it and didnt really think id need anything else.i figured it was ideal for an experienced person.i actually hate those menus and screens on synths,much prefer a slider or knob for everything.
just shocked to hear it called a starter synth,its pretty similar to the minimoog
and i never considered that a starter synth.
i guess there are synths that let you delve deeper alright:D

DamagedTrax

maybe dream starter synth is a better description

seannash

DamagedTrax wrote: »

maybe dream starter synth is a better description

ha ha ha,thats one of my dream synths regardless.i dont think i could handle anything more complex.
just as a matter of interest what would a more complex synth be able to deliver that the prophet wouldnt,

DamagedTrax

its not that the prophet isnt a complex synth, its just that its based on a fairly user friendly architechture.

an FM synth is a whole lot more comlicated to use but the comparitive quality could be very similiar to the prophet.

seannash

DamagedTrax wrote: »

its not that the prophet isnt a complex synth, its just that its based on a fairly user friendly architechture.

an FM synth is a whole lot more comlicated to use but the comparitive quality could be very similiar to the prophet.

hmm okay.
now im not being smart here but surely the one with the easier user interface would be better no matter what experience you have if the results are the same.i understand the sound quality will be the same but is there any sounds that the more complex synths can make that the prophet just cant.
just trying to understand as my synthesis isnt as good as it should be:D

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i
an FM synth is a whole lot more comlicated

I recall when the DX7 came out and no one even looked at the programming - it was for Turbo Boffins alone!

DamagedTrax

hmm okay.
now im not being smart here but surely the one with the easier user interface would be better no matter what experience you have if the results are the same

not necceserily - a subtractive synth and an FM synth are 2 totally differant things. while you can emulate 1 from the other it will never sound the same. differant tools for differant jobs

.i understand the sound quality will be the same but is there any sounds that the more complex synths can make that the prophet just cant.

plenty - but by more complex id be talking about the complexity of the actual synthesis (more osc's, better filters etc) not the fact that it has endless menues.

just trying to understand as my synthesis isnt as good as it should be

its quite an interesting thing to get lost in..

DeadMoney

I've been told about the micro korg before from other people. It seems pretty affordable too. I just want something that I can learn the basics on and thats somewhat good. In terms of the software programs, I would prefer to actually have a real synth as I am a bit of a technophobe. I play a few instruments already and have always enjoyed sitting down and trying to learn these myself. I don't think I'd be ready to start messing with computer programs. I need to ease myself in. What is the best way to learn to play with synthesizers? With learning guitar and piano, it was a lot easier with all the learning resources but I don't know where to start with synthesizers.

Anima

FM sounds very different compared to subtractive synthesis. Its good for metallic bell type sounds and it is generally colder sounding than subtractive. I think Autechre use it a lot, especially in their later stuff. It can make very complex sounds but its also very hard to program right. Its very easy while trying to make a sound, to just make a dissonant mess of things.

Seeing as you're only starting out I'd seriously play with a VST synth for a bit first to see if you like it first and learn a bit. If you really want, you could get a midi controller so you can still have the feel of controlling the synth physically. If you had to get a hardware synth I'd get one second hand anyway so look on ebay or something.

seannash

DeadMoney wrote: »

I've been told about the micro korg before from other people. It seems pretty affordable too. I just want something that I can learn the basics on and thats somewhat good. In terms of the software programs, I would prefer to actually have a real synth as I am a bit of a technophobe. I play a few instruments already and have always enjoyed sitting down and trying to learn these myself. I don't think I'd be ready to start messing with computer programs. I need to ease myself in. What is the best way to learn to play with synthesizers? With learning guitar and piano, it was a lot easier with all the learning resources but I don't know where to start with synthesizers.

the keys on the microkorg are absolutley tiny,really unfit for playing,so if your looking to play out with it forget about it.
if i had to pick one id go for the
xiosynth


http://www.thomann.de/ie/novation_xiosynth49.htm



but id still opt for a laptop and vst,youll have alot more sounds at your disposal and better synths for the money

DeadMoney

Ok thanks for the advice. The reason I want to buy a hardware synth is because I want to use his live with a band. Sort of like yeasayer or holy fu*k. I am not trying to get in to producing pure electronic music, but more to use it along side other live instruments. I suppose the best example I can give is this link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfDwMbtBgfU

I understand these guys have loads and loads of different effects going on here but this is the sort of idea I have. I want to use a synth along side some of my guitar effects pedals and just experiment with indie/electronic style music.

seannash

DeadMoney wrote: »

Ok thanks for the advice. The reason I want to buy a hardware synth is because I want to use his live with a band. Sort of like yeasayer or holy fu*k. I am not trying to get in to producing pure electronic music, but more to use it along side other live instruments. I suppose the best example I can give is this link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfDwMbtBgfU

I understand these guys have loads and loads of different effects going on here but this is the sort of idea I have. I want to use a synth along side some of my guitar effects pedals and just experiment with indie/electronic style music.

thats cool,500 isnt alot so id say that the xiosynth is a good bet,the microkorgs keys are far too small,im talking tiny here.plus its got a whole different approach to synthsesis than most of the other synths so its not the best for learning.
ideally id say go to a store and try one out,any synth with two oscillators should be able to make the sounds you want

PaulBrewer

seannash wrote: »

xiosynth

I have one of those - it's good fun.

jiltloop

Are you looking for a new synth or would you go for a second hand synth? I have 2 synths up on adverts.ie a novation bass station keyboard synth which is analogue small and portable. Its pretty easy to use for a beginner but is monophonic and maybe a bit limited to bass or lead sounds. I also have a jp8000 for sale which is a great beginner synth. Its easy to use and has plenty of hands on control. I have it up for €600 but I would be prepared to let it go for about €500. It was the first synth I ever bought and I was able to play around with it instantly without much knowledge of synthesis.

DeadMoney

seannash wrote: »

thats cool,500 isnt alot so id say that the xiosynth is a good bet,the microkorgs keys are far too small,im talking tiny here.plus its got a whole different approach to synthsesis than most of the other synths so its not the best for learning.
ideally id say go to a store and try one out,any synth with two oscillators should be able to make the sounds you want

Which xiosynth are you recommending? Is it the 25 or the 49 model?

seannash

DeadMoney wrote: »

Which xiosynth are you recommending? Is it the 25 or the 49 model?

well if your playing live youll need the 49 key one so the 49

DeadMoney

Thanks, appreciate the advice.

seannash

this is also in your price range

http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.com/product/Roland-SH201-Synthesizer?sku=701861


think itll be alot more straight forward than the xiosynth,everything seems alot clearer and laid out a bit better

DeadMoney

What about this?

http://www.musicstore.com/en_EN/IEP/Alesis-Micron-Virtual-Analog-Synthesizer/art-SYN0002338-000

DeadMoney

ok so the synthesizers that seem to be in my price range and beginner based are the microkorg, xiosynth, and the micron. Which one would you go with if you had to pick one?

seannash

what about the one I posted last the Roland

DamagedTrax

seannash wrote: »

this is also in your price range

http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.com/product/Roland-SH201-Synthesizer?sku=701861


think itll be alot more straight forward than the xiosynth,everything seems alot clearer and laid out a bit better

sorry dude but thats an abomination of a synth. feels horible to play and the sound is piss poor and generic.

seannash

DamagedTrax wrote: »

sorry dude but thats an abomination of a synth. feels horible to play and the sound is piss poor and generic.

never heard it before just kinda showing him whats out there.
well the micrkorg is out,the keys are too small for playing.
this is the updated version of the microkorg


http://www.korg.com/gear/prod_info.asp?a_prod_no=R3&category_id=1


im not sure about the alesis one,i know someone who has it and doesnt like it.

DeadMoney

seannash wrote: »

what about the one I posted last the Roland

I just think it is a bit too big for the small space I have. I am sharing an apartment with friends and space can be pretty tight. I don't necessarily need something that I can gig just yet. I just want to mess with some synth sounds so I guess I only need something basic. I would like to put it through some guitar effects such as the line 6 dl4 delay modular and wah etc. I think the example of the holy fuc*k video best explains what I am going for. I cannot even tell wheter they are using cheap "toy" synths or good ones. I know they use a lot of guitar effects and mini keyboards. I'm primarily a guitarist so an indie/electro sound is what I am after. I think I will go with the alesis micron and see how it works out. Thanks again for all the advice.

Helix

DeadMoney wrote: »

I've been told about the micro korg before from other people. It seems pretty affordable too.

wouldnt bother with it tbh, its a poor synth

studiorat

What's a second hand Nord Lead go for these days?

DeadMoney

Could you pick up one of these 2nd hand for within my price range? I saw the new york band yeasayer using a nord lead at a gig before. I recall looking at one of these in a music shop in chicago during the summer. Can't remember how much it was though. It was sure as hell a lot cheaper than it would be here.

Valcin

Hey i was looking at that you tube video. That gig was on TV last night on channel M so i got a good look at the gear. If you want to get that type of sound it looks like they are using old cheap casio synths through guitar effest pedals and guitar amps. Its kinda like the "new sound".

I think Dan Deacon might have started it. You should check it out if you like holy ****, its really inspiring stuff,
http://www.myspace.com/dandeacon
a lot of people called it the gig of electric picnic, you can download his albums for free legally through a link on his myspace.
http://www.dandeacon.com/mp3/
Just shows that gear isnt that important, its what you do with it that counts.

Hot Chip are also using them as well, I read an article where one of them was saying how funny he thought it was that he bought one of the cheap casios a few years ago at a garage sale for a pound and once he told people what he was using the value of them rocketed. Kinda the same as a few years earlier when old analogue synths began to be used again, the value of them went from nothing to huge sums but im pretty confident that the casio synths arent going to go up too much in price.

I know that Dan Deacon uses a Casio MT-800 so maybe get any of the casiotone batch of casio synths. They are dirt cheap on ebay, only around 50 bux. The main effects that holy **** seem to use in that video are delay pedals, i thought i saw a boss DD-3 and i saw a Moog moogerfooger pedal as well, i think its a ring modulater but not sure, they use a lot of filters and distortion pedals as well.

I doubt you would get that type of sound from some of the analogue modelling synths mentioned but you should probably get one anyways cause they are good for learning synthesis on and you should be able to pick up a casio for next to nothing so youll have some money to spare.

I would recommend the nord lead as well. its a bit more expensive than the others mentioned but its been used on alot of albums. Leftfield used the nord lead 1 on Leftism, the prodigy use the nord lead live as a handy substitute instead of their old analogues. Im thinking of picking one up cause im not too inspired by my microkorg. It is pretty basic in features but has a good raw sound which is what you want.

DeadMoney

Valcin wrote: »

Hey i was looking at that you tube video. That gig was on TV last night on channel M so i got a good look at the gear. If you want to get that type of sound it looks like they are using old cheap casio synths through guitar effest pedals and guitar amps. Its kinda like the "new sound".

I think Dan Deacon might have started it. You should check it out if you like holy ****, its really inspiring stuff,
http://www.myspace.com/dandeacon
a lot of people called it the gig of electric picnic, you can download his albums for free legally through a link on his myspace.
http://www.dandeacon.com/mp3/
Just shows that gear isnt that important, its what you do with it that counts.

Hot Chip are also using them as well, I read an article where one of them was saying how funny he thought it was that he bought one of the cheap casios a few years ago at a garage sale for a pound and once he told people what he was using the value of them rocketed. Kinda the same as a few years earlier when old analogue synths began to be used again, the value of them went from nothing to huge sums but im pretty confident that the casio synths arent going to go up too much in price.

I know that Dan Deacon uses a Casio MT-800 so maybe get any of the casiotone batch of casio synths. They are dirt cheap on ebay, only around 50 bux. The main effects that holy **** seem to use in that video are delay pedals, i thought i saw a boss DD-3 and i saw a Moog moogerfooger pedal as well, i think its a ring modulater but not sure, they use a lot of filters and distortion pedals as well.

I doubt you would get that type of sound from some of the analogue modelling synths mentioned but you should probably get one anyways cause they are good for learning synthesis on and you should be able to pick up a casio for next to nothing so youll have some money to spare.

I would recommend the nord lead as well. its a bit more expensive than the others mentioned but its been used on alot of albums. Leftfield used the nord lead 1 on Leftism, the prodigy use the nord lead live as a handy substitute instead of their old analogues. Im thinking of picking one up cause im not too inspired by my microkorg. It is pretty basic in features but has a good raw sound which is what you want.

Thanks Valcin, I appreciate the insight and thanks for the Dan Deacon tip.Yeah I've noticed holy **** using these mini casio's to play samples off. I've browsed them on ebay also and they are definitley quite cheap. I'd like to pick one up at a later stage for def. I'll pick up a synth first and see if I can find a second hand nord maybe. If you liked the sound of holy ****, they are playing the Acedemy in Dublin 2moro nite. Its 17 euro for a ticket. I'm looking forward to hearing those crazy sounds live.

PaulBrewer

Valcin wrote: »

Hey i was looking at that you tube video. That gig was on TV last night on channel M so i got a good look at the gear. If you want to get that type of sound it looks like they are using old cheap casio synths through guitar effest pedals and guitar amps. Its kinda like the "new sound".

I think Dan Deacon might have started it. You should check it out if you like holy ****, its really inspiring stuff,
http://www.myspace.com/dandeacon
a lot of people called it the gig of electric picnic, you can download his albums for free legally through a link on his myspace.
http://www.dandeacon.com/mp3/
Just shows that gear isnt that important, its what you do with it that counts.

Hot Chip are also using them as well, I read an article where one of them was saying how funny he thought it was that he bought one of the cheap casios a few years ago at a garage sale for a pound and once he told people what he was using the value of them rocketed. Kinda the same as a few years earlier when old analogue synths began to be used again, the value of them went from nothing to huge sums but im pretty confident that the casio synths arent going to go up too much in price.

I know that Dan Deacon uses a Casio MT-800 so maybe get any of the casiotone batch of casio synths. They are dirt cheap on ebay, only around 50 bux. The main effects that holy **** seem to use in that video are delay pedals, i thought i saw a boss DD-3 and i saw a Moog moogerfooger pedal as well, i think its a ring modulater but not sure, they use a lot of filters and distortion pedals as well.

I doubt you would get that type of sound from some of the analogue modelling synths mentioned but you should probably get one anyways cause they are good for learning synthesis on and you should be able to pick up a casio for next to nothing so youll have some money to spare.

I would recommend the nord lead as well. its a bit more expensive than the others mentioned but its been used on alot of albums. Leftfield used the nord lead 1 on Leftism, the prodigy use the nord lead live as a handy substitute instead of their old analogues. Im thinking of picking one up cause im not too inspired by my microkorg. It is pretty basic in features but has a good raw sound which is what you want.

Good Post

DIRTY69

I can offer a modular Yamaha DX7 if anyone is interested. Straight up, I just don't use it anymore so someone can grab it off me for €100 if they're interested.

Would be a cheap introduction to the world of hardware synthesizers if anyone is interested. For anyone thats not familiar with the DX7 it has been used by these amongst many, many others:

Crystal Method, Kraftwerk, Underworld, Orbital, BT, Talking Heads, Brian Eno, Tony Banks, Mike Lindup of Level 42, Jan Hammer, Roger Hodgson, Teddy Riley, Brian Eno, T Lavitz of the Dregs, Sir George Martin, Supertramp, Phil Collins, Stevie Wonder, Daryl Hall, Steve Winwood, Scritti Politti, Babyface, Peter-John Vettese, Depeche Mode, D:Ream, Les Rhytmes Digital, Front 242, U2, A-Ha, Enya, The Cure, Astral Projection, Fluke, Kitaro, Vangelis, Elton John, James Horner, Toto, Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald, Chick Corea, Level 42, Queen, Yes, Michael Boddicker, Julian Lennon, Jean-Michel Jarre, Sneaker Pimps, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Greg Phillanganes, Jerry Goldsmith, Jimmy Edgar, Beastie Boys, Stabbing Westward and Herbie Hancock.

PaulBrewer

DIRTY69 wrote: »

I can offer a modular Yamaha DX7 if anyone is interested. Straight up, I just don't use it anymore so someone can grab it off me for €100 if they're interested.

Would be a cheap introduction to the world of hardware synthesizers if anyone is interested. For anyone thats not familiar with the DX7 it has been used by these amongst many, many others:

Crystal Method, Kraftwerk, Underworld, Orbital, BT, Talking Heads, Brian Eno, Tony Banks, Mike Lindup of Level 42, Jan Hammer, Roger Hodgson, Teddy Riley, Brian Eno, T Lavitz of the Dregs, Sir George Martin, Supertramp, Phil Collins, Stevie Wonder, Daryl Hall, Steve Winwood, Scritti Politti, Babyface, Peter-John Vettese, Depeche Mode, D:Ream, Les Rhytmes Digital, Front 242, U2, A-Ha, Enya, The Cure, Astral Projection, Fluke, Kitaro, Vangelis, Elton John, James Horner, Toto, Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald, Chick Corea, Level 42, Queen, Yes, Michael Boddicker, Julian Lennon, Jean-Michel Jarre, Sneaker Pimps, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Greg Phillanganes, Jerry Goldsmith, Jimmy Edgar, Beastie Boys, Stabbing Westward and Herbie Hancock.

What's the name of that? Is it a TX?

Helix

a modular dx7???

PaulBrewer

Helix wrote: »

a modular dx7???

Rack I'd guess...

DIRTY69

Its not a rack. It's TX series.

Dagon

Has anyone tried the Nexus synth? It's a handy plugin, once you get past all those dancy tones that is!