Rip off Vegitable oil at Tesco's despite the fall in diesel prices.

Run_to_da_hills

Not sure if this is the right forum, Mods can move it.

At the beginning of the year Tesco own brand Vegetable was a only 60c per litre or €1.80 for a three litre bottle.

When Diesel increased to about 40%. Motorists started to take advantage of this as a cheaper fuel source. Tesco subsequently increased the price to €1.00 or €2.99 for a three litre bottle.

Diesel has been falling rapidly in price since August but the opposite is happening here. To my shock today I noticed that Tesco has raised the price of veggie oil again to €1.45 per litre and €4.24 for three litres which is an increase of well over 110% in 10 months. Whats going on here.

bmaxi

I don't know much about Tesco's pricing structure but I do know that if Mr Customs and Excise stops you and finds anything other than duty paid fuel in your vehicle, then the proverbial **** will hit the fan.

Gillo

At risk of sounding stupid.

Whats the link between Diesel and vegitable oil?

Sorry remember now, there was some way of using vegitable oil in a car instead of diesel, wasn't it meant to wreck the engine over time though.

jhegarty

bmaxi wrote: »

I don't know much about Tesco's pricing structure but I do know that if Mr Customs and Excise stops you and finds anything other than duty paid fuel in your vehicle, then the proverbial **** will hit the fan.

yep , they take your car

KTRIC

OP, I think you need to realign your tinfoil hat or "they" will realise you're using vegetable oil and put it up even more.

And just for the record, vegetable oil has absolutely no connection to diesel, petrol or engine oil, believe it or not :rolleyes:

Jumpy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right forum, Mods can move it.

At the beginning of the year Tesco own brand Vegetable was a only 60c per litre or €1.80 for a three litre bottle.

When Diesel increased to about 40%. Motorists started to take advantage of this as a cheaper fuel source. Tesco subsequently increased the price to €1.00 or €2.99 for a three litre bottle.

Diesel has been falling rapidly in price since August but the opposite is happening here. To my shock today I noticed that Tesco has raised the price of veggie oil again to €1.45 per litre and €4.24 for three litres which is an increase of well over 110% in 10 months. Whats going on here.

Its supply and demand. There is a global food shortage at the moment and that includes vegetable oil. Its harder to get.

Run_to_da_hills

KTRIC wrote: »

OP, I think you need to realign your tinfoil hat or "they" will realize you're using vegetable oil and put it up even more.

And just for the record, vegetable oil has absolutely no connection to diesel, petrol or engine oil, believe it or not :rolleyes:

What planet have you been on since January when Diesel started to hike? It was all over the motoring forums about using Vegi oil. And various posters were warning about Customs & Excise. Vegi oil is legal if the duty & VAT has been paid. When you buy it at Tesco it is sold as a food product hense it is cheaper but it is illegal to use as fuel.

If you buy "bio fuel" from a service station which is still cheaper than diesel you need to keep all receipts. I used it for a while but then stopped on the advice of a mechanic that my fuel pump and lines were not designed for it.

I couldn't Be ars*d spending over 1K for kits etc especially if the margin is so tight between Diesel and bio fuel. Perhaps the Green party could do something useful and push the government to lower the price of this.

antoinolachtnai

I think the problem is that there is no environmental benefit to running cars on vegetable oil or related biofuels.

Granted, you can buy palm oil for less than 15c/l in SE Asia. But the oil comes from palms that are growing on land where there used to be rainforest.

bmaxi

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

What planet have you been on since January when Diesel started to hike? It was all over the motoring forums about using Vegi oil. And various posters were warning about Customs & Excise. Vegi oil is legal if the duty & VAT has been paid. When you buy it at Tesco it is sold as a food product hense it is cheaper but it is illegal to use as fuel.

If you buy "bio fuel" from a service station which is still cheaper than diesel you need to keep all receipts. I used it for a while but then stopped on the advice of a mechanic that my fuel pump and lines were not designed for it.

I couldn't Be ars*d spending over 1K for kits etc especially if the margin is so tight between Diesel and bio fuel. Perhaps the Green party could do something useful and push the government to lower the price of this.

All right, I'll admit to being a bit thick but I can't understand the point you are making. In your opening post you implied that you were buying vegetable oil (not bio fuel) in Tesco and using it in your car. Is this the case or not?

Run_to_da_hills

bmaxi wrote: »

All right, I'll admit to being a bit thick but I can't understand the point you are making. In your opening post you implied that you were buying vegetable oil (not bio fuel) in Tesco and using it in your car. Is this the case or not?

In my opening post I never said I used Tesco veggie oil in my car, I only mentioned about the increase in price of veggie oil in line with Diesel (Obviously to put people off using it as a motor fuel). If I was to use in in my car I would have to get a kit which would cost over €1000. My point is that the price has gone up again recently yet the price of Diesel has dropped. As it has been mentioned in the motoring forum it would want to be at least 30% cheaper to make it worth while.

bmaxi

OK, there's got to be a punch line to this. Why should the price of diesel have any bearing on the cost of vegetable oil, apart, of course from the obvious implication of increased delivery charges?

Run_to_da_hills

bmaxi wrote: »

OK, there's got to be a punch line to this. Why should the price of diesel have any bearing on the cost of vegetable oil, apart, of course from the obvious implication of increased delivery charges?

Tesco is using the "motor fuel" excuse to jack up the prices. They still have the price jacked up despite the decrease in diesel. This is very comparable to airline companies that have the fuel surcharge such as Aerlingus and British airways ripping us off despite the price of aviation fuel dropping.

eth0_

bmaxi wrote: »

I don't know much about Tesco's pricing structure but I do know that if Mr Customs and Excise stops you and finds anything other than duty paid fuel in your vehicle, then the proverbial **** will hit the fan.

That's not true at all.
They're only concerned with people using agricultural diesel in cars.

Run_to_da_hills

eth0_ wrote: »

That's not true at all.
They're only concerned with people using agricultural diesel in cars.

No, the majority of the cases they will turn a blind eye if they find a 30/70 mix in your fuel tank. You can tell them you filtered waste chip oil, but if they open your boot and find a dozen 3LTR Tesco bottles of veggi oil you will have some explaining to do :eek:

JohnC.

I wasn't aware of them increasing prices due to this, but a couple of months ago or so they did put limits on the amount of veg oil people could buy due to it being used as fuel. Not sure it was in all stores, but it was done in some.

Blunder

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Tesco is using the "motor fuel" excuse to jack up the prices. They still have the price jacked up despite the decrease in diesel. This is very comparable to airline companies that have the fuel surcharge such as Aerlingus and British airways ripping us off despite the price of aviation fuel dropping.

Have tesco come out and said that the price of 'motor fuel' is the reason why their vegetable oil is going up? I doubt it. I would imagine that, like any other business, they would take into account the demand for the item and also' as another poster said, the global food shortage when deciding on prices for items. Its the same reason why a loaf of bread is 50% dearer now than 2 years ago. I suppose thats due to diesel prices too:rolleyes:

oh and BA have announced a reduction in fuel surcharges this week and i'd expect aerlingus to come under pressure to follow suit in the future.

Sam Vimes

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Tesco is using the "motor fuel" excuse to jack up the prices. They still have the price jacked up despite the decrease in diesel. This is very comparable to airline companies that have the fuel surcharge such as Aerlingus and British airways ripping us off despite the price of aviation fuel dropping.

or maybe they didn't use the motor fuel excuse to jack up the price and it went up for other reasons? It's more likely to simply be supply and demand. The demand is still high so the price is high

edit: snap

bmaxi

eth0_ wrote: »

That's not true at all.
They're only concerned with people using agricultural diesel in cars.

Not sure I'd bet my pension on that. According to Customs, the purpose of roadside testing is;

To prevent and detect the misuse in motor vehicles of reduced rate gas oil,
reduced rate kerosene, or other oil on which the standard rate of mineral oil
tax has not been paid.

Thoie

bmaxi wrote: »

Not sure I'd bet my pension on that. According to Customs, the purpose of roadside testing is;

To prevent and detect the misuse in motor vehicles of reduced rate gas oil,
reduced rate kerosene, or other oil on which the standard rate of mineral oil
tax has not been paid.

Playing devil's advocate here, why would anyone pay mineral oil tax on something that isn't a mineral oil?

(I don't have a diesel - I don't even have any vegetable oil in the house)

eth0_

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

No, the majority of the cases they will turn a blind eye if they find a 30/70 mix in your fuel tank. You can tell them you filtered waste chip oil, but if they open your boot and find a dozen 3LTR Tesco bottles of veggi oil you will have some explaining to do :eek:

Oh, I didn't realise you HAD to use recycled oil. Mad!

bmaxi

Thoie wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate here, why would anyone pay mineral oil tax on something that isn't a mineral oil?

(I don't have a diesel - I don't even have any vegetable oil in the house)

Good point actually. I won't be debating semantics with the Judge but if someone else cares to, perhaps they will let us know the outcome.:)

Thoie

bmaxi wrote: »

Good point actually. I won't be debating semantics with the Judge but if someone else cares to, perhaps they will let us know the outcome.:)

I'll happily have that discussion with the judge on your behalf, but you have to give me your car and unlimited access to Flora until I get caught

I've only ever seen Customs doing roadside checks in rural areas (where tractor diesel is conveniently available) - never actually seen them do it in Dublin - do they?

bmaxi

Thoie wrote: »

I'll happily have that discussion with the judge on your behalf, but you have to give me your car and unlimited access to Flora until I get caught

I've only ever seen Customs doing roadside checks in rural areas (where tractor diesel is conveniently available) - never actually seen them do it in Dublin - do they?

Yes, the Naas Road, N3 and N4 are regular haunts, they don't tend to be as frequent as Garda checkpoints but every now and then they have a blitz.

cast_iron

Thoie wrote: »

I've only ever seen Customs doing roadside checks in rural areas (where tractor diesel is conveniently available) - never actually seen them do it in Dublin - do they?

The N11 yesterday.

Absolam

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Tesco is using the "motor fuel" excuse to jack up the prices. They still have the price jacked up despite the decrease in diesel. This is very comparable to airline companies that have the fuel surcharge such as Aerlingus and British airways ripping us off despite the price of aviation fuel dropping.

I don't think Tesco care what you use the oil for.. only that they make a profit. Since the vast majority of sales will still be to people who use the oil for its usual purpose, and those customers will be conscious of the price in other supermarkets, they're not going to price themselves out of the market in order to gouge people fuelling cars from their shelves rather than their deisel pumps outside. So the most likely reason for a price hike is a cost hike.. which would affect other retailers of vegetable oil. So have a look in Dunnes and Superquinn.. how much are they charging? I'm deliberately excluding Aldi & Lidl here.. I presume they're cheaper anyhow

Guy:Incognito

Fight back against tesco, start using Diesel to cook your food till they drop the price of vegetable oil.

I think thats what RTDH was getting at and I support his campaign.

Danno

The price of Veg Oil has gone up because people were putting it in their cars. Simple AS. When people en masse find a way of saving serious regular consumption, the bhoys that be plug the revenue leak. Simple AS.

Blunder

Stekelly wrote: »

Fight back against tesco, start using Diesel to cook your food till they drop the price of vegetable oil.

I think thats what RTDH was getting at and I support his campaign.

craichoe

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right forum, Mods can move it.

At the beginning of the year Tesco own brand Vegetable was a only 60c per litre or €1.80 for a three litre bottle.

When Diesel increased to about 40%. Motorists started to take advantage of this as a cheaper fuel source. Tesco subsequently increased the price to €1.00 or €2.99 for a three litre bottle.

Diesel has been falling rapidly in price since August but the opposite is happening here. To my shock today I noticed that Tesco has raised the price of veggie oil again to €1.45 per litre and €4.24 for three litres which is an increase of well over 110% in 10 months. Whats going on here.

A. Vegetable oil has no relation to the price of Diesel, more people use vegetable oil, the price of Diesel does not go up, its the same with Diesel, it price has no bearing on Vegetable oil. There is NO duty on Vegetable oil purchased from a store.

B. You can use Vegetable oil, you need to declare your usage to the Revenue on your amount of usage per year.

C. Vegetable oil and Biodiesel are not the same, Vegetable oil does not have the same viscosity as Biodiesel. Biodiesel has the same properties as Diesel but is made from reconstituted oils. Starting a car in cold weather with 100% veggie oil and no modification (two tank system) is difficult to say the least.

D. Its mainly your oil pump which is the big factor, some pumps corrode when vegetable oil is used with them, others do not, Lucas being bad and Bosch being better.

If its such an issue don't buy it and use diesel/biodiesel instead, its cheaper, not as messy and more available.

Blunder

craichoe wrote: »

A. Vegetable oil has no relation to the price of Diesel, more people use vegetable oil, the price of Diesel does not go up, its the same with Diesel, it price has no bearing on Vegetable oil. There is NO duty on Vegetable oil purchased from a store.

B. You can use Vegetable oil, you need to declare your usage to the Revenue on your amount of usage per year.

C. Vegetable oil and Biodiesel are not the same, Vegetable oil does not have the same viscosity as Biodiesel. Biodiesel has the same properties as Diesel but is made from reconstituted oils. Starting a car in cold weather with 100% veggie oil and no modification (two tank system) is difficult to say the least.

D. Its mainly your oil pump which is the big factor, some pumps corrode when vegetable oil is used with them, others do not, Lucas being bad and Bosch being better.

If its such an issue don't buy it and use diesel/biodiesel instead, its cheaper, not as messy and more available.

Plus you wont smell like a chip van when you are driving down the road!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

As already stated there really is no link between Diesel and Vegetable oil prices in that the change in Diesel prices does not necessitate a corresponding change in Veggie Oil prices. A change in demand for diesel may affect Veggie Oil prices but not a change in Diesel prices per se. Veggie Oil went up due to extra demand for it and a worldwide increase in food prices. The demand obviously is continuing so the price stays as is.
Why signal Tesco out on this when it is the same everywhere?

The_Conductor

eth0_ wrote: »

Oh, I didn't realise you HAD to use recycled oil. Mad!

Recycled oil has a much lower moisture content and burns far better in a diesel engine. You'll bollox a diesel engine eventually using regular cooking oil, unless you have modifications to the engine to compensate for the higher moisture.

Run_to_da_hills

Nicolas Gorgeous Worm wrote: »

Why signal Tesco out on this when it is the same everywhere?

They are the leaders of this cartel, I.E they were the first to hike up the price of veggi oil.

rameire

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They are the leaders of this cartel, I.E they were the first to hike up the price of veggi oil.

they also take your first born.

craichoe

rameire wrote: »

they also take your first born.

and take your soul

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They are the leaders of this cartel, I.E they were the first to hike up the price of veggi oil.

And you base this fact on...? Have you priced Veggie oil in all supermarkets each week since last January?

antoinolachtnai

I think the price of vegetable oil on international markets has been volatile, but I am no expert.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/19/business/palmoil.php

Blunder

I think the AA roadwatch website has the average price of Veggie oil each month recorded on it.

rubadub

craichoe wrote: »

A. Vegetable oil has no relation to the price of Diesel, more people use vegetable oil, the price of Diesel does not go up, its the same with Diesel, it price has no bearing on Vegetable oil.

As already stated there really is no link between Diesel and Vegetable oil prices in that the change in Diesel prices does not necessitate a corresponding change in Veggie Oil prices. A change in demand for diesel may affect Veggie Oil prices but not a change in Diesel prices per se.

If everybody started to use veg oil, then demand would go down for diesel and its price would increase, less people would stock it, lower turnover etc. Just like I imagine VHS tapes cost more nowadays compared to blank DVDs. 2 different products but with some common usages. DVDs do TV & data, like veg oil is food & fuel.

craichoe wrote: »

B. You can use Vegetable oil, you need to declare your usage to the Revenue on your amount of usage per year.

Could tesco stock diesel/petrol on their shelves and leave it up to customers to declare the duty? i.e. people can use it as a solvent/cleaner.

smccarrick wrote: »

Recycled oil has a much lower moisture content and burns far better in a diesel engine. You'll bollox a diesel engine eventually using regular cooking oil, unless you have modifications to the engine to compensate for the higher moisture.

Moisture as in water? if there was water in veg oil it would be separated out, the ingredients list it as 100% oil. Unless it is something else you mean.

The_Conductor

rubadub wrote: »

Moisture as in water? if there was water in veg oil it would be separated out, the ingredients list it as 100% oil. Unless it is something else you mean.

Yes- its pure 100% oil. However its "hydrated oil". If you examine the molecular structure of different oils, you will find that they have superfluous OH chains which are released under certain circumstances (such as heating the oil to a high temperature). Oil which has been dehydrated in this manner will burn more cleanly, leaving less carbon deposits on heads, and at a lower temperature. Of course it will have to be properly cleaned to ensure no other residual products of the cooking process are included in the oil (starch etc).

S.

rubadub

smccarrick wrote: »

Yes- its pure 100% oil. However its "hydrated oil".

Very interesting, I presume it was just since they got it cheap, i.e. it was going to be thrown out. I remember seeing them running cars on it on mythbusters.

Jip

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They are the leaders of this cartel, I.E they were the first to hike up the price of veggi oil.

I want one of you to put in a corner for when I have guests over to amuse us over dinner and some fine Tesco brand champagne, where can I get you ?
Do you take club card ?

The_Conductor

rubadub wrote: »

Very interesting, I presume it was just since they got it cheap, i.e. it was going to be thrown out. I remember seeing them running cars on it on mythbusters.

It will work- over time it will leave considerable carbon deposits on the heads (and cause other probs) though. Myth buster probably used a clapped out old car that they didn't care to destroy!

nogoodnamesleft

The price of Veg oil went up because Tesco wanted to make more profit as people we using it to top up their car. I saw a individual in tesco a few months ago who had about 20 -30 litres in his trolley. BTW most diesel now available will how have a certain percentage of bio diesel added to ordinary road diesel. As another poster said bio diesel is a solvent and will eat rubber hoses in a car. Most modern cars will have a synethetic rubber hoses for the fuel system so can take it. However if you intend on using bio diesel ensure you check the manufactures recommendations regards your injection system. Bio has a different viscosity than ordinary diesel. Some cars can take a certain quality of diesel and make sure that the filters car changed regularly. at the moment I think bio is around 79c per litre. If any one is intrested there is a very good article in car mechanics magazine this month well worth a look http://www.carmechanicsmag.co.uk/