"Developers owe €39bn to Irish Banks"

MrLNB

The great Irish property gamble
€39.1bn property gamble has lenders banking on values not taking a tumble

Irish Indep
Thursday October 16 2008


In the face of intense questioning this week from an Oireachtas Committee on the unfurling credit crisis, the head of the Financial Regulator Patrick Neary drew a circle around the part of lenders' loan books about which he is most concerned.

While recent Central Bank figures showed that Irish lenders had €112m of loans out for property and construction, Mr Neary highlighted that €39.1bn of this was for speculative development.:eek:

- Joe Brennan



__________________________________________________________


And i drive to my local Tesco in Claremorris, were there is a block of about 50apts and 6 units all lying empty. And i ask my self who owns them, (these are lying empty for the last yr and a half) If the bank owns them, why has the government not put pressure on the Developer to sell these, regardless of getting the asking price, force them to lower the asking price.

Is it me, or is everyone seeing these empty houses, and apts, units.
I was in one estate this evening, where there was about 15 detached houses, about 8 were empty, with over grown gardens, weeds in the drive way, etc. . . ..brand new houses sitting idle. never lived in, and they look about 2 yr old.

who is picking this tab up, Why are they not been forced to pay back the loans. I reckon we are going to get a huge slump in the mkt. so many empty buildings, asking for prices as if there is only one in town, , ,This is Mayo not even dublin.

LNB

pocketdooz

MrLNB wrote: »

The great Irish property gamble
€39.1bn property gamble has lenders banking on values not taking a tumble

Irish Indep
Thursday October 16 2008


In the face of intense questioning this week from an Oireachtas Committee on the unfurling credit crisis, the head of the Financial Regulator Patrick Neary drew a circle around the part of lenders' loan books about which he is most concerned.

While recent Central Bank figures showed that Irish lenders had €112m of loans out for property and construction, Mr Neary highlighted that €39.1bn of this was for speculative development.:eek:

- Joe Brennan



__________________________________________________________


And i drive to my local Tesco in Claremorris, were there is a block of about 50apts and 6 units all lying empty. And i ask my self who owns them, (these are lying empty for the last yr and a half) If the bank owns them, why has the government not put pressure on the Developer to sell these, regardless of getting the asking price, force them to lower the asking price.

Is it me, or is everyone seeing these empty houses, and apts, units.
I was in one estate this evening, where there was about 15 detached houses, about 8 were empty, with over grown gardens, weeds in the drive way, etc. . . ..brand new houses sitting idle. never lived in, and they look about 2 yr old.

who is picking this tab up, Why are they not been forced to pay back the loans. I reckon we are going to get a huge slump in the mkt. so many empty buildings, asking for prices as if there is only one in town, , ,This is Mayo not even dublin.

LNB

Whatever - it's a market economy - the developers filled a need when it was there and they oversupplied the market and then we entered an economic downturn. Now some will go broke and others won't. Some people will go broke and others won't. It happens, it's their own fault for over-stretching themselves.

Your logic makes little sense - why would the prices slump in Dublin or any half decent (from a property investment point-of-view) area just because there are empty houses in esates down the country where people dont want to live ? Those estates that were built when the only buyers were speculators and apartments (!) built in places like Tyrellspass (family from there so know it well) where there should never be apartments will come down so much in value over the next while it will sicken you.

However . . .

The market is fragmented - prices will slump in areas like commuter towns and further out but will hold up well in all the major cities, good suburbs etc. There are absolute bargains to be had now in Ringsend, North Wall, East Wall, South Dock, Irishtown, Dublin 8 etc. where houses can be picked from over-leveraged investors who need to sell.

The areas that were the good areas pre-boom are the areas to be looking at - close to public transport, close to the city, close to employment, schools, facilities, parks etc.etc.

That 39bn number is a scare figure, like much in the press the past 2 weeks, it causes a stir but really means little. Now is the time to accumulate assets. But don't buy an apartment in Tyrellspass just becasue it was 300k and is now 190k because . . .

At the end of the day it's still an apartment in Tyrellspass and there shouldn't be apartments in Tyrellpass - it's a f*ckin country town !!

MrLNB

pocketdooz wrote: »

Whatever - it's a market economy - the developers filled a need when it was there and they oversupplied the market and then we entered an economic downturn. Now some will go broke and others won't. Some people will go broke and others won't. It happens, it's their own fault for over-stretching themselves.

Your logic makes little sense - why would the prices slump in Dublin or any half decent (from a property investment point-of-view) area just because there are empty houses in esates down the country where people dont want to live ? Those estates that were built when the only buyers were speculators and apartments (!) built in places like Tyrellspass (family from there so know it well) where there should never be apartments will come down so much in value over the next while it will sicken you.

However . . .

The market is fragmented - prices will slump in areas like commuter towns and further out but will hold up well in all the major cities, good suburbs etc. There are absolute bargains to be had now in Ringsend, North Wall, East Wall, South Dock, Irishtown, Dublin 8 etc. where houses can be picked from over-leveraged investors who need to sell.

The areas that were the good areas pre-boom are the areas to be looking at - close to public transport, close to the city, close to employment, schools, facilities, parks etc.etc.

That 39bn number is a scare figure, like much in the press the past 2 weeks, it causes a stir but really means little. Now is the time to accumulate assets. But don't buy an apartment in Tyrellspass just becasue it was 300k and is now 190k because . . .

At the end of the day it's still an apartment in Tyrellspass and there shouldn't be apartments in Tyrellpass - it's a f*ckin country town !!

I think you just missed my whole point, you seem upset at the same time. .calm down. . .

it doesn't matter where it is, if supply exceeds demand there is going to be a down turn.
What are you talking about,"people dont want to live there:rolleyes:" I say " what people?". . . there are no buyers.. . .again supply has exceed the demand.

Prices in Dublin have dropped just as much as anywhere else!

you missed the one and only point i was making. The banks are in trouble, the Developers have the upperhand on the banks, (if people dont realise this they need to wake up a bit)
If banks need cash they should be twisting the arms of the Developers. The amount of Developers who are falling on repayments is huge, yet they are allowed to let a property sit, which could sell at a price and which then the bank gets paid and lends this cash to you and me. . . .

Maybe your not with me, but it makes sense. I dont know are you from a financial background, but don't write a ratty post just because your lost in the point of view been given.

LNB

Baird

MrLNB wrote: »

I think you just missed my whole point, you seem upset at the same time. .calm down. . .

it doesn't matter where it is, if supply exceeds demand there is going to be a down turn.
What are you talking about,"people dont want to live there:rolleyes:" I say " what people?". . . there are no buyers.. . .again supply has exceed the demand.

Prices in Dublin have dropped just as much as anywhere else!

you missed the one and only point i was making. The banks are in trouble, the Developers have the upperhand on the banks, (if people dont realise this they need to wake up a bit)
If banks need cash they should be twisting the arms of the Developers. The amount of Developers who are falling on repayments is huge, yet they are allowed to let a property sit, which could sell at a price and which then the bank gets paid and lends this cash to you and me. . . .

Maybe your not with me, but it makes sense. I dont know are you from a financial background, but don't write a ratty post just because your lost in the point of view been given.

LNB

Mate your points are unfounded and speculative at best.
Cant really be critical of someone for disagreeing with you when all you are
doing is expressing an opinion rather than conveying any true insight.

MrLNB

Baird wrote: »

Mate your points are unfounded and speculative at best.
Cant really be critical of someone for disagreeing with you when all you are
doing is expressing an opinion rather than conveying any true insight.

unfounded and speculative, thats right, We're not in a recession, its just Matt Cooper and I talking it down:D.

Baird

MrLNB wrote: »

unfounded and speculative, thats right, We're not in a recession, its just Matt Cooper and I talking it down:D.

Points like
"Developers have the upper hand on banks"
"The amount of developers failing on repayments is huge"
are not just speculative they are plain wrong.