...and now Bernhard Kohl

Hungrycol

Yes, another great cyclist admits to doping. Unfortunately it's looking like ALL pro cyclists dope. Once I can come to terms with this I may then be able to move on.

Caroline_ie

:pac: It's like an October Cyclists on Drugs Super Spree!!!

kenmc

"Hi, I've been a cyclist now for a few years, and this is my first time at one of these meetings"

Hungrycol

kenmc wrote: »

"Hi, I've been a cyclist now for a few years, and this is my first time at one of these meetings"

:D:D

petethedrummer

Will Beyonce stick by him now?

tunney

Hungrycol wrote: »

Yes, another great cyclist admits to doping. Unfortunately it's looking like ALL pro cyclists dope. Once I can come to terms with this I may then be able to move on.

I am one of the more cynical people with regard to doping.

However there are some well known clean cyclists. Some clean teams. These teams deserve to be supported, and these riders deserve the respect due to them for riding clean against dirty riders.

scottreynolds

To be honest.... its great he admitted it and didn't go.... Oh the lab stuffed up ala others.

RobFowl

Fair play to him for admitting it and not asking for the B sample. But its frightening how much of an improvement it seems to make !
Crap form in the Dauphine and on the podium and KOM in the TDF pretty much as a direct result.
Roll on the 4 year ban !!

zzzzzzzz

RobFowl wrote: »

Fair play to him for admitting it and not asking for the B sample. But its frightening how much of an improvement it seems to make !
Crap form in the Dauphine and on the podium and KOM in the TDF pretty much as a direct result.
Roll on the 4 year ban !!

As Roche said during the tour - it should be a lifetime ban. otherwise it's probably worth the risk for the younger guys. i.e. Kohl is what, 25? 2 year ban leaves him at 27 - perfect for another run at it without being on the gear

Chips Lovell

aidan.offbeat wrote: »

As Roche said during the tour - it should be a lifetime ban. otherwise it's probably worth the risk for the younger guys. i.e. Kohl is what, 25? 2 year ban leaves him at 27 - perfect for another run at it without being on the gear

Pat McQuaid was quoted in cyclingnews yesterday saying he supported a lifetime ban, but that they had to operate within the WADA framework, which has only recently introduced a maximum of 4 years, something the UCI are going to introduce.

TinyExplosions

I think the ASO should implement a lifetime ban on inviting drug cheats -that'd really put the cat amongst the pigeons if they said "It's our party, if you're found to cheat you will never ride in the tour again" I think it's fair to say that if they came down that hard, it may help things out.... I applaud them for sticking to their guns with Astana, and imagine if they did it to everyone who cheated!

petethedrummer

If its only the rider that gets banned/punished and not the whole team, it should NOT be a lifetime ban. If there was a lifetime ban for the rider, all the teams have to do is get a new guinea pig, dope him up until he fails get another rider, dope him up till he fails, get another rider......... and the cycle continues.

For any doping offence the entire team should be banned for a period of time. This would encourage riders to want to join clean teams and sponsors to back clean teams lest they lose advertising time due to the team being out of action.

zzzzzzzz

petethedrummer wrote: »

If its only the rider that gets banned/punished and not the whole team, it should NOT be a lifetime ban. If there was a lifetime ban for the rider, all the teams have to do is get a new guinea pig, dope him up until he fails get another rider, dope him up till he fails, get another rider......... and the cycle continues.

For any doping offence the entire team should be banned for a period of time. This would encourage riders to want to join clean teams and sponsors to back clean teams lest they lose advertising time due to the team being out of action.

At the end of the day the rider has the ultimate decision on what to put in to his system. I think if they were faced with a life ban there would be a lot less doping in the sport.

I obviously don't agree with teams having systematic doping programs but it's hard enough to catch the dopers let alone uncover the whole doping program within a team.

Chips Lovell

I'm not at all convinced that there is systematic doping on all teams on which dopers are caught. In fact, there's only a handful of top level teams I'd say where this is still the case.

Diarmuid

el tonto wrote: »

Pat McQuaid was quoted in cyclingnews yesterday saying he supported a lifetime ban, but that they had to operate within the WADA framework, which has only recently introduced a maximum of 4 years, something the UCI are going to introduce.

Pat Quaid and UCI should really STFU. They have had 15 years to clean EPO out of cycling but their half hearted attempts and out right denial have helped keep EPO use alive and kicking. I was hoping ASO was going to finally hammer the nail into their coffin but it looks like their are kissing and making up now.

Chips Lovell

Diarmuid wrote: »

Pat Quaid and UCI should really STFU. They have had 15 years to clean EPO out of cycling but their half hearted attempts and out right denial have helped keep EPO use alive and kicking. I was hoping ASO was going to finally hammer the nail into their coffin but it looks like their are kissing and making up now.

I don't know. McQuaid is a very different beast to Verbruggen and he's been left in the unenviable situation of trying to clean up cycling without utterly destroying its reputation. WADA seems serious about its business and being involved with it seems on balance the right way to go.

petethedrummer

aidan.offbeat wrote: »

At the end of the day the rider has the ultimate decision on what to put in to his system. I think if they were faced with a life ban there would be a lot less doping in the sport.

Yes the rider is the one who ultimately makes the decision, but the teams up until now have been forceful and at the very least complicit in this decision.

The teams are regularly measuring their riders blood values, they see them up close, they see how they recover after races and training. They can't be blind to that fact that someone is doping.

SACH Central

The problem in my mind about the doping scandal in this years TdF is this: Are both Sastre & Evans both good enough to beat an EPO'd Khol? It casts a shadow of doubt over the whole race.

I also wonder if the photo's of Khol on the ground in agony after one of the mountain stages - was that 'staged' to make him look realistic?

Either way it just adds to all the suspicion.

dub_skav

SACH Central wrote: »

I also wonder if the photo's of Khol on the ground in agony after one of the mountain stages - was that 'staged' to make him look realistic?

Either way it just adds to all the suspicion.

I don't know as much about cycling as most on here, but I can only imagine that those mountain stages are agony no matter how doped up you are.
I'm sure Blorg, Emty, Tiny and Caroline could let us know just how bad

Edit: No suggestion that any of them were doping merely that they have seen the terrain first-hand recently

petethedrummer

SACH Central wrote: »

The problem in my mind about the doping scandal in this years TdF is this: Are both Sastre & Evans both good enough to beat an EPO'd Khol?

There'd have to be some doubt over Sastre seeing as he's a member of CSC.

Nowadays a rider can't jack his hematocritic level up to 50 or 60% in the middle of a race a la Pantani and Riis. Blood doping has to be much more subtle and controlled. There would be gains but they wouldn't be of the level of the 90s and early 00s.

As for Human Growth Hormone, I dunno. Maybe they should get all the riders shoe sizes from when they were 18 and their current size. That might sort it out. Barry Bonds' (baseball player) shoe size when from 10 1/2 to 13 as a result of HGH use.

The most important thing at the moment is that the power output of the riders is supposedly returning to the level it was in the 80's. So you'd have to imagine that the very fittest clean riders could mix it with the dopers. But someone will say they were all on steroids in the 80s, which maybe true, but it didn't turn donkeys into derby winners like blood doping does.

TinyExplosions

dub_skav wrote: »

I don't know as much about cycling as most on here, but I can only imagine that those mountain stages are agony no matter how doped up you are.
I'm sure Blorg, Emty, Tiny and Caroline could let us know just how bad

The Glandon was easy... dunno if I mentioned it, but I beat Blorg to the top

Seriously though, I was dying on a few of them, and only going at 30-40% of the pace the pro's do (as well as only doing one climb, not 2 or 3 in a 200k stage!)... I can certainly see the attraction of doping if it makes the hurt go quicker.... not that I'd ever do it.... *ahem*

dub_skav

TinyExplosions wrote: »

The Glandon was easy... dunno if I mentioned it, but I beat Blorg to the top

Seriously though, I was dying on a few of them, and only going at 30-40% of the pace the pro's do (as well as only doing one climb, not 2 or 3 in a 200k stage!)... I can certainly see the attraction of doping if it makes the hurt go quicker.... not that I'd ever do it.... *ahem*

I don't think a few bottles of local wine would count as doping

sy

TinyExplosions wrote: »

The Glandon was easy... dunno if I mentioned it, but I beat Blorg to the top

Yes yes you did mention it before. Did he drop his chain or what!:)

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Seriously though, I was dying on a few of them, and only going at 30-40% of the pace the pro's do (as well as only doing one climb, not 2 or 3 in a 200k stage!)... I can certainly see the attraction of doping if it makes the hurt go quicker.... not that I'd ever do it.... *ahem*

You must also take into account the HEAT in mid summer:eek:. I found that factor was more draining than the actual climbs themselves. Mind you that was when we used a 42 inner ring! in the age before EPO!
Seems you all had a great time Tiny

Chips Lovell

Now next year's Deutschland Tour has been cancelled due to Schumacher and Kohl's antics.

Raam

el tonto wrote: »

Now next year's Deutschland Tour has been cancelled due to Schumacher and Kohl's antics.

It's unfortunate, but this is probably an effective way to try clean up the sport.

Diarmuid

Well Kohl has decided to hang up his boots at 26, even though his ban would have allowed him back at 28.

However if anyone is still in denial about this state of doping he had a few things to say

"I doped voluntarily in a system in which you cannot win without doping,"

Kohl has admitted using the drug, and for receiving blood transfusions during the Tour de France. He stated that he started doping when he was just 19 years old as part of an institutionalised system.

>>>>the full article here>>>>

Chips Lovell

Kohl's recent statements have the potential to blow the doors off a lot of well kept secrets. He's been saying a lot more than even Jaschke has.

His admission that he was treated Humanplasma clinic could be massive.

Diarmuid

el tonto wrote: »

Kohl's recent statements have the potential to blow the doors off a lot of well kept secrets.

The doors were blown off the secrets a long time ago.Unfortunately not much else has changed.

Chips Lovell

Diarmuid wrote: »

The doors were blown off the secrets a long time ago.Unfortunately not much else has changed.

Well I think there's a current of opinion among a lot of cycling fans that there's so much testing now that people don't get caught.

The sum total of Kohl's admission is that you can dope away and if you do it right, you'll never test positive.

niceonetom

I very nearlt lost my beloved Gerolsteiner KOM hat on Sunday. It fell out of my back pocket somewhere on the audax but was returned to me by a fellow rider. I would have been gutted to loose it, I reckon it takes 15 seconds of my Kippure time.