Monitors - Recommendations

Seany

Lads,

Seems an impossible task as there is so much choice out there but can anyone recommend a good set of monitors?

Budget would be €300-€500 and would consider new and second hand. I have only recently begun using a protools set up at home and want to get more experience mixing.

Cheers,
Seany

PaulBrewer

Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,Yamaha NS10s,

PaulBrewer

You'd need a decent amp to drive them with though .... Ebay

TelePaul

I hear the Yamaha NS10s are good...

Seany

So that would be ns10's then Paul?

Do the come in powered set? I'm clueless when it comes to this so what amp should I be looking at?

PaulBrewer

Seany wrote: »

So that would be ns10's then Paul?

Do the come in powered set? I'm clueless when it comes to this so what amp should I be looking at?

No, secondhand only too, though replacement drivers are still available.

I don't really know much about amps, 'cept for Bryston which cost a bomb. I do recall Tweeky uses a Yamaha amp he reckoned was cheap and posted about it recently.

Nyquistic

I think the most important thing to remember is that everyone's ears are different. At the end of the day, nobody can recommend any type of monitor for you specifically because they don't have your ears. The NS10's are usually recommended because they're all over the place, and that makes it possible to compare mixes in different studios ... well, at least it removes one of the variables. If you're considering NS10's, do yourself a favour and read the excellent article in September's Sound On Sound first.

I'm not going to say what I use ... for the above reason. But rest assured you'd be surprised. I am. Use your ears, not your eyes, and beware the green-eyed monster.

If you're looking for a good but inexpensive power amp for them, consider the Behringer A500 Reference Amplifier. Bear in mind most monitors sold for home use are powered (built-in amps) so the NS10's + amp will blow your budget ....

[EDIT] It just struck me that this is an area where shops could offer something the internet can not ... you can't hear what monitors sound like by mail order. Yeah, I know, people could do their listening tests in the store and then order on the net ... but we'd never be that mean, would we? I for one would be prepared to pay 15-20% more for the opportunity to try things like monitors out, get some good advice and perhaps have a right to exchange something that didn't work in the room.

PaulBrewer

I think the most important thing to remember is that everyone's ears are different.

I suppose that is true though really the difference in monitors is huge, no two brands sounding the same. This particularly true in the cheap end where all sorts of loopy tricks are used to bamboozle the inexperienced.
As a rule I've found that people do agree on what is being heard, but can often disagree on whether they like it or not.

The NS10's are usually recommended because they're all over the place, and that makes it possible to compare mixes in different studios ...

I'd look at that point in a different way, namely the reason they're recommended is they do a particular job very well and THAT'S why they're in so many studios!

If you're considering NS10's, do yourself a favour and read the excellent article in September's Sound On Sound first.

My above point is explained well in the article referenced above.

I think an oul battered pair of NS10s even with any ole amp will get you more into the ballpark than anything I've heard in the Sub Euro 500 range.

That also gives you somewhere to go in the future i.e. better amp, new drivers etc.

I'd love to sell you some new monitors, but not in that price range!!

PaulBrewer

Have a look here for a few more thoughts on the subject ....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055315586

i57dwun4yb1pt8

christ , I hate the sound of those NS10 b@stards .
may as well play it thru a phone ear piece.

and having ns10s in one studio and in another doesnt make them sound the same unless the mix rooms are identical and treated identical.

id like a pair to use as a 2nd opinion , but for a beginner I reckon the cheaper genelcs , mackie or even the wharefedale diamond pro actives work better
( as long as the room is treated well )

make sure your room is tuned before you blow money on monitors - better off with good phones , than good monitors in a sh!t room .

seannash

DaDumTish wrote: »

christ , I hate the sound of those NS10 b@stards .
may as well play it thru a phone ear piece.

and having ns10s in one studio and in another doesnt make them sound the same unless the mix rooms are identical and treated identical.

id like a pair to use as a 2nd opinion , but for a beginner I reckon the cheaper genelcs , mackie or even the wharefedale diamond pro actives work better
( as long as the room is treated well )

make sure your room is tuned before you blow money on monitors - better off with good phones , than good monitors in a sh!t room .

have to disagree about better a good set of headphones than monitors in a non tuned room.
you just gotts learn your room.my room is possibly the worst type of room(small,rectangular box) but you figure stuff out.headphone just wont give you the same results as a decent set of monitors imo.
but this is a topic that could go on for ages.look up sound on sound reviews

PaulBrewer

I hate the sound of those NS10 b@stards .
may as well play it thru a phone ear piece.

They're job isn't to sound good but to assist you in making correct decisions. At this they're terrific. That's why they get used so much in mixing which is the OP's area of interest.

That SOS article mentioned by a previous poster goes a long way to explain the tech reasons why they're so popular and so useful. 'Enjoying' them isn't high up the list!

and having ns10s in one studio and in another doesnt make them sound the same unless the mix rooms are identical and treated identical.

True, but no one said that was the case !

I also think that if you get a set now, you'll still be using them in 10 years time, that probably won't be the case with the Mackies for example.

tweeky

DaDumTish wrote: »

and having ns10s in one studio and in another doesnt make them sound the same unless the mix rooms are identical and treated identical.

id like a pair to use as a 2nd opinion , but for a beginner I reckon the cheaper genelcs , mackie or even the wharefedale diamond pro actives work better
( as long as the room is treated well )

I have heard some dodgy NS10's in my time but the main reason they can sound different is due to poor amplification, they need lots of power!
I usually bring my own amp if the quality of power amp falls below Quad,Yamaha,Crown,Bryston etc. The previously mentioned Behringer is a "buy cheap buy twice" senario, better to buy a secondhand Quad 405-2 or Yamaha P2050 (around 250 euro).
NS10s with the right amp will be a fine reference monitor, the Genelecs and Mackies are quite flattering for beginners & The Warfedales are hi-fi speakers with amps built in.

banquo

Stay away from Tannoy reveal series. They're around 500e for a pair and absolute ****. The bass is waaay to heavy, you can't hear it at all on a normal stereo then.

Also: I bought the pair. The left one broke. Replaced in weeks. The right one broke. hey won't replace it because apparantly you ''only get one replacement monitor''.

Stay away from Tannoy. That's a good lad.

*Tuffles hair*

PaulBrewer

banquo wrote: »

''only get one replacement monitor''.

That's a load of ball ox. I'd be revisiting that problem.

The main things the Reveals reveal is that they're cack.

fitz

I've a pair of Yamaha HS50M's, which I've very pleased with. They're based on the NS10's, and like Paul said, the help you make decisions. I'd prefer the HS80M's, which are at the top end of your budget. Both worth a look.

Seany

Thanks for the replies lads...seems i've opened a can of worms here.

For the moment my room will not be treated..It is early days for me and I am really only starting to look at putting together a decent enough home studio. Perhaps I need to alter my budget? I would rather not spend crazy money on monitors at this stage however I would like to buy right instead of ahving to spend the cash again in 2/3 years time.

My plan is to get better at mixing and would like to purchase monitors that give me an accurate indication of the real mix instead of sounding great in studio and piss poor on car/home stereo.

Cheers Fitz...I have checked Thomann and their most popular active nearfield monitors seem to be theYamaha HS80M which would come in within budget. I might pop over to xmusic and see what else they have on offer. I'll also check out that article in sound on sound.

PaulBrewer

fitz wrote: »

I've a pair of Yamaha HS50M's, which I've very pleased with. They're based on the NS10's, and like Paul said, the help you make decisions. I'd prefer the HS80M's, which are at the top end of your budget. Both worth a look.

The HS aren't based on the NS10 as they use a ported cab. (though they do use a white cone!) That's a critical difference against a sealed cab. The sealed cab is one of the things that make the NS10s work so well.

PaulBrewer

For the moment my room will not be treated..It is early days for me and I am really only starting to look at putting together a decent enough home studio. Perhaps I need to alter my budget?

I got a good sounding set of NS10s for E375 on the Ebay. stick a few hundred for that yamaha amp Tweeky suggested and yer buzzin. I

would rather not spend crazy money on monitors at this stage however I would like to buy right instead of ahving to spend the cash again in 2/3 years time.

That's the only way to shop in my opinion.

My plan is to get better at mixing and would like to purchase monitors that give me an accurate indication of the real mix instead of sounding great in studio and piss poor on car/home stereo.

Good practical thinking, I reckon.

Cheers Fitz...I have checked Thomann and their most popular active nearfield monitors seem to be theYamaha HS80M which would come in within budget. I might pop over to xmusic and see what else they have on offer. [/QUOTE]

Popular don't mean good! .... however popular don't mean bad either!

teamdresch

Knowing what I know now, I'd buy NS10s and an amp in your position.
Then a year or two down the line, if things are still going well, drop upwards of a grand on some really decent monitors. By that time you should have an idea of when slightly more flattering monitors than the NS10s are lying to you.

PaulBrewer

teamdresch wrote: »

Knowing what I know now, I'd buy NS10s and an amp in your position.
Then a year or two down the line, if things are still going well, drop upwards of a grand on some really decent monitors. By that time you should have an idea of when slightly more flattering monitors than the NS10s are lying to you.

Aye!

i57dwun4yb1pt8

seannash wrote: »

have to disagree about better a good set of headphones than monitors in a non tuned room.
you just gotts learn your room.my room is possibly the worst type of room(small,rectangular box) but you figure stuff out.headphone just wont give you the same results as a decent set of monitors imo.
but this is a topic that could go on for ages.look up sound on sound reviews

well, if you can learn the room thats good , but I doubt you are able to learn a room that may have serious comb filter effects , in the bass end , where you may have a peak / cancellations at modal points , every 10 or 20 hz up to 500 hz.

youd want to be a pretty special mixer to do that.

I would spend 200 - 300 euro on treating the room , then go with a mid range flat (ish ) monitor - instead of an untreated room and NS10'S - your just asking for trouble there.

far as i recall ns10s actually SOUND like an untreated room , so using them in one is going to double the issue.

at least do a scan of your room to find out where the acosutic issues are at minimum.

PaulBrewer

DaDumTish wrote: »

far as i recall ns10s actually SOUND like an untreated room , so using them in one is going to double the issue.

Huh?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

its just a rough analogy !
basically - in a badly treated room ( say loads of carpet but no bass trapping )
you will have a thin sounding midrangy speaker response due to the heavy comb filtering - to me an NS10 sounds like this - in your face midrangy

ie to make it sound good you need to put a smily eq into it , boost the low and the high end ,

is this not so ?

PaulBrewer

DaDumTish wrote: »

its just a rough analogy !
basically - in a badly treated room ( say loads of carpet but no bass trapping )
you will have a thin sounding midrangy speaker response due to the heavy comb filtering - to me an NS10 sounds like this - in your face midrangy

ie to make it sound good you need to put a smily eq into it , boost the low and the high end ,

is this not so ?

Ah, in a word, No! Read that bleedin' SOS article and stop talkin' nonsense will ya!;)

i57dwun4yb1pt8

maybe the ones i heard were always broken - always sounded midrangy honky and brash to me :pac:

PaulBrewer

You do need a good amp ok, and they do wear out.