What I saw today!

chem

Hi all. Was in the mates gunshop today and took a some pics of some of the stuff he has on offer. All live and shootable

Enjoy!

chem

Next stop the range

meathstevie

If that's a genuine Mauser broomhandle and a genuine 08 they're worth a few bob.

chem

meathstevie wrote: »

If that's a genuine Mauser broomhandle and a genuine 08 they're worth a few bob.

Both genuine. P08 is 1918 and the broom handle is from 1910. Never fired!!! and belonged to some lord who had to sell some of his collection, to pay for damage to his roof.

This is only some of the pics I took. And would of taken more only my bats in the camera died!

Grizzly 45

Chem,
Are the FAL and CAR genuine original cals,or are they modified to 22LR??
PM sent to you.
Regds
Grizz

Rovi

Thanks for posting the pictures chem, they're something else; it's great to see those guns still in working order.


The official bit:
<mod hat>
Can I gently remind everyone of Item 4 of the Shooting > For Sale/Wanted Charter?:
"4. No commercial selling
adverts.ie does not make a profit from its users; neither will any other company. If you wish to engage in commercial interaction, please contact one of the Administrators. The Consumer Information Advertisements Disclosure of Business Interests Order 1984 (Republic of Ireland) requires all advertisements from persons selling goods in the course of a business to make that fact clear. This requirement applies whether the advertiser is acting on his own behalf or for some other person in the course of whose business goods are to be sold."

Everyone: please don't be leading the OP into an 'occasion of sin' by asking in thread for contact details of the gun dealer, or for asking prices for the guns.
The site owners take 'commercial selling' very seriously, so let's not incur their wrath by turning this thread into such.
</mod hat>


chem: get those batteries charged and get back there!

meathstevie

The FAL looks like a very early one as well.

mannlicher

Wow!

When I saw the Mauser K98 sniper I was impressed.

When I saw the wood stocked Fal.......almost spilt my tea.

When I saw the Garand M1, I nearly fell over.

Wonderful to see these old guns back in shooting condition.

Those three classics deserve a better fate than to be neutered and hung on a wall!

BryanL

are these in England? just wondering with it being a Lord and Chem using the term mate. It's unlikely they have lasted in Ireland through the 70's repo.Bryan

bullets

Drool!!!!!!!
If only I had **** loads of money and the patients to to try and aquire such beautys here in backwards Ireland.

~B

chem

Some good news for all! They are in Ireland (shocked face smilie not working) all in original cal, apart from the MP5 lookalike, thats in .22lr semi.

Fal and CAR are straight pull. Fal is original but with the gas rod removed and hole welded so its not semi.

I didnt even get to take pics of the revolvers and pistols. Webleys, Colt 1911 original WW2, .455 enfield etc.

Sorry about the posting of price Rovi, was not thinking! Next time I`ll bring a bag full of batteries! Taking them to the range. Oh yea

Sikamick

Chem, some nice classic firearms in the pictures, I 'd say some of the lads in The Vintage Classic Rifle Association of Ireland would interested.

Sikamick

chem

Sub machine guns are de-acts but blankfire versions can be got for re-enactment so im told!

Jonty

I think that its a British SLR not a FN FAL

tiny-nioclas

Whts the story with de-activated guns in ireland? can anyone just buy one? or do you need a special licence? some lovely pieces there chem cheers for teasing us

Grizzly 45

You need written authorisation from da Super Man.
As such it is not a FAC ASFIK more a letter that states what it is and the serial number.Proably easier to get if you already have a live firearm on ticket,as it then shows they have already vetted you,and you are unlikely to do anything daft with this fire...er..high tech club.;)

tiny-nioclas

Ha Ha so my dreams of owning a Dragunov or a Romanian style AK-47 might come true!??

mannlicher

More wows.

A mannlicher straight pull, probably 8 x 56.

A HK G3. Notice I didn't say HK91 which they marketed for a while. Different mag release on that, button rather than flap.

Those pics make me happy I'm a gun nerd;)

Grizzly 45

tiny-nioclas wrote: »

Ha Ha so my dreams of owning a Dragunov or a Romanian style AK-47 might come true!??

Indeed,why not apply for either live first in either SEMI or straight pull,and have a shooting wall hanger?Takes about as much hassle either way.:)
Mannlicher
HK91 was the civvie semi version of G3.,and it did have the,or could be orderd with the paddle release.[In the USaround 1989,cost 1800 Dollars for the basic rifle then:eek:]
The big giveaway was the furniture.G3 was issued standard in Green,and with the "slimline" fore end to the German army. That one has the "tropical" forend that could take the Bi pod. So this G3 in the pics has some intresting history all right.

chem

Glad yiz all liked the pics. Some real jems there alright. If I was allowed by the other half, our bedroom would look alot like the gun room in the shop Its all living history and its a shame that we dont have a collectors licence here!

Grizzly 45

Its all living history and its a shame that we dont have a collectors licence here!

+1 FACT!!!:(.Somthing maybe the FCP could suggest to DOJ??

bullets

tiny-nioclas wrote: »

Whts the story with de-activated guns in ireland? can anyone just buy one? or do you need a special licence? some lovely pieces there chem cheers for teasing us

+1 more for a collectors licence. it would be nice for people with an interest
in militeria to be able to collect without having to worry about grey areas in the law.
Things like empty brass cases, insert ammo, inert grenades etc and de-acts etc could
finaly be collected withouth any worry about wondering if your breaking the law or not.

Chem can correct anything that I've said below that
is untrue................Im only going on guess work and
unreliable memories......

I've heard that for a de-act if you buy one from a dealer
within Ireland itself that you dont need anything at all,
and dont need to do anything special.

I've also heard that to import a de-activated firearm
into Ireland from outside of Ireland that you need do get
some form of de-activation certificate that needs to be supplied to your Local Super in order for permission to
have the said lovely item. (Dont have proof to confirm this though)

Someone maybe it was Chem mentioned before on another thread about the breech block and slide etc needed to be cut and holes drilled in barrels.

As far as I know there are different standards of de-activation. The Newer methods "I think" may involve
welding the mechinism inside so it cant move.

Older style's may have had the barell plugged but the action could be cocked etc and the de-act could be field stripped. (which I personally would prefer)

There was some news a few months back where some German suppliers of de-acts went wielding internals together when they did not need to due to some brittish
new legistlation when they did not need to do this if supplying to Ireland. Again apolagess I'm only going on
heresay and not cold hard facts.

~B

Red Renard

chem wrote: »

Glad yiz all liked the pics. Some real jems there alright. If I was allowed by the other half, our bedroom would look alot like the gun room in the shop Its all living history and its a shame that we dont have a collectors licence here!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFKlwWC4330

meathstevie

Jonty wrote: »

I think that its a British SLR not a FN FAL

Wouldn't make any difference in this case anyway as I believe this one is converted to straightpull. As far as I know the only difference between a FAL and an SLR is full auto capability. Anyway, so far for a bit of triviality.

Rew

meathstevie wrote: »

Wouldn't make any difference in this case anyway as I believe this one is converted to straightpull. As far as I know the only difference between a FAL and an SLR is full auto capability. Anyway, so far for a bit of triviality.

Not quite the FAL is metric built and the SLR was built to imperial measuements so there are slight differneces (I belive).

chem

bullets wrote: »

+1 more for a collectors licence. it would be nice for people with an interest
in militeria to be able to collect without having to worry about grey areas in the law.
Things like empty brass cases, insert ammo, inert grenades etc and de-acts etc could
finaly be collected withouth any worry about wondering if your breaking the law or not.

Chem can correct anything that I've said below that
is untrue................Im only going on guess work and
unreliable memories......

I've heard that for a de-act if you buy one from a dealer
within Ireland itself that you dont need anything at all,
and dont need to do anything special.

I've also heard that to import a de-activated firearm
into Ireland from outside of Ireland that you need do get
some form of de-activation certificate that needs to be supplied to your Local Super in order for permission to
have the said lovely item. (Dont have proof to confirm this though)

Someone maybe it was Chem mentioned before on another thread about the breech block and slide etc needed to be cut and holes drilled in barrels.

As far as I know there are different standards of de-activation. The Newer methods "I think" may involve
welding the mechinism inside so it cant move.

Older style's may have had the barell plugged but the action could be cocked etc and the de-act could be field stripped. (which I personally would prefer)

There was some news a few months back where some German suppliers of de-acts went wielding internals together when they did not need to due to some brittish
new legistlation when they did not need to do this if supplying to Ireland. Again apolagess I'm only going on
heresay and not cold hard facts.

~B

Hi bullets. Im no expert but you are right about the gray areas. Eg: you can have a letter from your super saying you can have a de-act, but you have to import it as if it were a live firearm. Its then sent away for testing inspection etc. It might take weeks/months. But in the end if its seen as OK you get it and your cert.

Problem is most of the items we see here are UK de-acts (cut to bits).

What id like to see is a collectors licence to allow collectors buy live firearms. Maybe have the cut off year of 1945?? Or items of historic interest.

In a perfect world where common scence was common. It would happen. But I feel we will lose more then we will ever gain in the future!

meathstevie

There's a clutter of differences beside the selective fire vs. semi-auto allright Rew, especially with the later versions of the British SLR : different synthetic forend, adjustable stock ( replaceable butt plate ) etc. but they both fire 7.62mm NATO ammo.

harly1516

Hi lads I live in Tallaght about 6 years ago I got an old hammer 12 gauge shot gun working perfect for the wall I put two cuts in the chamber and two plugs welded into the barrells and welded the fireing pins went up to see the sarg he had a look and gave me a cert from the supper no probs at all.
A few months ago I went to the north and bought a mauser 98 deact with the uk cert back up to the sarg and no prob at all two lovely wall hangers

chem

harly1516 wrote: »

Hi lads I live in Tallaght about 6 years ago I got an old hammer 12 gauge shot gun working perfect for the wall I put two cuts in the chamber and two plugs welded into the barrells and welded the fireing pins went up to see the sarg he had a look and gave me a cert from the supper no probs at all.
A few months ago I went to the north and bought a mauser 98 deact with the uk cert back up to the sarg and no prob at all two lovely wall hangers

Lucky for you Harly! Point is if it was a different station you might of been asked where you got the 12 gauge in the 1st place. Did you have a licence for it? etc..... and you imported a k98 from another country without going trough the DOJ. This is the gray area!!!

Some years ago I saked the DOJ about importing an SMLE as a wall hanger. I was told it would have to be ballistic tested to see if it was used in a crime! So they were telling me that they would have to shoot a round down a blocked, cut barrel. And they were going to fire the round from a firing pinless bolt cut at 45 degrees.

mannlicher

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Indeed,why not apply for either live first in either SEMI or straight pull,and have a shooting wall hanger?Takes about as much hassle either way.:)

Semi auto would be perfect. That FAL and the Garand are fantastic. If the FAL was seen from the left, we'd see the cocking lever. If it is the folding type then that would confirm that it is a Commonwealth ie Inch Pattern FAL, what the British called their SLR. It looks to me like the sights are a little higher than in the Metric Fal such as the Imbel that I believe is the actual version that the Irish army used.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Mannlicher
HK91 was the civvie semi version of G3.,and it did have the,or could be orderd with the paddle release.[In the USaround 1989,cost 1800 Dollars for the basic rifle then:eek:]
The big giveaway was the furniture.G3 was issued standard in Green,and with the "slimline" fore end to the German army. That one has the "tropical" forend that could take the Bi pod. So this G3 in the pics has some intresting history all right.

Thanks for the info Grizzly!

I think some of the earlier semi auto G3s imported into the US were with the paddle release, and called the HK41, but am open to correction on that. Apparently the BATF decided to make up the rules as they went along, and declared further import of that variation illegal. Decided that you could convert it too easily to full auto with drop in trigger module from the military version, as if you'd actually hit anything. So the revised civilian version, now called the HK91 had an altered reciever that wouldn't accept drop in full auto trigger group. Whatever changes they made in the new reciever to make it impossible to convert, resulted in the change to the button release on the right side, like the AR15.

I didn't know anything about the colours!

mannlicher

chem wrote: »

Lucky for you Harly! Point is if it was a different station you might of been asked where you got the 12 gauge in the 1st place. Did you have a licence for it? etc..... and you imported a k98 from another country without going trough the DOJ. This is the gray area!!!

Some years ago I saked the DOJ about importing an SMLE as a wall hanger. I was told it would have to be ballistic tested to see if it was used in a crime! So they were telling me that they would have to shoot a round down a blocked, cut barrel. And they were going to fire the round from a firing pinless bolt cut at 45 degrees.

Wow, clueless!

Sad tho' to think of old warhorses being neutered like that. They were built to be durable. I was reading somewhere on the net last year about two MOD Lee Enfields that burst their barrels a few years ago. Turned out that they had each fired approx 250,000 corrosive rounds! Must have been smoothbores unless they went through a lot of barrels.

The Cadets didn't clean them properly and the barrels eventually were so pitted that they gave way. They should have been buried with full military honours!

The Actions were still ok! I believe that in the Garand the design life of the receiver was 400,000 rounds, a HELL of a lot of barrels.

meathstevie

The Enfields designed for the corrosive ammo had a little funnel in the original cleaning kit to poor boiling water through the barrel as far as I know. Must have been a bit of a job giving them a good cleaning compared to a bit of oil or solvent and a couple of sweeps with a boresnake nowadays...

Grizzly 45

Thanks for the info Grizzly!

I think some of the earlier semi auto G3s imported into the US were with the paddle release, and called the HK41,

Cant see how that was the HK41 was/is a Light belt fed machine gun.

.

Apparently the BATF decided to make up the rules as they went along, and declared further import of that variation illegal.

That would be about right!:rolleyes:

Decided that you could convert it too easily to full auto with drop in trigger module from the military version, as if you'd actually hit anything.

Well,That would have to include the bolt,bolt carrier,select trigger mechanism.
Which are now commonly available over there in Kit gun config for spares,or being made in the US,by various companies to beat the 5 US parts rule. or Pakistan.

So the revised civilian version, now called the HK91 had an altered reciever that wouldn't accept drop in full auto trigger group. Whatever changes they made in the new reciever to make it impossible to convert,

Yeah for about 12 months.Then plenty of bright sparks had come up with the "how to " convert to full auto books which showed how to convert the HK 91 to full auto.And it wasnt that hard either for a good machineist with a full machine shop.All you were doing was modifying the trigger pack,and HK91 bolt to G3 configurations.The Hk reciver stayed the same.The button,paddle release was irrevelant as the original HKs 91 still had them,
This was still pre the 1986 new machine gun registration ban.Post 86 it became a "Club Fed "Holiday of ten years:eek:The Assault weapons ban of 1994.Didnt allow for the import of "Assault rifles
".So there were sportiserised versions imported,without many of the evil features that scared wolly headed gun banners,so in some cases the paddle release was removed.

BornToKill

chem wrote: »

Some years ago I saked the DOJ about importing an SMLE as a wall hanger. I was told it would have to be ballistic tested to see if it was used in a crime! So they were telling me that they would have to shoot a round down a blocked, cut barrel.

Any chance you misunderstood that Chem? It would be common enough for Ballistics to be sent a deact to examine it and confirm that it cannot be easily re-activated. Not to test fire it but to confirm it could not be fired.

chem

BornToKill wrote: »

Any chance you misunderstood that Chem? It would be common enough for Ballistics to be sent a deact to examine it and confirm that it cannot be easily re-activated. Not to test fire it but to confirm it could not be fired.

No BTK. The bloke the other end of the phone said it would have to be test fired to see if it was used in a crime! even after me saying it was a UK de-act inc cert.

mannlicher

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Cant see how that was the HK41 was/is a Light belt fed machine gun.

The HK41 is a rifle:

http://www.hkpro.com/hk41/hk41.htm

and:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK91

Are you thinking of the HK21?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The button,paddle release was irrevelant as the original HKs 91 still had them,

To select from the first link:

.........As a result, engineers at Heckler & Koch, GmbH modified the design of the receiver used on the 1974 model HK41 by eliminating the “push-pin” hole altogether, thereby also removing the associated magazine paddle release lever (more commonly referred to as a “flapper”) that was an intrinsic part of the retaining-pin hole and bushing design. The redundant pushbutton located on the right-hand side of the receiver remained in place and now functioned as the sole magazine release mechanism. A solid U-shaped metal block was welded in place at the base of the receiver to prevent the attachment of a HKG3 “SEF” select fire, automatic trigger housing. This change now offered a more visible gauge for ATF Field Agents to determine whether or not the weapon has been illegally modified to accommodate the attachment of an automatic “lower” trigger group, and is currently used by the BATF Technology Branch as the sole rule to differentiate between a HK semiautomatic and automatic weapon. (Although the 1966 model HK41 with a “push-pin” design is grand-fathered as an approved NFA, Title I firearm; Heckler & Koch’s semiautomatic MSG90 sniper rifle introduced in 1990 is considered by the BATF to be a NFA, Title II “machine gun” based on this criterion.) Additional changes were also made to the HK41 rifles manufactured in 1974 to prevent the attachment of a rifle-propelled grenade and fixed bayonet. The mandated re-design of the receiver’s attachment point and removal of the snap-rings located on the barrel for the attachment of a grenade appears on all HK41s manufactured in 1974, and was subsequently incorporated on all civilian H&K semiautomatic rifles (and Hellenic SARs manufactured under a licensing agreement with Heckler & Koch, GmbH) produced thereafter for importation into the United States. Heckler & Koch’s original “push-pin” design continued to be used exclusively on their series of select fire, automatic weapons that remained only available for sale to military, law enforcement agencies, and authorized Class 3 dealers licensed to import and sell NFA, Title II firearms......


As a result, engineers at Heckler & Koch, GmbH modified the design of the receiver used on the 1974 model HK41 by eliminating the “push-pin” hole altogether, thereby also removing the associated magazine paddle release lever (more commonly referred to as a “flapper”) that was an intrinsic part of the retaining-pin hole and bushing design. The redundant pushbutton located on the right-hand side of the receiver remained in place and now functioned as the sole magazine release mechanism. A solid U-shaped metal block was welded in place at the base of the receiver to prevent the attachment of a HKG3 “SEF” select fire, automatic trigger housing. This change now offered a more visible gauge for ATF Field Agents to determine whether or not the weapon has been illegally modified to accommodate the attachment of an automatic “lower” trigger group, and is currently used by the BATF Technology Branch as the sole rule to differentiate between a HK semiautomatic and automatic weapon. (Although the 1966 model HK41 with a “push-pin” design is grand-fathered as an approved NFA, Title I firearm; Heckler & Koch’s semiautomatic MSG90 sniper rifle introduced in 1990 is considered by the BATF to be a NFA, Title II “machine gun” based on this criterion.) Additional changes were also made to the HK41 rifles manufactured in 1974 to prevent the attachment of a rifle-propelled grenade and fixed bayonet. The mandated re-design of the receiver’s attachment point and removal of the snap-rings located on the barrel for the attachment of a grenade appears on all HK41s manufactured in 1974, and was subsequently incorporated on all civilian H&K semiautomatic rifles (and Hellenic SARs manufactured under a licensing agreement with Heckler & Koch, GmbH) produced thereafter for importation into the United States. Heckler & Koch’s original “push-pin” design continued to be used exclusively on their series of select fire, automatic weapons that remained only available for sale to military, law enforcement agencies, and authorized Class 3 dealers licensed to import and sell NFA, Title II firearms.

1966 model HK41 receiver
with “push-pin” hole


1974 model HK41 receiver
without “push-pin” hole

COMPARISONS BETWEEN THE HK G3 AND 1966 MODEL HK41

Grizzly 45

Well you live and learn...Thanks Mannlicher for the link and info...Hmmm very intresting that,so all those years ago somone was trying to flog me a dodgy HK rifle in the US!!!:eek::eek:

mannlicher

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well you live and learn...Thanks Mannlicher for the link and info...Hmmm very intresting that,so all those years ago somone was trying to flog me a dodgy HK rifle in the US!!!:eek::eek:

It is possible that during the transition, a HK receiver could have been marked 91 while still retaining the flapper catch. In the photos above both are marked 41, but the second lacks the flapper mag release. So there is some mismatch between the nomenclature and the changes.

For example, I believe they even marked some late HK91s as HK911 just to get them imported into the States after a sudden change in the list of politically incorrect firearms not to be imported.

So it could have been a genuine HK. If it was, it would have been a great prize. Virtually indestructable in normal use, very accurate if the target trigger group was dropped in. Even a 22 conversion was available. Think of the look on the rabbits' faces;)

Even with the tig welds and stamped construction, one way to distinguish between a HK and a CETME of that era is the rear sight, the HK having a rotary setup with apertures around a tilted drum that was turned in a vertical axis to effect range changes. The CETME had a series of apertures in a sort of propeller that you rotated about a horizontal axis to do the same job.

chem

I was out again today!
And if someone can tell me how to upload an avi file i have a real treat to show:D;)

mannlicher

The AK47 I like!

The tank looks like a gas guzzler;)

Is it a Pershing M26?

meathstevie

Sweet lantering jeezes, have you been visiting Osama's cave ?

pullandbang

Looks like one of the bunkers that General DeChastelaine missed on his holidays up north:D

chem

Tank is a hellcat and is worth £250,000 not sure how much it is to tax:D two miles to the gallon or was that one mile to two gallons! Not sure.

I was up north today alright:D I was just thinking on my way home. What if id run into a garda check point!!

Garda: where you coming from?

Chem: well I was up north in this place, with lots of shells,guns,tanks and I helped set up some explosive charges, while there and.............dragged from car into garda car, hand cuffed and pepper sprayed.

Garda: you have the right to remain silent............

Anyone know about putting up avi links on here?

IRLConor

chem wrote: »

And if someone can tell me how to upload an avi file i have a real treat to show:D;)

Upload the video to YouTube and then you can embed it here. PM me if you need a hand.

chem

IRLConor wrote: »

Upload the video to YouTube and then you can embed it here. PM me if you need a hand.

Good thinking IRL. Follow this link and see what I was up to today:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHUc_eHmAPg

kerryman12

keep those Pic's coming Chem, amazing to see them.

meathstevie

chem wrote: »

Good thinking IRL. Follow this link and see what I was up to today:D

You lucky swine.:D You must have felt like a 7 year old on Christmas morning

chem

meathstevie wrote: »

You lucky swine.:D You must have felt like a 7 year old on Christmas morning

It was like all my christmas mornings in one:D:D

Takes alot longer to fill the mag with the 30 rounds then it did to fire them;)

He also had a russian PPS 42 converted to 9mm. It spits out rounds like a sneez. zzzzzzzzzzz empty mag:eek: