Irish Banter Verses Racism.

Mr. Incognito

I know Work and Jobs doesn't really get a wider audience so I thought I'd post this in AH to get a wider view on it.

OP is foreign and leaves work-place to what she percieves as bullying and insulting behaviour.

Irish HR individual suggests perhaps it's Irish banter.

I'd banter a bit myself but not in a work environment.

Do people think that Irish banter goes down as racism to foreign people? I'd love to hear people's own experience on this.

and before anyone bothes, yes my Ma.

Here's the thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055390617

Mena

I think to some it does to some extent. Me, I'm not bothered and to be fair, I give better than I receive

However there would be no place for "Irish Banter" or anything of the sort between a manager and an employee in my view. It treads on dangerous ground.

I'd press complaints against the HR manager. You can call it what you want, bullying is still bullying and should be sorted instead of making excuses for it.

chin_grin

Similar thing happened to me, well kinda. The team was in the local after a hard days and the (then) team lead thought I was a <derogatory comment regarding someone who wears a certain garment on their head>. Needless to say I'm a bit gruff (bit of a beard,dark skinned). I found this very insulting but just took it in my stride. Man was a c*ck. And my current boss. Didn't want to start something I'd regret.

But this was different, it was a pub. It would be construed as 'banter'. But in the workplace? That wouldn't fly.

suspectdevice

bullying in a work environment is a failure of the hr department. but hr departments are some of the biggest bullies out there, bunch of kgb operatives for the company

Caoimhín

Ive been on the receiving end of "friendly xenophobic banter" in work before (in England), and tbh its shoitty enough having to go to work without having to listen to crap like that.

There is a very fine line between banter and being offensive. I think its best to maintain a professional relationship with all workers and leave the banter for your Saturday night with your friends in the boozer.

getz

a bit of banter is ok as long as it on both sides -banter one way is bullying

DonkeyStyle \o/

What annoys me are people who can think of something witty to say so rarely, that when they do, they get over-excited and have to blurt it out to show everyone how big and clever they are... regardless of how it might be taken.
And then there are the people who'll use banter to mask their hostility.
I think you need to know someone very well before starting banter that could be taken badly... unfortunately some people unleash their hilarious wit on people they've barely even spoken to before... and end up looking like cocks (or bullies) in the process.
I don't think it's so much what you say, or how you say it... but who you are to the person you're saying it to.
If your comments are getting you in trouble, then you're obviously doin' it wrong... check yourself instead of wining about people taking you up wrong IMO.

Turd Ferguson

Its just a bit of banter. If those smelly foreigners dont get it they should just bugger off home :pac::pac::pac:

_feedback_

Most people can understand banter ... but if you're asking for opinions on that thread. The OP only posted once in it, and seemed fairly upset.

Most people wouldn't walk out of a job over a friendly slagging.

Nehaxak

Calling someone "foreign trash" is not Irish banter nor is slagging their religion so yeah, it is discrimination. Racism is another matter but without knowing the exact words said throughout his abuse he gave to that employee, I wouldn't say it is racism until such a time as the exact words were given.
Discrimination for sure though yes and that person is well within their rights to leave the job without any notice as it is gross misconduct on the part of the actual employer.

Degsy

Why do people have such ****in thin skins these days?
You'e expected to get a bit of a slagging in work over one thing or another,its part and parcel of living in the real world.
Obviously if the banter if deliberatly abusive and intended in a bullying way then thats different,but really,are people that stupid that they'd risk thier job by harrassing somebody on grounds of race??

AARRRGH

Degsy wrote: »

are people that stupid that they'd risk thier job by harrassing somebody on grounds of race??

It seems some people think it is really common, but I find that hard to believe.

suspectdevice

AARRRGH wrote: »

It seems some people think it is really common, but I find that hard to believe.

its common in every sense of the word

getz

wasent there a englishman who took a company to the irish courts a few weeks ago?--i know he won his case because of racism and bullying it was in the uk papers

Degsy

AARRRGH wrote: »

It seems some people think it is really common, but I find that hard to believe.

Me too.
Its something you just dont do,especially as there are whiners on both sides of the "racial" fence scrutinising workplace practice with an eagle eye.
There are people who seem to have been created in the last ten years to tell everybody else they're racist.
Anybody i know who's racist tends to keep it to themselves.

Degsy

getz wrote: »

wasent there a englishman who took a company to the irish courts a few weeks ago?--i know he won his case because of racism and bullying it was in the uk papers

Its hould've been laughed out of court.
He was a white man.A white man cannot be racially abused by another white man.
He may have been abused because he was from England but he was NOT racially abused.
PC rubbish is turning people into cretins.

Elem

It is all in good fun and at the end of the day it's who we are and what makes us as people. I don't think their’s any insult in any of our harsh jokes and humour. Immigrants should learn to adapt to our culture, the way our immigrants adapt to there‘s.

Mena

Elem wrote: »

Immigrants should learn to adapt to our culture, the way our immigrants adapt to theirs.

*double checks that this is AH*

We are trying, but it's hard to get so much drink in your system on such short notice

AARRRGH

Mena wrote: »

*double checks that this is AH*

We are trying, but it's hard to get so much drink in your system on such short notice

What are you trying to say - Irish people have a drink problem?

Should I be offended by that?

Mena

AARRRGH wrote: »

What are you trying to say - Irish people have a drink problem?

Should I be offended by that?

It's a fact! One I've tried myself to live up to in the name of "integration"

milod

AARRRGH wrote: »

What are you trying to say - Irish people have a drink problem?

Should I be offended by that?

Ha you got there before me!

'Banter' is either funny or annoying depending on your viewpoint. I worked in London for 5 years and got my fair share of 'Oi, you fick paddy' etc ad nauseum. Didn't bother me at the start but got fupping annoying when you heard it for the umpteenth time.

Having said that, it didn't make me leave my job, or go to HR...

getz

in 1968 i worked as a barman in west london and i had to bar a woman who was drunk in the pub, as i have a manchester accent and she was irish in her drunken state-she decided that because i dident talk the same as everyone else ;i must of come from another country -because i still remember her colourful words ---f...k of back to your own country-i gave her a kiss and let her have another drink ---who wants to be a londoner

Roadend

I don't like the use of the term "foreign trash" at all, it should be foreign rubbish, this amercanisation is getting out of hand.

milod

Mena wrote: »

It's a fact! One I've tried myself to live up to in the name of "integration"

Yeah, there's many a 'fact' that can be interpreted as racist. Here's a few

Muslims are religious nutters FACT!*
Itinerants make a mess wherever they go FACT!*
All Polish people look dour and unhappy FACT!*
All Nigerian women are fat FACT!*

Just because you can make an argument for a particular statement and back it up with anecdotal evidence, it doesn't necessarily make it acceptable or true to declare...

* disclaimer - some sarcasm and irony may have been used in this post - please don't interpret literally

MIN2511

People take this "racism" too seriously... My understanding of racism is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Everyday people make jokes of other nationalities...

That isn't racism! I read that thread and i don't know why the OP is being fussy about nothing...

I insult myself all the time...

Lighten up!!!!!


And Foreign trash/Euro trash/Irish trash is definitely not racism!


Come to think of it, it depends on the manner and approach the person has...
I have mates who insult me ****** all the time but i don't mind and tbh if someone on the street called be a ****** i would label them as ignorant and uneducated.

Mena

milod wrote: »

Yeah, there's many a 'fact' that can be interpreted as racist. Here's a few

Muslims are religious nutters FACT!
Itinerants make a mess wherever they go FACT!
All Polish people look dour and unhappy FACT!
All Nigerian women are fat FACT!

Just because you can make an argument for a particular statement and back it up with anecdotal evidence, it doesn't necessarily make it acceptable or true to declare...

What are you on about.... I thought it was patently clear my post was a pisstake, or did I strike too close to home?

milod

Mena wrote: »

What are you on about.... I thought it was patently clear my post was a pisstake, or did I strike too close to home?

Nope just illustrating the point of thin v. thick skin or did you misinterpret me too? :pac:

AARRRGH

Mena wrote: »

What are you on about.... I thought it was patently clear my post was a pisstake, or did I strike too close to home?

But if I interpret it as an insult, should you be banned from boards.ie?

Elem

Most of the people disagreeing are good at giving 'banter' but aren't good at receiving it.

arybvtcw0eolkf

MIN2511 wrote: »

Lighten up!!!!!

You've a problem with dark people ¬¬ ?.

:pac:

hussey

In sydney I get the whole 'Irish = drunk' all the time
it is sometimes funny, but mostly idiotic.

Work dude: Where were you, X was looking for you?
Me: Oh I had a meeting with Y
WD: Ahh, here I was thinking you were in the pub, :pac:

Now I don't mind mostly, but I work with some muslims and chinese, if I would have said to the chinese dude "Ahh, here I was thinking you were in the casino, :pac:" or to the muslim "Ahh, here I was thinking you went to join the talaban, :pac:"

I'd be sacked within a blink of an eye.

I don't mind really, as they are not really offending me, I had an Irish boss (in sydney), who called me a 'poof' as I didn't drink beer (cider man myself), I put this down as banter, as he was laughing at me, he then said "Ah you know I'm joking, you're a good laugh" I retorted back, "Ah come on, I was hoping to be insulted more, so I can sue the company for thousands on Monday" he gave me a he he, and never gave me any 'banter' again.

Crumble Froo

nah, way i read that thread, blatant racism from the boss.

im living in a foreign country at the moment, and get tonnes of abuse for my accent at work, or words i'd use that they wouldnt use (everything from 'feck' to 'vest' to 'apple butt'), and not to mention all the abuse for being a *ahem* 'catholic', while not at work.

but i know these people are only saying it in a tongue in cheek way, cos they treat me with respect outside of the pisstaking.

if twas just pisstaking and abuse... for sure, specially at work, i'd be talkin to a lawyer.

CDfm

I worked in England and it was part of the course.
It was fairly nasty and you were left in no doubt at all that it was intended.

In Ireland- years back in Dublin I got redkneck and culchie after our jobs and all that and there was nothing in it. I think a lot of blacks are over sensitive.

I also think the PC brigade and all these racist studies and anti racism campaigns have to a large extent crteated the whole thing. Before them it disdnt exist.