compression pedals

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Hi all, hope somebody can help!
I play an epie LP through a voxAD100, guitar is great for overdrive, but the clean sound is very poor. I was talking to a guy in a band and he said if a lowered the volume on the guitar's pickups, and put it through a compression pedal it would improve the clean sound. What do compression pedals do, and how to they work?

Im considering this one at the moment
http://www.thomann.de/ie/boss_cs3_compression_sustainer.htm

Voodu Child

They take the loud parts of your signal and make them quieter, and take the quiet parts and make them louder. Basically they even out the sound, or 'compress' the dynamic range. Obviously theres controls on (most) pedals to determine exactly how much they work, so it can be a subtle effect if you want, or vice versa.

You couldn't say they 'improve' the sound (of a clean guitar) its just an effect and it might sound good or bad depending on the circumstances and the listener. Some guys like twangy country players (or funk) might depend heavily on compression for their sound, whereas other guys would consider they rob them of their guitar/amps natural dynamic range.

Most of those modelling amps have a good deal of compression built into the modelling algorithms anyway, so im not sure i'd be so bothered about getting one in your situation. Its definitely not just going to magically 'improve' the clean sound. You should head into one of the guitar shops, they'll let you try out some pedals and you can get a feel for the effect yourself.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Thanks voodoo, will do!

Eoin Madsen

A compressor works by automatically reducing the signal volume when it gets louder than whatever the threshold level is. The volume is lowered by a proportion based on a ratio setting. There are often attack/decay/knee parameters for how quickly the compression acts and how long the reduction in volume lasts (from milliseconds up to hundreds of milliseconds, generally). These parametres all affect the feel of the compressor. At the end of the circuit, there is a "make up" gain stage to make up the loss in volume or to create a boost.

In a guitar compressor pedal, you tend to get all those parameters rolled into one or two controls which tend to have vague names, so it may take a bit of random playing to get the best sound without adding excessive noise. Most of the parameters will be preset, which is why there's such a variance in the feel of the different pedals, and why you should definitely go and try a few out, as VC suggested.

Lowering the volume of the pickups before the compressor may be useful in certain situations (if the compressor has no threshold control, or you want to get a very specific loss of frequencies given from having a particular pickup load), but, in general, it's actually counter-productive if you're using passive pickups. So I wouldn't suggest that you automatically do so - experiment.

Depending on the amp, using a compressor with a very short attack and release can be great for getting a vaguely classic-Fender type of clean sound. It sort of fakes (or over-accentuates) the effects of the valve compression a little bit. But as was already said, modelling amps have already been on to that one for a while. :pac:

I didn't like the Boss compressor at all, but it's been a few years, and I'm not sure if it was a CS3 or an older version last time. It did the job, but was very very noisy. Boss pedals are generally a bit expensive and have a reputation they do not deserve, imo.

darrenw5094

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

I didn't like the Boss compressor at all, but it's been a few years, and I'm not sure if it was a CS3 or an older version last time. It did the job, but was very very noisy. Boss pedals are generally a bit expensive and have a reputation they do not deserve, imo.

I have to agree on the Boss thing. They have to be the most overrated piece of junk (embaressment) i have ever seen/heard. Some of their pedals are pathetic.....really poor sounding pedals that you could not use live. How or why people would buy or use these is beyond me. I can understand young people like students who have not got a lot of money to spend, but anyone who values their own gear and tone.....stay away from this garbage.

The noise suppressor is absolutey rubbish.....it stops the unwanted noise alright, but changes your tone into muck. Some of their other pedals are shocking.....DS-1....sounds like the worst solid state box ever made. I could go on, but i won't as i sold all my old ones recently.

How can Boss claim to be the best or industry standard. They put a sticker on the box saying '8 million units sold' and fool even more people into buying their gear. You get what you pay for in the instruments business. Why would anyone buy a top notch guitar and expensive valve amp and then put poxy Boss pedals in the chain. One of these days i am going to setup a new thread about Boss to see what everyone thinks and maybe a poll.

Sergio

darrenw5094 wrote: »

I have to agree on the Boss thing. They have to be the most overrated piece of junk (embaressment) i have ever seen/heard. Some of their pedals are pathetic.....really poor sounding pedals that you could not use live. How or why people would buy or use these is beyond me. I can understand young people like students who have not got a lot of money to spend, but anyone who values their own gear and tone.....stay away from this garbage.

The noise suppressor is absolutey rubbish.....it stops the unwanted noise alright, but changes your tone into muck. Some of their other pedals are shocking.....DS-1....sounds like the worst solid state box ever made. I could go on, but i won't as i sold all my old ones recently.

How can Boss claim to be the best or industry standard. They put a sticker on the box saying '8 million units sold' and fool even more people into buying their gear. You get what you pay for in the instruments business. Why would anyone buy a top notch guitar and expensive valve amp and then put poxy Boss pedals in the chain. One of these days i am going to setup a new thread about Boss to see what everyone thinks and maybe a poll.

Hi Darren,

what brand would you recommend instead of boss?

with regards a compresser my friend i would you would be better off buying a better guitar&amp so you wont have to over process the tone with FX.

Seziertisch

Well, if you follow check out my profile on Adverts you will find quite a nice one for sale. Although I would be more inclined to say you should look into replacing your pickups before buying a compressor. If they are stock Epiphones they are not great. Replacement pickups would cost a bit more probably than a comp but would vastly improve the sound of your guitar.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Colinboy wrote: »

Hi Darren,

what brand would you recommend instead of boss?

with regards a compresser my friend i would you would be better off buying a better guitar&amp so you wont have to over process the tone with FX.

well its mainly the guitar, i hope to get a strat but id say it will be a year at lest before i get it, decided to do the masters this year, so im broke for another year!!

Well, if you follow check out my profile on Adverts you will find quite a nice one for sale. Although I would be more inclined to say you should look into replacing your pickups before buying a compressor. If they are stock Epiphones they are not great. Replacement pickups would cost a bit more probably than a comp but would vastly improve the sound of your guitar.

i was thinking of doing that, it has stocks. what would you suggest. i play mainy rock/indie. dont really play metal. mainly play lizzy, queen, foo fighters, artic monkies......... that sort of stuff.

Seziertisch

I think Seymour Duncans would be a good one to look at. Affordable and quite good. Possibly not the absolute very best but still good for the money.

Also probably worth checking out.

http://www.leosounds.de/index_de.html

Enjoys quite the rep, is based in Europe and the prices seem quite good.

Dord

I use an Orange Squeezer clone that was built with bass in mind.
Works great. :pac:

darrenw5094

Colinboy wrote: »

Hi Darren,

what brand would you recommend instead of boss?

with regards a compresser my friend i would you would be better off buying a better guitar&amp so you wont have to over process the tone with FX.

Better compressor would be the T-Rex Comp Nova or the Keeley one which is expensive. I can't believe that the Boss one is an issue. It must be the worst one available. Changes the tone completely and can make the overall guitar tone sound very fake and processed.

With regards to guitar and amp......Music Man Axis, PRS Custom 24, Gibson Les Paul Standard '93 and a Fender USA Strat Plus '89. All into a Marshall JVM or Mesa Boogie Studio 22+ with a newly purchaed TC Electronics G-Force. So that's not an issue.

What do people expect for €60 or €70 when you buy a compressor??

Fingers Mcginty

I have the keeley one. It's a good pedal.

darrenw5094

Jammy sod......2 knobs or 4 Fingers??:D

Fingers Mcginty

2 knobs. I prefer to keep it simple...less opportunity to **** up

darrenw5094

How good is it compared to some of the other ones, namely the Boss comperssor and others.

I have TC Electronics G-Force now, so my life is almost complete. All i have to do now is to learn how to play a bit better.

I did think of buying one, and then the T-Rex Comp Nova, i very nearly bought too.

Fingers Mcginty

I haven't much experience TBH when it comes to compressors. When i used to play with a POD thru my hod rod deluxe i loved what the compressor did for sustain. I just heard the Keeley one was the dogs so i forked out for it. I've heard the boss one is rubbish.

Sergio

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Better compressor would be the T-Rex Comp Nova or the Keeley one which is expensive. I can't believe that the Boss one is an issue. It must be the worst one available. Changes the tone completely and can make the overall guitar tone sound very fake and processed.

With regards to guitar and amp......Music Man Axis, PRS Custom 24, Gibson Les Paul Standard '93 and a Fender USA Strat Plus '89. All into a Marshall JVM or Mesa Boogie Studio 22+ with a newly purchaed TC Electronics G-Force. So that's not an issue.

What do people expect for €60 or €70 when you buy a compressor??

Would a BFR john petrucci musicman model do instead of the Axis my freind?:D

-=al=-

my marshall ed-1 compressor is on 95% o the time... great little pedal

darrenw5094

Colinboy wrote: »

Would a BFR john petrucci musicman model do instead of the Axis my freind?:D

Well Colinboy, ya langer ya......:D
The Axis and Petrucci model are 2 different guitars. Having said that i almost bought one on ebay last night.....outbid by some shmuck....:mad:

Dord

Ah, he's just braggin that he has a BFR Petrucci! :rolleyes:

darrenw5094

Dord wrote: »

Ah, he's just braggin that he has a BFR Petrucci! :rolleyes:

Not sure about the sig guitars anymore......i felt like a noob with the Vai Ibanez. Although the Petrucci model is one i do like.

Dord

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Not sure about the sig guitars anymore......i felt like a noob with the Vai Ibanez. Although the Petrucci model is one i do like.

Aye, I'm not too mad on signature guitars either.

Although one of my basses is an "unofficial" signature but that doesn't really count.

Sergio

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Well Colinboy, ya langer ya......:D
The Axis and Petrucci model are 2 different guitars. Having said that i almost bought one on ebay last night.....outbid by some shmuck....:mad:

Im a member of the EBMM forum for a while now and have contactS in the usa and in the uk if your looking for a JP model standard or BFR let me know and i might look after ya even though you called me a langer;)

darrenw5094

Colinboy wrote: »

Im a member of the EBMM forum for a while now and have contactS in the usa and in the uk if your looking for a JP model standard or BFR let me know and i might look after ya even though you called me a langer;)

Good to see you Cork lads can take a joke.:)
I've been called a lot worse than a langer up here....

My best bet for a compressor is the T-Rex Comp Nova. From the USA of course..;), but made in Denmark.

A JP Music Man would quite nice to own alright......Colin, my new mate.;)

brendansmith

The soul preacher might be worth a look also, Dimebag used this one!:D

Eoin Madsen

Seziertisch wrote: »

Well, if you follow check out my profile on Adverts you will find quite a nice one for sale. Although I would be more inclined to say you should look into replacing your pickups before buying a compressor. If they are stock Epiphones they are not great. Replacement pickups would cost a bit more probably than a comp but would vastly improve the sound of your guitar.

+1

darrenw5094 wrote: »

What do people expect for €60 or €70 when you buy a compressor??

Well, I would expect what I heard, rather than hearing what I paid. The most expensive part in a solidstate compressor pedal is probably the box it comes in. If you had the knowledge and inclination, you could likely build one to whip all of the pedals you've mentioned for less than €50 in parts. Price is probably not a useful indicator at all (as evidenced by Boss).

Personally, I'd just get a real compressor and put it in the effects loop. :pac:

darrenw5094

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

Well, I would expect what I heard, rather than hearing what I paid. Price is probably not a useful indicator at all (as evidenced by Boss).

Boss compressor is cheap.......the best is Keeley at around €300.

SirLemonhead

See if you could find an old BOSS CS-2 maybe

meant to be a lot better than the CS-3

Seziertisch

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Boss compressor is cheap.......the best is Keeley at around €300.

When I eventually got to try the Keeley it was a bit of a disappointment insofar as it was on a par with others I had played but was by no means "the best". When you get to the boutique level it is a question of horses for courses really. Considering how much more expensive the Keeley is compared to some others I would be slow to recommend it. But who knows, it might be your favourite and you might feel it is worth the extra cash.

I know that the wiring and solder is all audiophile standard in the Keeley (and indeed it sounds quite hi-fi). Others use more regular product. Whether this is a good thing or not is debatable. In terms of fidelity, yes, but so many guitar effects and great sounds are not about "fidelity" and the wiring on older gear is a big part of the magic in a lot of cases, causing a very pleasant rolling off of treble frequencies.

Eoin Madsen

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Boss compressor is cheap.......the best is Keeley at around €300.

The point I was making is that in both cases you're paying far in excess of a 100% markup on the actual value of the components. I guarantee that the Keeley has a greater markup than the Boss. One may be better than the other, but very little of the extra money is going into the difference so there's no point using it as a gauge. The components in these pedals cost next to nothing.

And imo, they're both ****e compressors in the grand scheme of things. :pac:

punchdrunk

I wouldn't put a compressor pedal near my guitar tbh

darrenw5094

punchdrunk wrote: »

I wouldn't put a compressor pedal near my guitar tbh

Any particular reason?

punchdrunk

any time i ever used one,i always felt i lost the character of the guitar i was playing, a tele for example is all about the attack at the start of the note,it's what makes it sound different to say a strat,(well to these ears anyway) compression hides these little differences
also when i done the sound engineering course in TBMC it always seemed like people in the class would compress everything cymbals,bass,kick,vocals at least leave the guitar alone to add some dynamics!

-=al=-

i still add a little bit of compression pre production, not much, just a little to give it a little edge, when you compress correctly you should hardly even notice it being done, well with a good ear you will but the average joe wont

Eoin Madsen

punchdrunk wrote: »

any time i ever used one,i always felt i lost the character of the guitar i was playing, a tele for example is all about the attack at the start of the note,it's what makes it sound different to say a strat,(well to these ears anyway) compression hides these little differences
also when i done the sound engineering course in TBMC it always seemed like people in the class would compress everything cymbals,bass,kick,vocals at least leave the guitar alone to add some dynamics!

Well, you can preserve the attack with a good compressor (ie one with decent attack and release controls ). I think the problem is more down to the dreadful misuse of compression and the fact that guitar compressors are ridiculously over-simplified to the point of being practically useless (imo).

Seziertisch

punchdrunk wrote: »

any time i ever used one,i always felt i lost the character of the guitar i was playing, a tele for example is all about the attack at the start of the note,it's what makes it sound different to say a strat,(well to these ears anyway) compression hides these little differences
also when i done the sound engineering course in TBMC it always seemed like people in the class would compress everything cymbals,bass,kick,vocals at least leave the guitar alone to add some dynamics!

That is what the attack control is for, although a lot of classic compressor pedals have a set attack. It is not supposed to be on all the time.

Its best uses are for a little extra boost/smoothness when soloing and for evening out picked passages particularly finger picked passages on an electric guitar (it really smooths things out, giving better separation and note definition).

That said I find a compressor redundant with humbuckers for the most part. Although when it comes to smoothing out the signal before or after a fuzz or whatever it can work quite well.

As for the use of compression in recording guitars, what do you think a guitar amp does? You turn it up it starts distorting, the signal compresses. In fact this pleasant characteristic is what makes tube amps so beloved. If you want to keep the dynamics of the guitar then don't use an amp ;-)

And of course there are differences in compressor pedals. Some sound like ass, some don't.