Secondary teaching

adeb

Hi I'm looking for some information about qualifing as a secondary teacher and if there are opportunities in this area. I'm looking at teaching Physics and Maths and I have just completed a masters in Physics.
I'm planning on applying for the H.Dip but I don't understand the process of qualifying.
1. Apply for H.Dip
2. Do H.Dip
I know you then need to register with the teaching council. But is there another year as a trainee teacher?
If so how is this achieved with the difficulty in getting posts. If you only get substitute work at the start, can this be based on this or does it only occur when you have found full time work?

ytareh

No theres no year as a 'trainee teacher ' in the real world system in place in Ireland .Technically you may have to complete a certain number of hours teaching within a certain number of years but this was NEVER enforced and the latest seems to be that the Teaching Council (why do I feel the need to spit every time I say those words!?LOL)despite their consistent track record of crucifying starting teachers arent going to try and implement it as there just arent enough jobs out there for people to get the hours.
They might just try and say you arent 'qualified ' to teach Physics though ...you do only have a Masters after all ...But dont worry they can probably look into it for you for a paltry 3 or perhaps 4 figure sum...Are you sure you wouldnt prefer a job in lecturing ?

implausible

really helpful...

OP, you apply for the H.Dip through a CAO system. Places are awarded based on points. You get points for your qualifications, teaching experience and how in demand your teaching subjects are. Your best bet is to try and get some subbing work to see if you want to teach and to build up hours of teaching experience. Technically, you need to be registered with the Teaching Council to teach, but in reality, there is a supply and demand problem and unqualified teachers can get subbing work.

I'm not fully up-to-date with the HDip application process, but there are plenty of posters who are and can probably give more detailed info on it.

Good luck:)

Rosita

deemark wrote: »

really helpful...

OP, you apply for the H.Dip through a CAO system. Places are awarded based on points. You get points for your qualifications, teaching experience and how in demand your teaching subjects are. Your best bet is to try and get some subbing work to see if you want to teach and to build up hours of teaching experience. Technically, you need to be registered with the Teaching Council to teach, but in reality, there is a supply and demand problem and unqualified teachers can get subbing work.

Are you sure this is the case? It would seem to make sense in that it would seem obvious to try to provide for the subjects where the greatest requirement is, but I have examined the PGDE application literature and there is no - explicit anyway - evidence whatsoever in there that subject demand is considered as part of the process - with the exception of the Business degree quota that is.

implausible

I'm not sure, was hoping someone would clarify! I didn't know if the Business quota was unique.

gaeilgegrinds

Business quota presently unique but for years it has been suggested other quota come in. Not in yet though.

Joe1919

Hi, Just reading handbook cause I hope to have history degree and have good results this year.
Read Page 6 of Postgraduate Diploma inEducation (NUI) Applications Centre (PDEAC) Handbook for 2009 Entry.
Subject Teacher Shortages in 2009
Quotas
"It may be necessary to introduce a Quota system for other subject areas in 2009. If this is required, then it will be advertised in the national press and the careers offices in the various colleges will also be notified."
http://www.pac.ie/hdip/downloads/hb09hdip.pdf

I hope this is not the case for 2009.

Rosita

Joe1919 wrote: »

Hi, Just reading handbook cause I hope to have history degree and have good results this year.
Read Page 6 of Postgraduate Diploma inEducation (NUI) Applications Centre (PDEAC) Handbook for 2009 Entry.
Subject Teacher Shortages in 2009
Quotas
"It may be necessary to introduce a Quota system for other subject areas in 2009. If this is required, then it will be advertised in the national press and the careers offices in the various colleges will also be notified."
http://www.pac.ie/hdip/downloads/hb09hdip.pdf

I hope this is not the case for 2009.

I still have a copy of the 2007 PGDE handbook lying around and that message was also on that one so I wouldn't take it too seriously.

Having said that it is a system they probably should use considering how demand apparently outstrips supply massively in some subject areas.

adeb

I'd like to teach and lecturing is not an option. I had thought about Primary in the past but it seems a waste as I've Science and maths and currently these are not important in the primary curriculum.
I was worried about the teaching hours thing.
Are there positions out there for Physics and Maths. My degree is on the list from the teaching council so I assume I'm OK???

sandypas76

Hi! Last year I happened to speak to a school principal in Dublin about the chance to teach a few hours in his school as unqualified teacher. One of the things he told me is that it is not strictly necessary to have hours of teaching experience to get a position. He said most of the applicants have just finished an undergraduate course and so they don't have experience. They still get offers by the Univerisites. I know that the PDEAC Handbook talks about points given for previous teaching hours, and of course if you have taught you are advantaged, but I wouldn't worry too much.
He also said there might be more competition for the 2-year part-time course offered by DCU than for the one-year full-time course offered by Trinity College or NUI. That's because of course the part-time course would allow students to work and so it's more popular, while the full-time courses require extra sacrifice because you'll be unemployed. With this recession, I wonder how many would still choose to apply to qualify as a teacher rather than securing a different type of career.

whiteandlight

Just like to point out that the fees for the PGDE in NUIM were €6007 this year (I'm currently doing it). This is crazy especially since most of us who really wanted to teach didn't have a choice aout whether or not to do the course. There is very little opportunity to earn anything during the year, and even less once the substitution rules change in january-I am peniless. On top of that since the budget most of our lecturers/unions keep telling us we'll never get a job!
In reference to the OP. The application process is relatively simple and if you have a MA I wouldn't worry about it TBH. Calculate your points from the handbook, add on your MA points and see if you meet last years points. If you do then you are probably fine. Just fill in the form, pop it in the post and wait and see.

byhookorbycrook

adeb wrote: »

I'd like to teach and lecturing is not an option. I had thought about Primary in the past but it seems a waste as I've Science and maths and currently these are not important in the primary curriculum.

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR???How did you arrive at that idea???

sandypas76

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Just like to point out that the fees for the PGDE in NUIM were €6007 this year (I'm currently doing it). This is crazy especially since most of us who really wanted to teach didn't have a choice about whether or not to do the course. There is very little opportunity to earn anything during the year, and even less once the substitution rules change in January-I am penniless. On top of that since the budget most of our lecturers/unions keep telling us we'll never get a job!
In reference to the OP. The application process is relatively simple and if you have a MA I wouldn't worry about it TBH. Calculate your points from the handbook, add on your MA points and see if you meet last years points. If you do then you are probably fine. Just fill in the form, pop it in the post and wait and see.

Can you tell me what are the substitution rules that are about to change?
Also, what do you mean when you say:
On top of that since the budget most of our lecturers/unions keep telling us we'll never get a job!
Does it mean you wouldn't encourage to take on the teaching career these days, since there are little opportunities (because of the recession or because of what?). If the situation is not rosy, would it be everywhere in Ireland or perhaps in Dublin (where I live) it's still relatively easy to find teaching opportunities?
Please let me know what you think as I have just submitted my application for a PGDE at UCD. I have a job and I have been pondering whether to quit it and pursue my dream to qualify as a teacher, or to keep my office job and maybe it's not the top and the best paid, but it's a nice job after all.

whiteandlight

Basically there will only be cover for certified sick leave, nothing for any extra curricular activities or the odd bug that teachers get. Means there'll be much less available for subs and usually the DIP student is the last on the list.
As regards a job, yes everyone is a little pessimistic as there will be 1000 jobs less at second level (ASTI/TUI) next year. With that many losses its going to be difficult for NQT's to find a job.
I've always wanted to teach so there's no question for me. I'll survive even if I don't get permanent for years but TBH I'm estimating at least 3/4 years before I get a permanent job and probably more. This means that you don't get paid for the summers/holidays generally so you have to do different work then.

Sharmon1

Rosita wrote: »

I still have a copy of the 2007 PGDE handbook lying around and that message was also on that one so I wouldn't take it too seriously.

Having said that it is a system they probably should use considering how demand apparently outstrips supply massively in some subject areas.

Exactly which subjects are in demand & which are not?

sandypas76

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Basically there will only be cover for certified sick leave, nothing for any extra curricular activities or the odd bug that teachers get. Means there'll be much less available for subs and usually the DIP student is the last on the list.
As regards a job, yes everyone is a little pessimistic as there will be 1000 jobs less at second level (ASTI/TUI) next year. With that many losses its going to be difficult for NQT's to find a job.
I've always wanted to teach so there's no question for me. I'll survive even if I don't get permanent for years but TBH I'm estimating at least 3/4 years before I get a permanent job and probably more. This means that you don't get paid for the summers/holidays generally so you have to do different work then.

Thanks.
What does DIP stand for? I guess Diploma? (I'm not Irish).
Wouldn't you be able to claim unemployment allowances in between jobs (for example in the summer)?
Is there a ranking system? How does it work (are you ranked according to the number of teaching hours)?

whiteandlight

Dip you guessed correctly is diploma. Yes you can sign on the dole for the summers but depending on weeks worked etc you could be waiting up to 6 weeks for a response. You will get back paid but its a long time without cash.
There's no real ranking system based on hours, there is advancement in the profession but it comes with length of service I believe. Wouldn't be fully sure of that.

sandypas76

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Basically there will only be cover for certified sick leave, nothing for any extra curricular activities or the odd bug that teachers get. Means there'll be much less available for subs and usually the DIP student is the last on the list.
As regards a job, yes everyone is a little pessimistic as there will be 1000 jobs less at second level (ASTI/TUI) next year. With that many losses its going to be difficult for NQT's to find a job.
I've always wanted to teach so there's no question for me. I'll survive even if I don't get permanent for years but TBH I'm estimating at least 3/4 years before I get a permanent job and probably more. This means that you don't get paid for the summers/holidays generally so you have to do different work then.

So when you talk about 3/4 years before finding permanent employment, were you talking about newly qualified teachers?
But in the meantime do you have chances to find substitutions for a few months in a row? Or what's the perspective: one week then nothing for months then maybe on month substitution if you are lucky?
And what does a NQT do in between subs? Can you apply for the dole (6 weeks wait, I know), or you'd better find a place as a waiter for the weekends?
May I ask you what your subject is and how old you are?
Thanks!

spurious

I would say 3/4 years is fairly optimistic.

Rosita

sandypas76 wrote: »

So when you talk about 3/4 years before finding permanent employment, were you talking about newly qualified teachers?

I think it needs to be pointed out that demand for teachers will differ a fair but from subject to subject as some subjects such as History has declining numbers studying but large numbers of graduates. Geographical location and yoru own mobility also appear to be significant. There also appears to be a huge element of luck in getting permanent jobs.

For example, I know two teachers who were made permanent in their second year, and another who having returned from England was made permanent on his first day at a new school literally a mile down the road from where he lives in rural Ireland - a job he did not have arranged before he left his old school in England.

I made enquiries here last year about the post-grad diploma in Education and was told forget it there are no jobs irrespective of your subjects (I am an Irish graduate), yet, I read accounts from people here who have principal teachers tell them that Irish teachers are remarkably scarce, so it is hard to know what to believe at this stage.

whiteandlight

Geographical location is a major factor in getting a job, for example I know that my old principal has been very stuck for getting maths cover for the last 5 years in mayo as there is nobody down there with maths.
Unfortunately I would also say who you know is also a factor. Never, ever piss off a principal because it will in all likelyhood affect your future job prospects.
Finally if you are in an area which has just had a surge in population you could be really lucky and land yourself a permanent job in a new school or newly expanded school.
OP you say you have maths and physics. Physics may not be that in demand but you could be lucky with maths. Having said that however was maths one of your graduating subjects? If it was not then you may not be recognised to teach it. There are several students in my course who have to make up credits in maths in order to be allowed to teach it even though they are science graduates. I'd check this with the teaching council, maybe even before accepting the DIP.
In relation to substitution, TBH its all very up in the air now. Traditionally you could get your nose in the door of a school and get some form of substitution every day subject to the number of teachers out. This could be anything from 3 hours up to 22 hours in a week dependant on the need for subs so it can be a very shaky position to be in. Now that may change with less substitution available.
Maternity posts are the ideal for any non-permanent teacher as its usually a full time post for a couple of months. Again however the demand for these is very high.
You can of course get a job on the weekends/in between. Its just a bit of a pain in the ass considering all your qualifications to be doing a weekend job!