Live Poker for Dummies

zuutroy

I'm heading back for the IPO next week and for all intents and purposes I've never played live before. I'd like some advice about making the transition so I at least have some hope of doing ok. I've played lots online where its perfectly fine to smack the mouse off the desk when my draw misses, or fist-pump when I flop a set, so I guess I'll have to make some changes
Am I likely to get berated for the several mistakes I'm sure to make like forgetting to post, string betting etc.?
Is it a good idea to completely avoid the speech-players, given I'll probably tell them my exact hand?
What about the play. I hear live games (not sure about tourneys, but I'll play some cash too) play a lot more passively in general. Any advice on that end of things? Are we looking at a standard something like a Sunday Million on Stars?

All other advice gratefully received. ty ty.

Wreck

Whenever you lose a pot call the winner of the hand a luckbox or a donkey. If you win a pot say loudly to the dealer 'lol donkaments, am I right?'

Before you put any chips in the pot say in a loud clear voice what you are doing and how many chips you are putting in. If people try to sweat you or ask you questions during a hand don't say anything. If someone asks you what you had after a hand is over always say 'I had a small pair' or 'I can't remember'. Don't look at your hole cards immediately, wait either until its your turn or until utg has acted. Don't look at the flop/turn/river whilst its being dealt, watch the other people in the hand. Watch everyone all the time (or as much as you can).

mocata

TBH u would be unlucky to run into very many players perceptive enough to "read" u well, at least early on. The slow pace of the game is the biggest thing u need to adjust to, can be a bit tilt-inducing. One good tip to stop boredom is to use the "downtime" as your time to gather free information, build up ur PT database so to speak. And keep ur chips in easily visible order and countable stacks, most common attempt i have found at a "read" is sum1 asking u how much ur playing, how much u have behind etc and interpreting ur strength/weakness from ur response. Point to ur chips or let the dealer tell them and they will stop asking soon enough.

TripleAce

zuutroy wrote: »

I'm heading back for the IPO next week and for all intents and purposes I've never played live before. I'd like some advice about making the transition so I at least have some hope of doing ok. I've played lots online where its perfectly fine to smack the mouse off the desk when my draw misses, or fist-pump when I flop a set, so I guess I'll have to make some changes
Am I likely to get berated for the several mistakes I'm sure to make like forgetting to post, string betting etc.?
Is it a good idea to completely avoid the speech-players, given I'll probably tell them my exact hand?
What about the play. I hear live games (not sure about tourneys, but I'll play some cash too) play a lot more passively in general. Any advice on that end of things? Are we looking at a standard something like a Sunday Million on Stars?

All other advice gratefully received. ty ty.

Don't shake when you get dealt AA.....when I started playing live about 18 months ago, for the first few times my hands were always shaking a lot when I was dealt a monster and was reaching for my chips. Problem fixed now, but I guess I gave away a lot at the time.

On a suited flop (ie 3 diamonds), don't look down at your cards to check if you have a diamond or not....it's like saying "I don't have a flush" as you would remember the suit of 2 suited cards.

When you want to raise, say "I raise to xxx", don't just throw the big chip in because it would count as a flat call.

zuutroy

zuutroy wrote: »

I've played lots online where its perfectly fine to smack the mouse off the desk when my draw misses, or fist-pump when I flop a set, so I guess I'll have to make some changes

If you continue to do this you really shouldn't stand out.

zuutroy wrote: »

Am I likely to get berated for the several mistakes I'm sure to make like forgetting to post, string betting etc.?

Anyone who "berates" you is already tilting and doing it will make you seem like a total n00b to poker, which may be an advantage.

zuutroy wrote: »

Is it a good idea to completely avoid the speech-players, given I'll probably tell them my exact hand?

Most "speech players" have no idea what they are looking for. They talk cause they like the sound of their own voice or because they have already decided to fold but want to make it seem like they are making a soul read and folding a huge hand. That said, a better player at the table who is saying nothing might gain 10x more info than the person talking by watching your reactions so if you don't feel comfortable (and you shouldn't really) talking back to them then just totally ignore them. It'll annoy the **** out of them as a bonus.

zuutroy wrote: »

What about the play. I hear live games (not sure about tourneys, but I'll play some cash too) play a lot more passively in general. Any advice on that end of things? Are we looking at a standard something like a Sunday Million on Stars?

Obviously depends on the table but the serial limp-caller seems a regular fixture of the live game. The pace of the game might tilt the **** out of you so, as mocata says, spend that time studying everyone. How do they sit after a raise? What do they do with their hands? Where are they looking? Asking these questions to yourself and constantly watching the other players will serve you well in the long run. Your online game will natuarally have you watching the action in the hand fairly closely so augmenting it with this information will give you a better picture on which to base future decisions.



EDIT: Adrenaline: Sometimes when you get big hands you will have an uncontrollable emotional response that will release adrenaline into your system and increase your heartrate. This will make you fumble chips, breathe heavily and act in a seemingly nervous manner. You can combat this by focusing on your breathing. Also, if you think you are prone to this then I would advise a hoodie/scarf to cover your neck and chest over sunglasses or a baseball cap any day of the week. Someone's chest heaving gives away a shed load more info than a small eye contraction that is almost totally impossible to notice.

Flushdraw

You'll see plenty of players berating players at the table, mumbling when they miss draws, banging the table when they suck out and all other types of shannanigans. The IPO will be a tourney in itself where what you see, wont be the norm in any other live tourney you play. Be prepared for other players to make more mistakes than you. Dealers will be constantly asking players to put out blinds etc and bear in mind, for a 600 runner tournie, there will be some dealers that will also put you on tilt!

I'd encourage speech play in this because i reckon there's more chance of finding out their hands than giving your own away. I'm not expecting the standard to be anywhere near good early on (judging by last year). I'd play all your big hands fast, chase the odd cheap gutshot because implied odds will be massive. Bring the ipod with you and even if you keep it low, you can pretend to block out any questions or table banter by ignoring the 1 or 2 muppets you're sure to have at your table.

The way players stack/handle their chips, put them in the pot, look at their cards and their bet sizes will give away a lot of info early on, so keep an eye on the table once you fold and pick up any info you can. You should be able to pick out the players that have an idea what they're doing, aswel as the players that havent a clue!

I think you'll be fine after 30 mins once you settle in and you realise that you have more of an idea what you're doing that most of the rest

5starpool

You certainly won't be the only player there who isn't used to playing live. The standard will probably be mostly atrocious. It is not hard to avoid stringbetting, as someone above says, just say the amount before you put it in or if you don't want to talk, just put it all in at once, it isn't complicated once you know the rule exists.

As for the rest, don't be so self conscious about people picking up on things from you. Unless you are the worst tellbox ever very few will pay attention to you, never mind figure out what you have based on hand movements, pulse racing, pupils dilating etc.

zuutroy

Thanks to all for replies!...good info...(gonna stop the individual thanking now, so dont be offended!)

doke

zuutroy wrote: »

I'm heading back for the IPO next week and for all intents and purposes I've never played live before. I'd like some advice about making the transition so I at least have some hope of doing ok. I've played lots online where its perfectly fine to smack the mouse off the desk when my draw misses, or fist-pump when I flop a set, so I guess I'll have to make some changes
Am I likely to get berated for the several mistakes I'm sure to make like forgetting to post, string betting etc.?

It's possible. Unfortunately some seasoned live players do this to deliberately unsettle you if they think it will.

Is it a good idea to completely avoid the speech-players, given I'll probably tell them my exact hand?

Totally. In fact, avoid talking at all unless you have to and feel comfortable. I got into this habit at the start and it's not unusual for me to be called "the quiet man" by someone at the table at some point but I think it's definitely plus EV to keep your trap shut in most cases. I've gone entire tournaments without saying a word. If you turn off the talking part of your brain it also makes it easier to concentrate on watching other players.

What about the play. I hear live games (not sure about tourneys, but I'll play some cash too) play a lot more passively in general. Any advice on that end of things? Are we looking at a standard something like a Sunday Million on Stars?

Bluff less (almost not at all, in fact), bet for value more, play tighter.

Most important of all though, have fun. Live tournament poker is great.

semibluff

Just relax when playing the game. Have a laugh with those around you, and enjoy the game. So many live noobs would get nervous and to me it looks like they are constipated whilst they sit at the table afraid to speak or look at anyone. Its such a large tournament with a good structure, you may only play 3/4 hands an hour. So enjoy the day itself.

When actually playing a hand dont reposition yourself when interested in the hand or do anything overly obvious - Like said, its prob safer not to talk during a hand, and try and be consistent in what you do. Pick a spot on the table, and stare at it.If you are uncomfortable handling chips then dont at all, it will look like your new to it and may have people trying to intimidate you (which you can react to etc etc)

But most people wont be paying too much attention to this. Just relax and enjoy it.

Gl

RichardB2

Deleted User wrote: »

Most "speech players" have no idea what they are looking for. They talk cause they like the sound of their own voice or because they have already decided to fold but want to make it seem like they are making a soul read and folding a huge hand..

Interesting observation Keith :rolleyes:

Do ya ever yalk when ya play yourself?

zuroph

watch for the stringbetters, the shakey hands, and the pot splashers at ur table. they're the pub players/home gamers, and they'll be playing wit any two cards.

RichardB2

RichardB2 wrote: »

Interesting observation Keith :rolleyes:

Do ya ever yalk when ya play yourself?

I have my reasons Dick.

RichardB2

Deleted User wrote: »

I have my reasons Dick.

lol @ the name calling :eek:

Please elaborate on these reasons ..... no wait, please don't.

RichardB2

RichardB2 wrote: »

lol @ the name calling :eek:

Please elaborate on these reasons ..... no wait, please don't.

I thought your name was Richard and Dick between friends:D

Grafter

1/3 of the field are French :eek:

Ste05

The best piece of advice is not to look at your cards at all before it's your go, pay attention to your position, who's acted, who's in the blinds, etc. etc. and have a rough range of hands in your head for how you're going to act when it gets to you. So before you even look at your hand have an idea what you're going to do.

So, e.g. if your OTB, there's been 2 limps from serial limp folders, easy raise, etc. etc. etc.

Also keep in mind how much you wanna bet, so say before anyone acts, decide "if it's folded to me I'm gonna raise XXX, then add whatever per limper, as they limp, or decide a 3-bet amount if a good target for a 3B raises, etc. etc. this way when it gets to you you don't have to worry about counting what's in the pot and then decide how much you want to raise, it'll help you no end, and it's what I always do when playing Live (not very often mind). But it takes alot of pressure off you when you look down and see whatever happens to be down there, if you decided it was a good spot to steal, it still is if you have a crap hand, (and you don't have to worry if someone might have picked up on something when you looked at your cards). IMO it forces you to pay attention, (cos it is soooo mind numbingly boring IMO) and makes it a little more like on-line, as you're doing all the work the computer does for you before it gets to you, prevents you having to think about anything really, so stopping the Live "soul reading sharks" from picking up anything, it also lets you concentrate more on what you're gonna do if X, Y, or Z happens after you act, because you've already thought clearly about what you were going to do.

So again, the thing about this is you are forced to pay attention every hand PF, then when you fold pay attention and see if the ranges you assigned to the individual players PF was right or wrong, etc. etc. the amount of info you can pick up in only a few orbits is absolutely massive compared to what you would on-line.

It's all very basic, but it'll relax you no end I find. Also, an iPod is a must, but keep it low, so you can hear what's going on, but being able to ignore the guaranteed idiots at the table is a must.

Also, you'll notice the complete idiots alot faster then on-line, similarly you'll notice the solid players quicker, and also be aware they'll notice you alot faster too, so again use that info to your advantage, the seasoned Live players, will probably peg you as an internet player pretty quick so play to and recognise that that's your image to begin with and be wary that they'll be trying to "trap" you all the time, other decent internet players will adjust accordingly, etc. etc. etc.

But TBH, after about 20 minutes you'll realise that nearly everyone at the table is a complete donk, so don't bluff or do anything fancy or elaborate, because the players won't recognise what you are representing, including these "Live pros". Just value bet the fcuk out of your hands.

Lurker1977

I really like this passage from Tommy Angelo's book, the elements of poker:

http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/archives/angelo42.htm

57. Look left

If there are three or more people in the pot and the action is about to be on you, the players to your right are the wrong thing to be looking at. They are going to fold, check, call, bet, or raise, whether you watch them do it or not, and you will always know what they did before you have to do anything. When you look to the right, you look into the past. To see the future, look left.

Look left over and over and over to build up profiles on the pre-flop and post-flop behavior of the opponents on your left. That way, when they send some useful information, you'll see it, and you'll know what it means.

Let's look at looking left before the flop, and after the flop.

There is no bad time to look left before the flop. The second-best time to look at your left-hand opponents is when they look at their cards, and just after. The best time to look left is at the moment the action gets to you. That's when your left hand opponents are most likely to reveal their intentions.

From the small blind, if you look left and you see that the big blind is going to raise, that information could turn a correct call into a correct fold. Likewise, if you know that the big blind is going to check, it could change a borderline fold into a correct call.

From the button, looking left means looking at the players in the blinds. If you can detect any reliable foreshadowing in this common and volatile confrontation, it could weigh heavily into your pre-flop decision.

From the cutoff seat, you only need to focus on one player, the button. If you see that the button is going to fold, it means you are the button. H U G E. If the player on my left routinely telegraphs his pre-flop intentions, I come to extra attention when I'm in the cutoff. I need to know how much he likes his hand before I decide how much I like mine.

Next is the hijack seat. From the cutoff, I start with one player behind me; from the hijack, there are two. This means that the chance that I'll become last to act from the hijack is only half as good as from the cutoff, unless I look left from the hijack and see that the cutoff and/or the button are going to fold. Then the hijack becomes the cutoff or the button.

What would it be worth to have an extra button hand now and then? That's what you get if you know and notice the mannerisms of the players on your left.

Lots of times, looking left doesn't matter. I either don't get any information or else the information has no influence on my betting decision. But when it matters, it matters -- like the time I was playing limit hold'em in a full game and everyone folded to me and I had ace-ten in the cutoff. Without looking left, I would always raise here. But this time I looked left at my opponent on the button who was one of the tightest timidest players I have ever known. He absolutely never gets out of line regardless of position and opponents. He also telegraphs his pre-flop intentions frequently and honestly. I looked left and I saw that he was going to raise. So I folded. He raised. The big blind called and the hand went to showdown. The button had ace-king.

After the flop, I keep looking left. Even if I'm on the button, there is still stuff left to see. Let's say it's a three-way pot and I'm on the button. Joe is first to act and he checks. Moe is next to act. Who should I be looking at? Answer: Joe. And all I'm looking for is an answer to this question: "Does Joe look like someone who is about to check-raise?"

Here is another post-flop look left. Playing limit hold'em, it's on the turn, there are three players, and I'm in the middle. My hand is AJ. The board is A-K-9-8. The first player bets out. What should I do? I should look left. If my left hand opponent indicates that he is going to raise, I might fold. If he indicates that he is going to call, I might raise. If he indicates that he is going to fold, I might call. If he doesn't indicate anything, at least I looked.

Grafter

btw, I didn't mention the French because they're necessarily good or bad, it's just that they have the reputation of only folding when there's a war on.