Are We Snobs

Scoogles

Myself and a few friends were out at the weekend and shot a few clays. There was a good variety of u/overs there some costing a solid fortune and some more modestestly priced. The embarassing thing was that one of the lads came with an old yildiz that he's joint licenced with his father.

It was embarassing because he could miss nothing. He shot from one or two other pieces with mixed success. On the otherhand the lads with the more expensive guns weren't any better. I know the obvious answer is he's just a better shot than us. But the dearer guns didn't make him better. The fit, balance and comfort would i know be off for him but he was on fire with his olde double curtain pole.

A good workman never blames his tools we were always told. But we often look down our noses at some people arriving at shoots with less expensive guns or we feel under pressure to buy the more expensive guns because they must be better. But are they or are we just snobs.

P.S. I can just see the first reply : SNOB

stevoman

No we are all just victims of the celtic tiger who want the best of everything and want it now. my grandfather shot with a an old side by side all his life and cleaned it everytime after use religiously and kept it mint condition. he never missed a thing! now my uncle shoots with the same gun and was dropping ducks left right and centre this year. keep in mind the gun is about 60 years old. I have always been told to a gun is as good as the person that points it and i beleive it. (that of course hasnt stopped me going out and paying €750 for my gun and buying the best of shooting gear money can buy).

But at the ned of the day the reason why we pay thses bigs bucks is because we now can afford it.

Vegeta

There are few practical reasons why a more expensive gun can be better.

Some are simply better made and will take thousands and thousands of rounds without ever missing a beat. Cheaper guns may give in or become sloppy and loose sooner (who ever tests this I don't know so maybe its a myth)

Some more expensive guns have adjustable cheek pieces and other extras which take more time to manufacture I'm sure or have more expensive materials used in their manufacture (higher grade woods bit of gold here and there)

Saying that I'm sure the mark up on them is still ridiculous

You are right though the gun doesn't miss, the person holding it just didn't point it in the right direction. Often we may pick guns that don't fit us and therefore we will never be very accurate but again that's not the fault of a gun.

meathstevie

It's a hard one realy. I suppose if you're talking shotguns you get what you pay for to an extent. I'm quite sure if you spend let's say 2500 euro on a quality Beretta or Browning or something similar that you should have a gun for life. On the other hand I can't see a gun costing 5000 euro being twice as good. If you're at the "lower" end of the market I think it all becomes a bit more touch and go. There's no reason why a 600 euro new o/u can't give you a few years of good hard service but then the question arises when something goes wrong ? Are you going to spend a couple of hundred on it when it needs repairs ? Personally I think you should buy as good as you can afford. If I would have to make a choice between for example a new Yildiz for 700 euro or a second hand Browning in good nick for 200 more and both guns fit me equally well I'd buy the Browning. Why ? Because I know a Browning when looked after will last for two generations without giving major trouble.

Dare I say that Baikal might be the exception to the rule. Those yokes for the money you pay for them seem to be damned near indestructable.

Sparks

I'm happy being a snob. I'm a complete elitist b-word, and proud of it.
Granted, I have a slightly different metric for "best" (I think of it as how close your shot landed to the centre of the target), but I'm still happy being an elitist nonetheless. I figure if you're missing, then you can (and should) get better. Not "differently skilled" or "compensates by doing something else", but "better". Ergo, elitist.

Course, so are all of you...

Grizzly 45

" All the gear,and no idea."
You can buy every shooting doojigger and the most expensive gun going,but can you HIT with it??A more expensive gun if it fits properly and you do your job,will make your shooting more accurate and enjoyable.
BUT if you can do the same with a cheaper gun why should you feel the need to upgrade to somthing more expensive unless you suffer alot of peer pressure.Put another rather extreme way.
Do you think old Fajid Mujahadeen weilding his old SMLE mk1 in Afghanistan,is looked down upon because his score of knocking off infidels isnt with a state of the art nicked western sniper rifle??:).He uses what he has,and knows it well as to what it can and cant do,and he proably cant stop off in Bin Ladins gun cave and upgrade as easily as we can order up our bits and bobs.
He is held in great respectby his peers.As should any shooter who can do his shooting with what you and I might consider inferior tools.If you have superior tools and your results are mediocre,you aint practising enough to be able to outshoot the gun.No point in blaming the other guy for being better.
If you are looking down your hooter at somone who is out scoring you with a POS while you are hitting nothing with 15k worth of gun.THAT my friends is not Snobbery,rather Jealousy...:D:D:D.Go practise more..

Scoogles

Very well put grizzly, but if you gave that same man a very expensive, top of the range rifle and allowed him to practice and get to know it just as well, is he a better shot than he is with his old weapon. If you give the best craftsman better power tools is he a better craftsman. No

My thoughts on this thread was not that I was being outscored or jealous or had any hurt feelings whatsoever. Was meant to be less about the person/shooter and rather more about the tools/guns.

again I love your point is made.

pullandbang

You only have to look at one of the best Olympic Trap shots in the world - he uses an ancient Miroku probably worth about €1000:)

At the other extreme we had a "trap" shooter some years back (no names, but some of you will recognise him) who bought a Perazzi for over £40,000 and he couldn't shoot snow off a rope!
All the prayers to Allah did nothing for him:D

meathstevie

You're sort of making the point I was trying to make pullandbang. Your man with the Miroku invested in a good, not exorbitant, gun. Probably he minds it like a new baby and the result is that his once off reasonable investment in a good piece of kit years ago is still paying dividend today. In other words, buy something decent that doesn't break the bank too badly and take care of it.

If your budget is for a Yildiz, buy it. If your budget is Beretta or Browning, buy it. Maintain your gun properly and you should get good shooting out of it. Just don't expect the same longevity out of a budget gun than out of one a couple of pegs up the scale.

A quality gun doesn't have to be expensive either. For example : this weekend I was told about a Beretta semi for about 300 euro. The gun has seen a good bit of work, is about ten years old and in good nick.

pullandbang

meathstevie wrote: »

A quality gun doesn't have to be expensive either. For example : this weekend I was told about a Beretta semi for about 300 euro. The gun has seen a good bit of work, is about ten years old and in good nick.

Speaking of semi's - I had a Beretta 303 for a few years - even won my Novice trophy with it. I traded it in for my first trap gun about 20 years ago. The semi was then bought by a pal of mine and he still uses it today. It works perfectly and is a joy to shoot. In fact I still get to have a bang out of it each year at our own club shoot.

gofaster_s13

pullandbang wrote: »

You only have to look at one of the best Olympic Trap shots in the world - he uses an ancient Miroku probably worth about €1000:)

At the other extreme we had a "trap" shooter some years back (no names, but some of you will recognise him) who bought a Perazzi for over £40,000 and he couldn't shoot snow off a rope!
All the prayers to Allah did nothing for him:D

40,000:eek: I know he was probably flown over to Perazzi to be custom fitted etc but for that price I'd want to be keeping the plane I flew over on !!

pullandbang

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

40,000I know he was probably flown over to Perazzi to be custom fitted

He was, and apparently the story goes that his shooting was so bad (in the wind tunnel they have) he was told there was a fishing tackle shop across the road and maybe he'd like to try fishing instead:D

Don't know how true that part of the story is but there's no smoke without fire!

Grizzly 45

Scoogles wrote: »

Very well put grizzly, but if you gave that same man a very expensive, top of the range rifle and allowed him to practice and get to know it just as well, is he a better shot than he is with his old weapon. If you give the best craftsman better power tools is he a better craftsman. No

Very true indeed.However for some of us "Getting" is the big problem.:D:D.
So to misquote the late Col Cooper on some Gunsite course quieries."Bring what you have,shoot it and shoot it a lot."
I dunno about "cheap" guns not lasting the pace.Unless you are using them for tyre levers,and walking sticks.They should last forever.I have my first 410. single shot still,and I got that when I was AHEm.10! Now many Moons ago.And then it was over a hundred years old.I still shoot it,and shot just about everything with it too.
One of my grandfathers first guns in post war Germany was a EX US Army humpback Browning A5,which looks like it had landed ,on,in and thru Omaha Beach ,and finally got a service ,oh say around the time of the Berlin blockade!:eek:.Considerd a cheap gun but still works well.Maybe we are just not seeing the QUALITY Workmanship anymore in "cheap" modern guns.??

marlin vs

pullandbang wrote: »

Speaking of semi's - I had a Beretta 303 for a few years - even won my Novice trophy with it. I traded it in for my first trap gun about 20 years ago. The semi was then bought by a pal of mine and he still uses it today. It works perfectly and is a joy to shoot. In fact I still get to have a bang out of it each year at our own club shoot.

Poor me, i'm using a 25 year old beretta 302, which was 2 year's old when I bought it in 1985, but found I shot fairly well with it, it's the bottom one in the picture so I found a second one in 1986 with only about 100 round's through it and bought it in case my first one broke down, which it never did (tip wood) so the second one I have is in pristine cond,and I haven't had reason to use it yet.I have to say I just love picking up some of the beautifull gun's that some of my young friend's have.