Growing bored of the Marvel archetypes again

Fysh

Since 2000, we've had:

Ultimate Marvel
Marvel Zombies
Marvel Mangaverse
Marvel Max
Marvel 1602
Powerless

Right now, we've go Marvel Apes going on, with Marvel Noir making its debut in December. If you go back to the 90's, you had Marvels, Ruins, and the Marvel 2099 stuff going on, along with MC2 as well.

It has dawned on me that I've been buying fewer and fewer Marvel comics over the last year or so - the only two I'm buying regularly right now are Criminal and Invincible Iron Man (and I will drop the latter if Fraction's not staying aboard on writing duties). I'm not really a superhero fan, and I'm not really invested in Marvel's characters at all, certainly not enough to care about what they'd be like reinvented as apes or 30's pulp characters or whatever other fad they come up with next.

While I don't buy any DC superhero comics for the same exact reason, I consistently buy more books from DC imprints than Marvel. I probably own more Vertigo books than I do "normal" DC and Marvel books combined. But DC are at least trying to put stuff out there for people like me who don't care about Superman and his ilk; outside of the odd Icon book like Criminal, Marvel seem happy not to take my money, which I find weird.

On the one hand I understand because their biggest company asset is the library of characters that they own the rights to; but on the other hand, if they're continually struggling to expand their market and move away from the near-collapse situation of the mid-90s, why not do what they did in the past and expand their range? Marvel Illustrated doesn't really count here, because I'm talking about creating new material specifically oriented at people who aren't already reading superhero comics.

I find it weird that they'll adapt literary classics but not try to create new, non-superhero material to expand their library with. (Although I suspect the whole creator-ownership movement probably has a lot to do with that).

So this somewhat rambling train of thought leads me to two questions:

1) Those of you who do feel invested enough in the Marvel characters to follow their various reinventions - what characters do you like and why? what got you so hooked on them? (Note: this is not an attack. I figure it'd be nice to have people talk about what characters they really dig, and why)

2) Given that I have money that's not being spent on superhero comics, what should I be taking a look at? (I'm moving away from monthlies again to an extent, but any suggestions will be considered)

magwea

I'm about the same, couldn't careless about the characters themselves and rather follow the creators whom i enjoy whatever they are woking on.

I've never beem a monthlies fix kinda person and imagine changing your buying habits and reading format being disorientating. Periodical vs. paperback and all that jazz. For me it means months were there simply is nothing new and interesting hiting the shops at all, although i'm not so much a stickler for the latest and greatest anyway.

For recommendations; i don't know really, the underrated Read Yourself Raw puts out is the one i mostly use, if you don't use it already. Great overview of whats going to be published in the year ahead from more than just two companies, the archive is spiffy aswell.

Fysh

magwea wrote: »

I've never beem a monthlies fix kinda person and imagine changing your buying habits and reading format being disorientating. Periodical vs. paperback and all that jazz. For me it means months were there simply is nothing new and interesting hiting the shops at all, although i'm not so much a stickler for the latest and greatest anyway.

For recommendations; i don't know really, the underrated Read Yourself Raw puts out is the one i mostly use, if you don't use it already. Great overview of whats going to be published in the year ahead from more than just two companies, the archive is spiffy aswell.

Yeah, I've never been hooked on the monthly serialisation aspect; even with the likes of 2000AD I never got into it because until the last 5 years or so I wouldn't have regular access to them, so the idea of getting a random chapter of story seemed pretty crap. I wander into my local store every week, but that's not linked into buying habits so much as browsing habits...

Ta for the link, methinks I shall be perusing it at length

Jack B. Badd

Fysh wrote: »

Marvel Apes

O_o

Next up: Marvel Turds...for all your favourite sh*t superheroes!

Fysh

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

O_o

Next up: Marvel Turds...for all your favourite sh*t superheroes!

I couldn't make this sh*t up if I tried.

I can't quite put into words how sad it is that the American comics industry is in a position where Marvel Apes gets approved as a project. Well, I can, but they're mostly obscenities...

TheIrishGrover

Fysh wrote: »

Right now, we've go Marvel Apes going on,

Hang on.......... MONKEY Marvel??????

Fysh

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Hang on.......... MONKEY Marvel??????

Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction too. Apparently the whole thing started as a joke during some discussion panel where a fan mentioned the idea. But there again, I'm willing to bet that it sells. Like Ultimates 3 - despite almost everyone agreeing that it's awful, it sold in the hundreds of thousands. So, well, Marvel can get away with peddling this crap, because there are twits out there who'll buy it.

ztoical

ok I know the whole marvel apes thing sounds like something someone came up on while on a very messed up acid trip but I have to admit I thought Spider-Monkey was bloody genius.

BlaasForRafa

Fysh wrote: »

I couldn't make this sh*t up if I tried.

I can't quite put into words how sad it is that the American comics industry is in a position where Marvel Apes gets approved as a project. Well, I can, but they're mostly obscenities...

Has anyone actually read the book? or is it just a chance to slag off Marvel?

I plan on getting the trade, I like Karl Kesels issues of Fantastic Four 3 or four years ago and the book has been getting good reviews.

Marvel has a habit of doing mini series during the autumn out of left field and they've often been enjoyable. Mystic Arcana was a nice little mini a couple of years ago focusing on the magical characters in the marvel universe like Black Knight, Doctor Strange, Illyana etc.
the year before that was the Marvel Monsters Group which was four oneshots having a fond look at the pre Marvel Monster comics of the early 60's with strips done from the likes of Eric Powell and Roger Langridge.

And sometimes its just nice to have comics that are fun.

Jack B. Badd

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

And sometimes its just nice to have comics that are fun.

And sometimes it's nice to have one of the biggest names in the industry come up with something more original than rehashing the same tired material. This isn't exclusively the domain of Marvel but imo it would be like one of the larger tv networks dedicating their time exclusively to spin-offs all from the same show...

Fysh

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Has anyone actually read the book? or is it just a chance to slag off Marvel?

I plan on getting the trade, I like Karl Kesels issues of Fantastic Four 3 or four years ago and the book has been getting good reviews.

I haven't read it and I'm not going to, because no matter how good the execution I'll never be able to get past the exploitative nature of the concept, and since I don't have the affection for the characters that would be needed for me to enjoy simian versions of Marvel's characters, that means there's pretty much no point in me looking at this.

As for reviews....2/5, 2/4, and in the words of Hannibal Tabu "let's never speak of this again". Plus the guys from the Comic Cast weren't exactly complimentary about it either. The impression I get from this is that if you're already really into your Marvel stuff, you might enjoy this. I'm not, and thus I'm almost certain that I won't.

Fysh

On the subject of fun comics: I think that it's something rather lacking amongst a lot of the current superhero fare. Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. was a brilliant action/comedy, but it used characters that I (and probably quite a lot of other people) had never heard of.

I would like to see more fun comics, but there's a difference between "accessible to new readers" fun and "in-jokes for fanboys" fun; I found Marvel Zombies for example to be full of the latter, and don't see any reason to expect Marvel Apes to be any different.

AngryBadger

Fysh wrote: »

But there again, I'm willing to bet that it sells. Like Ultimates 3 - despite almost everyone agreeing that it's awful, it sold in the hundreds of thousands. So, well, Marvel can get away with peddling this crap, because there are twits out there who'll buy it.

This pretty much sums it up for me. And to eb honest I don't really care if marvel are putting out tonnes of absolutely arse "alternate reality" books, as long as they're producing comics that ARE worthy of my hard-earned monies, and I gotta say that away form the idiotic "Apes" notion, I'm enjoying a lot of marvel books right now. "Thor", "Invincible Iron man", and "Wolverine" just to pick 3.

My attitude to spin-offs/crazy alternate realities/miscellaenous is that if the concept/art pitch grabs my attention I may pick up the first issue, and if it's garbage I won't pick up anymore. Eg. "Ultimates 3", the first issue was so terrible I can't find the words to describe it, and I haven't even looked at an issue since. I won't be picking up any of these "Apes" books.

But as long as Marvel makes a good turnover on it, that money can be put into other projects, so I'm happy enough.

And re: new characters/material, I think it would be great to see Marvel doing more imprints which dealt with other types of stories/characters (i.e. as with the Vertigo line over at DC), but to be fair I think the multiple imprints under which they publish books on their current stable of characters do a great job at telling very different stories, that appeal to very different audiences. Which is fine by me. And while there may not be as many "new" characters in the mainstream Marvel U., I feel they've done a great job of re-vitalising a load of older properties, and making most of their characters more accessible than they've ever been.

In summary; don't buy the garbage "Ape" books, or the particular imprints aimed at kids, just buy whatever books you like (if any) and let the peons line Marvels coffers by reading the crap.

Fysh

AngryBadger wrote: »

as long as they're producing comics that ARE worthy of my hard-earned monies, and I gotta say that away form the idiotic "Apes" notion, I'm enjoying a lot of marvel books right now. "Thor", "Invincible Iron man", and "Wolverine" just to pick 3.

Is that Millar's "Old Man Logan" run for Wolverine? I must admit I'm curious about Thor, I really liked Rising Stars and Babylon 5 and JMS has a storytelling technique that appeals to me. I may check out the trade when it hits and see how it fares. Invincible Iron Man has been great with Fraction so far, and I reckon I'll stick with it as he's apparently going to be on the book for at least another year. (It's so nice to see that a blatantly science-fiction title is being handed over to writers who can actually do science fiction, rather than the total nonsense they had going on in stories like Mask In The Iron Man...)

AngryBadger

Fysh wrote: »

Is that Millar's "Old Man Logan" run for Wolverine? I must admit I'm curious about Thor, I really liked Rising Stars and Babylon 5 and JMS has a storytelling technique that appeals to me. I may check out the trade when it hits and see how it fares. Invincible Iron Man has been great with Fraction so far, and I reckon I'll stick with it as he's apparently going to be on the book for at least another year. (It's so nice to see that a blatantly science-fiction title is being handed over to writers who can actually do science fiction, rather than the total nonsense they had going on in stories like Mask In The Iron Man...)

Yes "Old Man Logan", "Thor" is pretty dam good, and it's been beefed up with a few Matt Fraction one-shots! JMS stuff is generally fantastic, I loved his work on "Amazing Spider-man", and what I'm enjoying about "Thor" is that it doesn't read like a super-hero story, it's more about Asgard, Thor and the resurrection of their whole mythos, and so far I'm really enjoying it!

BlaasForRafa

AngryBadger wrote: »

Yes "Old Man Logan", "Thor" is pretty dam good, and it's been beefed up with a few Matt Fraction one-shots! JMS stuff is generally fantastic, I loved his work on "Amazing Spider-man", and what I'm enjoying about "Thor" is that it doesn't read like a super-hero story, it's more about Asgard, Thor and the resurrection of their whole mythos, and so far I'm really enjoying it!

JMS is responsible for that despicable story "Sins Past", I canned Amazing Spiderman after that, thank god Jrjr wasn't involved with that story. I haven't bought a JMS book since then.

Captain America goes from strength to strength, Immortal Iron fist is still good, Incredilbe Hercules is great and Deadpool is unexpectedly a very good book.