UTV Broadband Customer Rip Off

njprrogers

I've just gone to move my broadband and phone service over to Magnet from UTV.

When I signed up to UTV 3 years ago you were penalised for breaking the contract in the first 12 months. After that period, there was no charge.

Also, the modem was included in the set up fee of €29.99.

When contacted to switch, I was told that I would have to pay for 30 days after giving notice - even if it only took 7 days to switch.
(A Nice little earner, that).
Also, I would have to return the modem within 7 days or face a charge.
(A Nice little earner, that).
Also, there had been a change in the terms and conditions and a cancellation fee had been added in July 2007 regardless of how long you are with them (53.99 within 6 months, 29.99 after that).
(A Nice little earner, that).

So, I go to their website and find that they have reduced their premium broadband from €39.99 to €23.99 since February but I have been paying €39.99.

A quick look on this forum indicates that when challenged on this, they say something about problems changing the terms and conditions.

They don't seem to have a problem changing terms and conditions when they want add a new fee, just when it suits them not to reduce a customers tariff.

Anybody else had issues with these guys?

Cabaal

Also not impressed with UTV's activity's, currently on upto 3MB package and queried upgrading to 7.6MB....now I have no problem what-so-ever about going into a contract, but they'll charge me 60e if I'm in my current contract or 30e if outside it to change to a new UTV package

So even though its not costing them a penny to change my line profile and they physically do not have to do any line work and I'm actually not leaving UTV they'll charge me a "cancellation fee" for changing my current package to a new one even though I'm not canceling my account at all.

Charges are outlined here - https://ssl.u.tv/UTV_Internet/Residential/ClicksilverBroadband/legal_information.asp

Think I'll be having a word with them over this,

Luckily I paid no setup fee or modem charge when I signed up,

Cabaal

I've had a look through there T&C's

"16.1.5 UTV Internet reserve the right to charge a termination fee to you, on top of any other money owed, should you cease your Eircom or other authorised operator's line or contract therefore or discontinue your ClickSilver service."

So as I'm not canceling any service I don't see how they can apply this fee, especially if your outside of the min 6 month contract period....all very dodgy stuff imho.

Onikage

Sounds like an eager beaver in the call centre - one who doesn't have their facts straight.

1. The price plan you are currently on (39.99 a month) is an old one that allows you to cancel for free after the minimum 12 months. I'm not sure if it requires 30 days notice, you would need to check your original T&Cs (no longer available on the web site, maybe you have it stuffed in a drawer somewhere?)

2. Technically the modem is supposed to be returned, but in reality they don't want crappy old modems coming back (they can't send them out to new customers). Ask where you should return it to and you may find they will waive the charge. Ask them where you can drop it in yourself to really worry them.

3. Yes, well, the thing about the changing prices... in reality it is still a good deal because the price is going down by almost 15e a month... even once they clawback the 30e you have still saved a lot, just not as much as you originally thought you would. Most communications companies don't advise their customers to go to newer, better plans (nor banks come to think of it)

Can't defend the upgrading though, most companies are more sensible (and happy that their customers want to pay more each month)

Cabaal

links to the old T&C's are here - https://ssl.u.tv/UTV_Internet/Residential/ClicksilverBroadband/legal_information.asp

They'd get me into a new contract and earn 10e extra month for me if they didn't charge me, happy days eh...or so you'd think they'dn want to

J-blk

I canceled UTV years ago and they never came looking for the modem even though it was stated that you had to return it. It ended up in the bin eventually.

Cabaal

The modems they shipped years ago were USB, given the amount of potential issues USB modems have compared to ethernet I really doubt they'll want any USB modems back

Onikage

Cabaal wrote: »

links to the old T&C's are here - https://ssl.u.tv/UTV_Internet/Residential/ClicksilverBroadband/legal_information.asp

Those are the new T&C's. Try these:

http://www4.u.tv/UTV_Internet/Residential/ClicksilverBroadband/PDFs/ROI_DSL_Res_TandCs_up_to_30_June_2005.pdf

Cabaal

Onikage wrote: »

Those are the new T&C's. Try these:

http://www4.u.tv/UTV_Internet/Residential/ClicksilverBroadband/PDFs/ROI_DSL_Res_TandCs_up_to_30_June_2005.pdf

they are but they also include links to the older one's if you click on ther T&C';s tab

njprrogers

Cabaal wrote: »

Also not impressed with UTV's activity's, currently on upto 3MB package and queried upgrading to 7.6MB....now I have no problem what-so-ever about going into a contract, but they'll charge me 60e if I'm in my current contract or 30e if outside it to change to a new UTV package

So even though its not costing them a penny to change my line profile and they physically do not have to do any line work and I'm actually not leaving UTV they'll charge me a "cancellation fee" for changing my current package to a new one even though I'm not canceling my account at all.

Charges are outlined here - https://ssl.u.tv/UTV_Internet/Residential/ClicksilverBroadband/legal_information.asp

Think I'll be having a word with them over this,

Luckily I paid no setup fee or modem charge when I signed up,

I got the vibe that they weren't going to charge me to change over to the new price.

And it isn't a case of changing plans. I started on the Clicksilver Plus plan at €39.99 and they changed the price and speed of that plan but chose not to inform their existing customers.

Why?

Because they could.

njprrogers

Has anyone tried to raise an issue with ComReg?

Is that a complete waste of time?

ardmacha

If you don't leave UTV and don't downgrade your package they won't charge you anything. However your new terms and conditions for the lower priced service will have a cancellation fee, which would arise if you did change to another provider.

EKRIUQ

I'm just after switching from UTV and as of yet I haven't received any mailing from them except a sorry to see you go email.(I wasn't sorry)

I left because of the over charge since February and when I queried it, it took 3 weeks to get a support ticket reply and 4 phone calls to get a reply via their admin system I was told someone would ring me back each time but in the mean time I had shopped around and found a newer cheaper supplier.

They haven’t asked for the modem( over4 years old)m and I haven’t seen any extra charges yet!

Cabaal

This is my only big problem/concern with UTV, upto now they've always replied to my trouble tickets and they've even given me my login details the day my line went live and was syncing even though Eircom hadn't told them it was live yet.

Onikage

Cabaal wrote: »

they are but they also include links to the older one's if you click on ther T&C';s tab

Right you are. Should have guessed something was up!

njprrogers wrote: »

Has anyone tried to raise an issue with ComReg?

Is that a complete waste of time?

It seems to be an accepted practice across quite a few industries. How many people are still on old mobile plans for instance?

njprrogers

Onikage wrote: »

It seems to be an accepted practice across quite a few industries. How many people are still on old mobile plans for instance?

It's not a practice that I accept. Your reward for customer loyalty - 3 years with a company - is to receive an inferior product at a greater price.

J-blk

njprrogers wrote: »

It's not a practice that I accept. Your reward for customer loyalty - 3 years with a company - is to receive an inferior product at a greater price.

Unfortunately this is becoming a very common practice with ISPs/Telcos - they only seem to care about getting new customers into a new 12 month contract and don't give a crap about the existing customer base. You're right, we shouldn't accept that practice and for the most part, the companies that have really p****d me off (UTV included) have lost me as a customer forever. The problem is that we don't have that much competition over here as far as ISPs/Telcos go and sometimes your only option is to choose the lesser evil...

Sully

I am also one customer who was paying the higher price not realising I could be on a cheaper package. When asked why, we were told it was up to yourselves to find that information out.

Onikage

njprrogers wrote: »

It's not a practice that I accept. Your reward for customer loyalty - 3 years with a company - is to receive an inferior product at a greater price.

After 12 months you are free to take out a new contract and avail of the newer, lower rate HOWEVER this means you have a new contract with new T&C's. Under Irish law one party cannot change a contract once it is in place, hence UTV cannot automatically move you to the new plan and contract. They COULD charge you less or they COULD send you a reminder but they're not obliged to and really have no reason to. Caveat emptor.

Comreg won't be much use to you but the small claims court might. If they try and apply the migration/cancellation fee you would be able to argue that you should be retroactively entitled to the lower rate - which would be worth hundreds of euro in your case.

IsThatSo?

I left UTV last April having been with them for 4 years. The entire experience was a farce.

There are so many different T & C's for different times when people signed contracts that I wasn't able to make out which one I should be reading. In the end they did charge me a €30 cancellation fee, but I did not have to return the modem as it was such a dinosaur.

They continued to charge me for the phone line for a few months afterwards, even after the number had been ported over to my new service provider :eek: They kept telling me that they had not been told of the phone line cancellation, FFS, I told them in many phone calls and emails and the number wasn't theirs anymore. There was no records of calls from the date of the transfer and they still pulled out reams of red tape. The mind boggles....................

Eventually I got a refund. It was short about €10 but I didn't follow it up, I just didn't have the energy after 4 months of wrangling over stupid stuff.

They used to be brilliant, so efficient. By the time I left it was difficult to get any response by phone or email. They got greedy and took on more customers than they could handle, imo. Nature of the corporate beast I suppose :rolleyes:

They do make it very hard to leave, so hang in there OP. Do everything by email and keep them. I kept my stuff to one CS person who was probably sick at the sight of emails from me, but at least I wasn't being passed from Billy to Jack. I also kept screenshots of my account and the charges etc as I wasn't sure when my access would be cut off.

ardmacha

How many people are still on old mobile plans for instance?

Exactly, Vodafone or O2 don't tell you to move to a new tariff. UTV provide their statements online, a quick click around the website when checking your bill is all that is needed to identify new tariffs.

njprrogers

Onikage wrote: »

After 12 months you are free to take out a new contract and avail of the newer, lower rate HOWEVER this means you have a new contract with new T&C's. Under Irish law one party cannot change a contract once it is in place, hence UTV cannot automatically move you to the new plan and contract. They COULD charge you less or they COULD send you a reminder but they're not obliged to and really have no reason to. Caveat emptor.

Can't change contract details once in place?

The lovely lady at UTV seems to disagree.

Dear Mr. Rogers,


The terms and conditions were amended and you were advised of this via email and had sufficient time to question these changes. One of the changes was an introduction of the two different cancellation fees; €59.99 before 6months and €29.99 anytime after 6months. In regards to the transfer, it is up to your new provider to arrange for this, unfortunately we cannot do this on your behalf, therefore they will advise you of the date of transfer. If you require more than 30days then please advise us before the cancellation date.



Kind Regards,

X
UTV admin

JohnOwonga

Cabaal wrote: »

Also not impressed with UTV's activity's, currently on upto 3MB package and queried upgrading to 7.6MB....now I have no problem what-so-ever about going into a contract, but they'll charge me 60e if I'm in my current contract or 30e if outside it to change to a new UTV package

So even though its not costing them a penny to change my line profile and they physically do not have to do any line work and I'm actually not leaving UTV they'll charge me a "cancellation fee" for changing my current package to a new one even though I'm not canceling my account at all.

Charges are outlined here - https://ssl.u.tv/UTV_Internet/Residential/ClicksilverBroadband/legal_information.asp

Think I'll be having a word with them over this,

Luckily I paid no setup fee or modem charge when I signed up,

>>>
Yes true they have a penalty for nearly everything from €29:99 Euros to downgrade to a lower plan reason they say they blame Eircom for this
I think even if you try and leave after 12months you get clobbered with a fee too.
I think if they have your Creditcard details they can milk it as a credit card is a gauranteed form of payment even if you cancel it.
Variable direct debit from bank is a better idea easier to stop,
These companies Isps spend all their time thinking up ideas to extract the max from people:)

Regards

JohnOwonga

Cabaal wrote: »

Also not impressed with UTV's activity's, currently on upto 3MB package and queried upgrading to 7.6MB....now I have no problem what-so-ever about going into a contract, but they'll charge me 60e if I'm in my current contract or 30e if outside it to change to a new UTV package

So even though its not costing them a penny to change my line profile and they physically do not have to do any line work and I'm actually not leaving UTV they'll charge me a "cancellation fee" for changing my current package to a new one even though I'm not canceling my account at all.

Charges are outlined here - https://ssl.u.tv/UTV_Internet/Residential/ClicksilverBroadband/legal_information.asp

Think I'll be having a word with them over this,

Luckily I paid no setup fee or modem charge when I signed up,

>>>
I was told by UTV to hold back with 7.6MEG upgrade as people were having problems they were getting a slower speed than they originally had is this still the case:) ? plus you enter into a new 12 month contract with them no mention of upgrade fee just a downgrade fee even if they did not deliver the goods such con men.

dub45

Onikage wrote: »

After 12 months you are free to take out a new contract and avail of the newer, lower rate HOWEVER this means you have a new contract with new T&C's. Under Irish law one party cannot change a contract once it is in place, hence UTV cannot automatically move you to the new plan and contract. They COULD charge you less or they COULD send you a reminder but they're not obliged to and really have no reason to. Caveat emptor.

Comreg won't be much use to you but the small claims court might. If they try and apply the migration/cancellation fee you would be able to argue that you should be retroactively entitled to the lower rate - which would be worth hundreds of euro in your case.

The point here is that the products are changing for the better (at least on paper). Eircom make new products availabe to other isps at the same wholesale price. So the basic contract product is bein improved. Why shouldn't UTV pass these new products on without requiring a new contract? It has nothing got to do with the law UTV are just exploiting a situation to tie customers in to a further 12 month contract.

Eircom upgrade their customers each time they introduce new products without requiring a new contract so why shouldnt UTV?

UTV began this process a number of years ago when the era of 'cute hoorism' as I dubbed it then hit them. I criticised them at the time and people on boards actually defended them believe it or not!!!! But that was when UTV were once the darlings of boards. Hard to believe now sadly.

Onikage

I still think the service rep is doing this off his/her own bat, without any regard to the facts.

Some info on your rights:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/consumer-rights/unfair_terms/?searchterm=contracts

You clearly fall into the first category.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1995/en/si/0027.html

Note the bit where it says you don't have to abide by the terms of an unfair contract (6.1)

I'd be happy, paying 30e now would get me back over 200e later in the small claims court.

JohnOwonga

Onikage wrote: »

I still think the service rep is doing this off his/her own bat, without any regard to the facts.

Some info on your rights:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/consumer-rights/unfair_terms/?searchterm=contracts

You clearly fall into the first category.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1995/en/si/0027.html

Note the bit where it says you don't have to abide by the terms of an unfair contract (6.1)
>>>
I'd be happy, paying 30e now would get me back over 200e later in the small claims court.

>>>
Look before you leap the Small Claims Court has a long waiting list plus all the preparation and time of work parking stress etc.

Then there is the enforcement UTV Internet is in a different Jurisdiction,
the bailliffs are very poor in collecting small claims amounts due having been successful in court.

The Law is an Ass at the best of times.
Your best course of action would be bad publicity with a website and the website URL on the bumper sticker for free hits lol

Hopefully you can resolve this issue.
"Once they have got your money they got your Power"

JohnOwonga

njprrogers wrote: »

Can't change contract details once in place?

The lovely lady at UTV seems to disagree.

Dear Mr. Rogers,


The terms and conditions were amended and you were advised of this via email and had sufficient time to question these changes. One of the changes was an introduction of the two different cancellation fees; €59.99 before 6months and €29.99 anytime after 6months. In regards to the transfer, it is up to your new provider to arrange for this, unfortunately we cannot do this on your behalf, therefore they will advise you of the date of transfer. If you require more than 30days then please advise us before the cancellation date.



Kind Regards,

X
UTV admin

>>>>>>>>
Here if you want to settle this it will involve small claims court in Belfast United Kingdom
Read the fine print.

UTV Internet reserves the right to vary the terms of this Agreement or the nature of the Service (where the
technical specification of the Service is varied) at any time and UTV Internet will inform you of any such
changes through e-mail, newsletter or such other medium, as UTV Internet considers appropriate not less

than one month prior to the implementation of such variation.
23.1 This Agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with Northern Ireland Law and,
subject to Clause 19.9 herein, the parties hereby agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the High
Court of Northern Ireland in respect of any dispute or matter arising out of or in connection with the
Agreement.
23.2 This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between the parties and supersedes representations,
communications and prior agreements (oral or written). This Clause shall not apply to any statement,
representation, or warranty made fraudulently, or to any provision of this Agreement that was induced by
fraud for which the remedies available shall be all those available under the law.

njprrogers

They can't take money from an account with nothing in it. (Not credit card!).

We'll have a more reasonable discussion if they are trying to get paid as opposed to me getting reimbursed.

Also, the website thing would interest me. I'm a web designer by trade and sticking a forum up would take me an only slightly agitated hour... I notice www dot utvbroadband dot net is free... I could then search engine optimise the hell out of it. As I have my own hosting servers, the net cost would 5.99 for the domain.

You'd all have to promise to come and visit though

Onikage

Sure. Only until you get your money back though.

JohnOwonga

njprrogers wrote: »

They can't take money from an account with nothing in it. (Not credit card!).

We'll have a more reasonable discussion if they are trying to get paid as opposed to me getting reimbursed.

Also, the website thing would interest me. I'm a web designer by trade and sticking a forum up would take me an only slightly agitated hour... I notice www dot utvbroadband dot net is free... I could then search engine optimise the hell out of it. As I have my own hosting servers, the net cost would 5.99 for the domain.

You'd all have to promise to come and visit though

>>>
Well I remember having a discussion with Disputes at my Credit Card Company I explained the situation having signed up to one of those wonderful "variable direct debit authorizations " using my Credit Card

When I was overbilled by BTIreland I contacted them through normal channels,I even went into them in person yes they were very nice but
did nothing about it.
The only solution was to leave,The credit card company said cancelling the Credit Card did not exonerate one from any debts real or imaginary
they can still charge you and if you do not pay they will blacklist your credit rating with a credit rating agency or hand it over to a Bailiff on a No Win No Fee Basis who will pursue you with interest and Bailiffs collections fees lol

Regards

dub45

JohnOwonga wrote: »

>>>
Well I remember having a discussion with Disputes at my Credit Card Company I explained the situation having signed up to one of those wonderful "variable direct debit authorizations " using my Credit Card

When I was overbilled by BTIreland I contacted them through normal channels,I even went into them in person yes they were very nice but
did nothing about it.
The only solution was to leave,The credit card company said cancelling the Credit Card did not exonerate one from any debts real or imaginary
they can still charge you and if you do not pay they will blacklist your credit rating with a credit rating agency or hand it over to a Bailiff on a No Win No Fee Basis who will pursue you with interest and Bailiffs collections fees lol

Regards

If at any stage you propose to terminate your payment arrangements it is very very important to have record of your dealings with the company. Keep a record from the start of any potential dispute, copies of emails, dates and contents of telephone calls. And for the final letter I would suggest summarising the problems to date and the reason you are no longer willing to pay. I would register this final letter - it is worth the fiver to maybe save your credit rating.

Pansy Potter

dub45 wrote: »

The point here is that the products are changing for the better (at least on paper). Eircom make new products availabe to other isps at the same wholesale price. So the basic contract product is bein improved. Why shouldn't UTV pass these new products on without requiring a new contract? It has nothing got to do with the law UTV are just exploiting a situation to tie customers in to a further 12 month contract.

Eircom upgrade their customers each time they introduce new products without requiring a new contract so why shouldnt UTV?

UTV began this process a number of years ago when the era of 'cute hoorism' as I dubbed it then hit them. I criticised them at the time and people on boards actually defended them believe it or not!!!! But that was when UTV were once the darlings of boards. Hard to believe now sadly.

I am with UTV and upgraded from the 2Mb package to the 3Mb some time ago. There was no charge for upgrading, just an increased monthly price, which is to be expected. They have not charged anyone nor have they made them enter a new contract for eircom's recent speed increase. If you choose to upgrade to Clicksilver Plus (a UTV product) you will have to sign a new 12 month contract, but there isnt now, and never has been a requirement to enter into a new contract when the wholesale product from eircom is upgraded/improved.

JohnOwonga

Pansy Potter wrote: »

I am with UTV and upgraded from the 2Mb package to the 3Mb some time ago. There was no charge for upgrading, just an increased monthly price, which is to be expected. They have not charged anyone nor have they made them enter a new contract for eircom's recent speed increase. If you choose to upgrade to Clicksilver Plus (a UTV product) you will have to sign a new 12 month contract, but there isnt now, and never has been a requirement to enter into a new contract when the wholesale product from eircom is upgraded/improved.

So Pansy Potter are you endorsing UTV Internet for Value for Money Service &
Technical support?
Regards

dub45

Pansy Potter wrote: »

I am with UTV and upgraded from the 2Mb package to the 3Mb some time ago. There was no charge for upgrading, just an increased monthly price, which is to be expected. They have not charged anyone nor have they made them enter a new contract for eircom's recent speed increase. If you choose to upgrade to Clicksilver Plus (a UTV product) you will have to sign a new 12 month contract,
but there isnt now, and never has been a requirement to enter into a new contract when the wholesale product from eircom is upgraded/improved.

That is wrong pure and simple.

JohnOwonga

dub45 wrote: »

That is wrong pure and simple.

As is normal its who has the most money and what they can get away with which prevails.

leche solara

I am with UTV too. When I first joined them a few years ago, they sold a 512mb broadband package. Soon after, eircom doubled the speeds to 1Mb and this was automatically passed on without a price increase or change to contract. Later the standard broadband package was further doubled by eircom and this too was passed on without price increase or new contract. I have since upscaled to the top package and pay extra for this, and recently eircom pushed thsi up to 7.6 which I now (almost) receive and I am paying the same price to UTV €23.99 per month and have not been required to sign a new contract. Over the years I've been with UTV I've had the occasional problem (billing, service etc.) and while they are slow to respond I am happy that they generally get there in the end. I think their Tech Support people are usually more clued in than other ISPs, but it seems that there arent enough of them.

On the whole I would give UTV a reserved thumbs up.