New Camera: Digital Compact or DSLR - Confused ?

eddiem74

Hi Everyone,

Need some help in choosing a new digital camera. I have owned nothing special to date, and am now looking to purchase something effective and efficient. I am really a novice here, so hope this is clear?

My criteria/'wants' would be:

• Primary use would be for:
  • family photos - indoors & out
  • family functions
  • kids dancing
  • kids sporting events
  • holidays
• Speed
  • I found some of my old digital cameras often take a few seconds to focus/take the picture or sometimes just get stuck trying to focus. The shot is often lost or not as good.
• I do not intend at present to take up photography or become a professional, however do want something which will give me quality pics.
• I am open to some minor learning if the recommended camera requires it in order to get quality pics. (Probably a given :pac:)
• I would intend to do no further (or very minor) post processing of the pictures outside of what the camera does (i think).
• I would like to use online websites to print out the pics in various sizes, including large potraits 12x10 or bigger, and do some collages also.
• Should probably be family/wife friendly to use.

Hopefully this is suffient for you to see what my needs are.

At present I was considering the Canon Powershot G9 (or possibly the new G10, depending on reviews) or perhaps a Nikon D40. I really don't know if this is more than I need or not, but know I want something good.

Advice welcome. Thanks !

Hugh_C

eddiem74 wrote: »

or perhaps a Nikon D40. I really don't know if this is more than I need or not, but know I want something good.

What's you budget?

Eddie, why don't you go into one of the camera shops in Dublin (if that's convenient to you) and ask to hold a few of these cameras? See how they feel in the hand, and have a look through them.

Personally I'd advise you to get some sort of entry level dSLR - there's probably not a lot to choose between entry level Canon & Nikon (I prefer the latter but that's just me). I've heard people talk about bridge cameras, somewhere between a rally good compact and an entry level dSLR but I have no direct experience of them, maybe that would suit you.

You could have a look at the FAQs in here too, they might give you a steer

regards,

Hugh

whyulittle

I was using someone's bridge camera last night, and one of the better Fuji ones. It is still no substitute for a DSLR though. As the OP mentioned himself, so slow to focus and actually take the shot.

eddiem74

Hugh_C wrote: »

What's you budget?

Probably 500euro'ish although the G9 for example would be less than 400.

dakar

Hi there,

It is a pleasant change to see a post from someone who has put some thought into what they want rather than just a 'tell me what camera to buy' type post:)

eddiem74 wrote: »

[*]Speed

• I found some of my old digital cameras often take a few seconds to focus/take the picture or sometimes just get stuck trying to focus. The shot is often lost or not as good.

For this reason alone, I think an SLR is probably the way to go. In general (although I have no experience of the G9 specifically) SLRS will respond much more quickly than compacts in terms of getting 'the shot', and there is nothing more frustrating when photographing kids particularly than missing 'the moment', blowing out candles, splashing at the beach, whatever.

Also I think in terms of image quality and noise, SLRs in general come out on top.

For printing up to about A4, 6mp is probably enough, though it's handy to have some spare pixels for a tighter crop, so maybe 8-10mp range should do. Incidentally 6mp from an SLR is going to have better image quality than 6mp from a compact, there's been a post on here recently on that topic.

Go into a shop and see what feels good in your hand is probably the best advice you'll get:)

Good luck and happy shooting.

Edit/ forgot to say that if the bug does bite (and I speak from experience) Slr gives you much more versatility down the line.

Morrisseeee

Check out Pixmania.com, Komplett.ie, Connscameras.com, parkcameras.com(Eng) etc. & get a feel for prices.

eddiem74

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Check out Pixmania.com, Komplett.ie, Connscameras.com, parkcameras.com(Eng) etc. & get a feel for prices.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Have been doing a bit of browsing already and pixmania looks good for prices, however need to narrow down what I am planning to purchase before getting to bogged down in browsing. I am 99% sure I will be purchasing online.

eddiem74

Okay, so can you advise on some shops in Dublin to pay a visit too which would have what I am potientially looking for ?

I know there is a camera shop in the Blanch Shopping Center, but not sure where the good ones are?

Thanks again.

Morrisseeee

54 Clarendon Street ,
Dublin 2, Ireland

Danbo!

Pixels - Liffey street, off Grafton Street and Baggot Street
The camera centre - Grafton street and the square in tallaght
Conn's Cameras - behind brown thomas.

And theres loads more....

All can be pricey compared to online, but you can at least get a feel for different cameras and try them out there first. Was in the camera shop in blanchardstown a while back and they just seemed to push the most expensive stuff on me, even though I knew exactly what I wanted, kinda frustrating.

Cicero

Taking all your criteria into account, I would recommend you go to a camera shop and ask to try the Canon G9 . ..I have the G7 which is the slightly older version of this camera- it has everything from point and shoot to full creative manual mode, so you can learn a bit about the creative side of photography but still lend it to a family member and tell them to just point and shoot

The speed time lag is very short on the G7 so can only assume its even better on the G9 - I've certainly been please overall with the results.

In terms of portability, the G9 will certainly be better than an SLR, especially on holidays.

Saying all that, I'd prefer to see you going into a camera shop yourself - try out both an SLR and a good compact like the G9 and then make your decision

Best of Luck with your choice

eddiem74

Am gonna go into the shops for some browsing over the next week. I think I have narrowed down my choice to:

- Canon Powershot G9 (or maybe G10)
- Nikon D60

Will let you know how I get on.

Thanks for all the help.

eddiem74

Okay, I am leaning towards the Nikon D60 as speed of shot is a must I feel, and therefore DSLR is required.

So it seems I can purchase the D60 with a kit lense, and then also an extra 55-200mm lense bundled in if I choose. Is this something I would need at the start or am I just better going with the kit lense, and getting to grips with that first ?

I guess I now see I need to understand lenses, and what exactly the differences are. :eek: Anyone got a link to a dummies guide to lenses ?

kmick

Dont buy any of the kit lenses.
Get a decent fixed prime say a 50mm.
The kit lenses on these things are garbage.
Oh and be prepared to spend half you life looking at new lenses when you buy an SLR

CabanSail

eddiem74 wrote: »

Okay, I am leaning towards the Nikon D60 as speed of shot is a must I feel, and therefore DSLR is required.

So it seems I can purchase the D60 with a kit lense, and then also an extra 55-200mm lense bundled in if I choose. Is this something I would need at the start or am I just better going with the kit lense, and getting to grips with that first ?

I guess I now see I need to understand lenses, and what exactly the differences are. :eek: Anyone got a link to a dummies guide to lenses ?

For general photography the Kit Lens will be fine. If you have the cash to cover the longer zoom then get it, you will find it handy for the Kids Sports.

The Kit lenses are not garbage, but they are built to a price. If you advance in photography & the bug bites you will find their limitations. It would then be time to save up for some better glass. The Kit lens will allow you to learn a lot & serve most general purposes, the flexibility of having zoom will probably be more value to you than the added sharpness/speed you will get in a prime (non-zoom) lens. I know a photographer in Scotland who does lovely landscapes & he has a D70S with the Kit 18-70 lens.

If I come across a "Dummies guide to Lenses" I will send you the link. Good luck & enjoy the adventure of learning about photography.

kmick

You will spend the same on a 50mm prime as you will on the kit lens (give or take) and your results will be much better. You will not get decent sports shots with a kit zoom unless the light is great and you have a tripod. My two cents but when I bought my SLR with two kit zooms I found the results were atrocious and if I had bought the 50mm 1.8 for 150 euro I would have saved myself a lot of time.

catho9000

ebay is good value for money for deigital cameras

eddiem74

kmick wrote: »

You will spend the same on a 50mm prime as you will on the kit lens (give or take) and your results will be much better. You will not get decent sports shots with a kit zoom unless the light is great and you have a tripod. My two cents but when I bought my SLR with two kit zooms I found the results were atrocious and if I had bought the 50mm 1.8 for 150 euro I would have saved myself a lot of time.

This is where the "Lense Guide for Dummies" would come in handy. :rolleyes:

You have to realise I know little to nothing about what I need, apart from what I have already stated. I am a complete novice who just wants something to get decent pics.

CabanSail

This seems to go through the basics about Lenes. Not read it thoroughly but appears to be an article mainly towards 35mm film cameras.

Lionsden

kmick wrote: »

You will spend the same on a 50mm prime as you will on the kit lens (give or take) and your results will be much better. You will not get decent sports shots with a kit zoom unless the light is great and you have a tripod. My two cents but when I bought my SLR with two kit zooms I found the results were atrocious and if I had bought the 50mm 1.8 for 150 euro I would have saved myself a lot of time.

I may be wrong, but I'm guessing you shoot Canon..... :D


The Nikon kit lenses are actually quite good and have gotten very good reviews, (I use them myself..). They're definately worth the extra few euro. Get a 50mm prime as well and all three will compliment each other and give you some flexibility. I love my nifty fifty, but I wouldn't shoot exclusively with it. It just doesn't suit every occasion and the OP has a varied list of shooting to do.

CabanSail

I have had a similar experience with Nikon Kit Lenses. They are good for general use. The more expensive glass they produce is, of course, much better.

eddiem74

Okay, I am looking at the NIKON D60 + AF-S DX VR NIKKOR 18-55 mm Lens and AF-S VR DX 55-200 mm Lens from Pixmania at 645euro.

They also include a bag and 4GB card for 686euro. Is the bag/card any good ?

Anyone know of better offers ?

Thanks !

Cicero

Remember why you're buying the camera- your children playing/ portraits etc, holidays etc etc

A good 50mm lens with a 1.4 aperature (your first lesson is to explore what that means will allow you a lot of scope to get very sharp very responsive very creative photos. - this will be especially usefull for good photos under low-light conditions, walking around cities when on holiday and when you mightn't want to carry around such a bulky lens.

If you support this with a generally good 75-200/300mm lens, then you will have the flexibility that comes with a zoom to capture other types of scenes that may be to far away for the 50mm- I wouldn't buy 2 zooms for the moment- one fixed 50mm and 1 zoom is all you will need for the moment

eddiem74

kmick wrote: »

You will spend the same on a 50mm prime as you will on the kit lens (give or take) and your results will be much better.... if I had bought the 50mm 1.8 for 150 euro I would have saved myself a lot of time.

Cicero wrote: »

A good 50mm lens with a 1.4 aperature (your first lesson is to explore what that means will allow you a lot of scope to get very sharp very responsive very creative photos. - this will be especially usefull for good photos under low-light conditions, walking around cities when on holiday and when you mightn't want to carry around such a bulky lens.

So I now have 2 recommendations for 50mm lense, one for 1.8 and one for 1.4, it also seems the 1.4 is more expensive. Should I be looking at Nikon lenses or something else ?

dakar

I'd say go with the Nikon 50mm f1.8 for starters, check the 'nifty fifty' bit of the FAQ.

It's a great lens and one thats spending more and more time on my D300.

What you'll find is that on one hand, it gives you a lot of freedom with lower light situations (and it really does make a difference over the kit lens) and a lot more control over depth of field (very important creative option) but on the other hand, the 75mm equivalent focal length is a bit restrictive and forces you to think on your feet, and sometimes even with your feet (a feature called bipedal zoom:)). The image quality is lovely.

At some stage, I'll probably go for the f1.4 (even better for lower light, even better image and build quality, even shallower DOF) but at the minute, I'm happy with the f1.8 and would happily recommend it to anyone.

Cicero

Eddiem 74

Would agree with Dakar's post. The 50mm 1.8 is a good lens, especially for starting out. The 1.4 will give you better quality again, but obviously costs more, so you might want to save your pennies for the moment, until you decide how deep you want to go.

The idea of buying a 50mm fixed lens is that you will get sharper pictures because you will be able to better control what is known as depth of field- these lenses have a lower aperature number or f stop, (1.8 / 1.4) than normal zoom lenses - in simple terms, the aperature plays a big role in sharpness of subject, hence the lower the apperature (f stop number), the more in focus your subject (sharper), and the more blurred the background- a lower f stop lens is a useful thing to have in low-light conditions- this is where your zoom lens may start to fail you a bit, or take longer to focus- possibly missing a good shot.

Ensure you purchase a clear filter with the lens,to protect it from dust/dirt- you can buy this from a local camera shop who will be able to give you a lesson in this and other filters and what they can do. (there's loads on the net so no point in reproducing everything here - here's wikpedia on filters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_filter


Get a few lessons in a camera club/ night class and you'll be hooked for life- plenty of general information elsewhere in the boards photography section so have a look there also

Arkana

eddiem74 wrote: »

Okay, so can you advise on some shops in Dublin to pay a visit too which would have what I am potientially looking for ?
I know there is a camera shop in the Blanch Shopping Center, but not sure where the good ones are?
Thanks again.

Well, in BSC are several 'camera shops', but only one that is dealing with professional cameras as well, that is CAMERA at the lower floor, beside the bookshop. It is the first branch of the 'mother shop' in Grafton Street. If you want to have good sales advice, my recommendation is - go to that shop in Grafton Street. Staff there is far better informed and - that's my impression - does listen better to your needs, whether you are a professional or a 'newbie'.

Well, I have worked in the past in Germany as a professional photographer and probably will start in the near future an own business again. If your budget is around 500 Euro, I recommend 'bridge-cameras', that are cameras 'in between', neither compact nor dslr, but something in between. Up to last year I worked with the Fuji Finepix 5000 (beside my other ten cameras), a fine camera of this kind but I experienced the same problem as you - AF much too slow. for kiddies, animals and sports photographies not suitable. I sold the camera to a good friend (who is happy with that, by the way!) and replaced it by a Panasonic FZ7, much faster AF, better CCD and - the best - a brilliant sharp Leica lens! But, the market is moving fast, the FZ 7 is already outdated and has several successors. But you should have a look to the Panasonic Lumix cameras, they are small (but not too small for big hands), fast, have good CCDs, many useful and reasonable features and the best (beside Carl Zeiss) lenses in the world.

Arkana

kmick wrote: »

You will spend the same on a 50mm prime as you will on the kit lens (give or take) and your results will be much better. You will not get decent sports shots with a kit zoom unless the light is great and you have a tripod. My two cents but when I bought my SLR with two kit zooms I found the results were atrocious and if I had bought the 50mm 1.8 for 150 euro I would have saved myself a lot of time.

Well, a 50mm lens is a nice basic lens, and, depending on the quality (which is different in different brands) you can take good landscape shots or see the whole sports area - but sport shots? If you want glorious sport shots you have to get shots as if you are 'near by' or 'in the battle'. That is, you need at least (!!) a 180/200mm or, better, a 300mm lens. Usually (there are exceptions) the bigger the basic aperture, the better.

I don't know, what camera body you have - but Leica put out a new AFD 300mm lens: http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/gear/op-news-and-announcements/panasonic-and-leica-announce-first-leica-d-lens-with-300mm-range.html
It fits on the new (not so expensive than Leica cameras!) Panasonic Lumix Professional DSLRs.

Arkana

eddiem74 wrote: »

Okay, so can you advise on some shops in Dublin to pay a visit too which would have what I am potientially looking for ?
I know there is a camera shop in the Blanch Shopping Center, but not sure where the good ones are?
Thanks again.

Well, in BSC are several 'camera shops', but only one that is dealing with professional cameras as well, that is CAMERA at the lower floor, beside the bookshop. It is the first branch of the 'mother shop' in Grafton Street. If you want to have good sales advice, my recommendation is - go to that shop in Grafton Street. Staff there is far better informed and - that's my impression - does listen better to your needs, whether you are a professional or a 'newbie'.

Well, I have worked in the past in Germany as a professional photographer and probably will start in the near future an own business again. If your budget is around 500 Euro, I recommend 'bridge-cameras', that are cameras 'in between', neither compact nor dslr, but something in between. Up to last year I worked with the Fuji Finepix 5000 (beside my other ten cameras), a fine camera of this kind but I experienced the same problem as you - AF much too slow. for kiddies, animals and sports photographies not suitable. I sold the camera to a good friend (who is happy with that, by the way!) and replaced it by a Panasonic FZ7, much faster AF, better CCD and - the best - a brilliant sharp Leica lens! But, the market is moving fast, the FZ 7 is already outdated and has several successors. But you should have a look to the Panasonic Lumix cameras, they are small (but not too small for big hands), fast, have good CCDs, many useful and reasonable features and the best (beside Carl Zeiss) lenses in the world.