National M50 Toll Boycott Day

Sizzler

Folks,

There has been plenty of talk on the M50 BFT thread about the general mess up to date and if boards user experiences is anything to go by this whole thing has been far from a success and brought little benefit to M50 users.

A few facts -

-The bridge has been paid for countless times.
-Road tax is for roads, yet the Irish motorist is still paying for this road.
-The road despite the toll is still a mess and routinely congests.
-The BFT does not work.
-Its NOT customer friendly.
-Motorists are being asked to pay up to 50% more for the same service then they were 6 weeks ago, for what exactly

Its plain to see that this whole thing is designed to make more money and shaft the motorist because we appear to be easy pickings.

So,cutting to the chase.

Why not have a campaign for a national don't pay the toll day. If you have a tag, put it in your glovebox, if you were planning on using it, don't bother paying.

Why are we rolling over on this one? From everything reported to date it would appear the system could in no way sustain dealing with one days worth of traffic who don't pay. If this proves to be a success perhaps the Irish motorist might actually grow some more balls and the campaign could last longer than a day....

If theres a burning issue for haulage companies you can be sure those truck driver boys will kick off, car drivers should be an evenmore powerful voice and we should not underestimate what can be done here.....

Anybody?

Mr. Presentable

The M50 is in Dublin. Why "national"?

And really, if you object to the toll, go around!

colm_mcm

This is nearly as bad as the "don't buy your petrol on a Tuesday" nonsense. If you don't want to pay the toll, then don't use that road.

Hagar

nipplenuts wrote: »

The M50 is in Dublin. Why "national"?

Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945 wrote:

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

That's why it's a national issue.

Mr. Presentable

Now I know why you are mod of Humour :pac:

colm_mcm

I suspect that support for this day down the country will be very strong,
I predict the millions of people who aren't in Dublin will not use the M50 on that day.

AlanD

I live in Limerick and will not use the M50 on that day. :P

But really, your viewpoint is a little naive. Road tax has never and will never be ring fenced for just roads. It pays for a whole range of public services. And what are you paying more for now? well, you are paying for barrier free tolling, an M50 upgrade which is still not complete and many other things you don't hear or see. The money paid so far to NTR was to a private company and so they coined it literally. Nothing can be done about that. It was a contract and it had to be honoured and bought out. So would you want a free M50? I don't think so. The government still needs money and tolling is one way of getting it. If anyone against tolling ever became a TD and ever got in to government, you would soon understand the reality of running a country and the decisions you would have to make would be similar to those made by today's government. It's the way the world works.

My advice? pay your toll or avoid the road.

AlanD

If on the other hand you truely want to do something, then go to your local TD's clinic and talk to him about the situation. It is your way of communicating with the government and can be effective if you case is strong enough.

Asking people to take on fines by not paying the toll is like throwing your dummy out of the cot. There are more effective ways to achieve what you want to achieve in my opinion.

Guy:Incognito

AlanD wrote: »

I Road tax has never and will never be ring fenced for just roads. It pays for a whole range of public services. .

Which is why they called it Motor tax and not road tax so the naive wouldnt get confused.:)


As for the OP, is it that time of the month again?

I assume this is being circulated through email, thats how all the most successful boycotts work.:)



The worlds biggest serial moaners , the French have a massive network of toll roads that they seem reasonably happy with.

Sizzler

colm_mcm wrote: »

This is nearly as bad as the "don't buy your petrol on a Tuesday" nonsense. If you don't want to pay the toll, then don't use that road.

Equally if you think the idea is such nonsense, don't bother posting.

Guy:Incognito

Sizzler wrote: »

Equally if you think the idea is such nonsense, don't bother posting.

Maybe the memo where only posts in support of an idea are allowed didnt get as far as Colm? Has that been passed in to law yet?

Sizzler

Stekelly wrote: »

I assume this is being circulated through email, thats how all the most successful boycotts work.:)

Nope, I was planning on knocking on doors :rolleyes:

Seriously though, the sentiment I had read on here and from people I know who use the road are certainly not in favour of the current regime.

The response so far seems defeatist and sort of proved my point, we are happy enough to roll over

Guy:Incognito

Sizzler wrote: »

Nope, I was planning on knocking on doors :rolleyes:

Seriously though, the sentiment I had read on here and from people I know who use the road are certainly not in favour of the current regime.

The response so far seems defeatist and sort of proved my point, we are happy enough to roll over

Realism does not equal defeatism.

Sizzler

Stekelly wrote: »

Maybe the memo where only posts in support of an idea are allowed didnt get as far as Colm? Has that been passed in to law yet?

*Checks forum rules*

mikemac

Sizzler wrote: »

The response so far seems defeatist and sort of proved my point, we are happy enough to roll over

It's free for motorbikes :cool:
East Link is too

Sizzler wrote: »

-Road tax is for roads, yet the Irish motorist is still paying for this road.

How many more times, nobody pays road tax and the motor tax that you do pay is spent on many departments, not just roads

Sizzler

micmclo wrote: »

How many more times, nobody pays road tax and the motor tax that you do pay is spent on many departments, not just roads

% Split?

Hagar

Stekelly wrote: »

The worlds biggest serial moaners , the French have a massive network of toll roads that they seem reasonably happy with.

That's because there's a network of national roads running more or less parallel to the peage that will take you from A to B toll-free. The policy in Ireland seems to be build a tolled Motorway with no alternative route. It certainly buggers up the unfortunates on Learner Permits.


Wait until more roads around the country are tolled like the Enfield Bypass but they're aren't enough votes locally to get it stopped. Perhaps some project in the Cork or Shannon area could be on the cards. I wouldn't put it past them to toll the Athlone bypass before too long.

Sizzler

Stekelly wrote: »

Realism does not equal defeatism.

Depends on your outlook

Lucifer

As far as I know, if you have a tag and put it in your glovebox, it will still charge your tag as it matches your tag account with your reg so you would still automatically pay. I would assume the majority of users using the bridge do so regularly so a huge amount will have tags so I dont see your idea working.

Sizzler

Lucifer wrote: »

As far as I know, if you have a tag and put it in your glovebox, it will still charge your tag as it matches your tag account with your reg so you would still automatically pay. I would assume the majority of users using the bridge do so regularly so a huge amount will have tags so I dont see your idea working.

That would work, if they were efficient

Heroditas

Sizzler wrote: »

-Motorists are being asked to pay up to 50% more for the same service then they were 6 weeks ago, for what exactly

They're being asked to pay up to €15 a year more .... please don't twist figures to suit an argument.

Sizzler

Heroditas wrote: »

They're being asked to pay up to €15 a year more .... please don't twist figures to suit an argument.

+ 1.

Now, I used the M50 on August 10th, cost €2. Now because I am in unregistered 'irregular' user, the fee is €3. Is not that 50% more

bazz26

Instead of using the bridge and not paying the toll as a protest, why not organise avoiding the tolled route altogether?

But I'm sure if people could find a more convenient toll free route they would be using it already. The reality of life is that there is always a price for convenience, tolling is just one of them.

Guy:Incognito

Hagar wrote: »

That's because there's a network of national roads running more or less parallel to the peage that will take you from A to B toll-free. The policy in Ireland seems to be build a tolled Motorway with no alternative route. It certainly buggers up the unfortunates on Learner Permits.

.

Theres plenty of alternatives to the M50 toll bridge, so many in fact that I only ever use it when I feel lazy and am heading all the way out to the airport.

Guy:Incognito

Sizzler wrote: »

+ 1.

Now, I used the M50 on August 10th, cost €2. Now because I am in unregistered 'irregular' user, the fee is €3. Is not that 50% more

Your choosing the most expensive way to use it.It's only 50% more expensive for those who want it to be.

Tipsy Mac

Why not instead get big numbers of people to head to Merrion Square and do laps in a convoy to symbolise our disgust.

Anan1

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Why not instead get big numbers of people to head to Merrion Square and do laps in a convoy to symbolise our disgust.

That'll make you popular.

Sizzler

Stekelly wrote: »

Your choosing the most expensive way to use it.It's only 50% more expensive for those who want it to be.

The fact remains it is 50% more expensive for those punters.

Not exactly fair imho.

Guy:Incognito

Sizzler wrote: »

The fact remains it is 50% more expensive for those punters.

Not exactly fair imho.

Are you for real? You are CHOOSING the most expensive option, the only one making it unfair is you.

If they offer a package where its €100 a go , thats also not unfair if thats the option you decide to go with.

faceman

What would it take for people to shout their protest?

There is possibly a BIK tax being introduced for motorists who avail of free parking at their workplace

Is that ok too?

A congestion charge in Dublin city centre which would no doubt spread to other cities.

Is that ok aswell?

While i dont normally have issue with toll roads where its expected that most heavy users would only be using the road occasionally (bar commercial traffic), i do have great issue with the west link and east link tolls in Dublin.

- The m50 was designed as a bypass for Dublin 30 years ago. Poor planning and corruption led to it being built decades later where it serves many as a conduit to travel to work etc rather than act as a "bypass to Dublin"

The toll was then outsourced to a private company who's main interest was to generate a profit as opposed to serve the needs to the public.

Many people in recent years have bought houses well outside the dublin perimeter yet still have to work in the city centre because there is feck all employment opportunities outside of the pale and the other major cities.

So while its easy to say just avoid the toll if you dont like it, tell that to the truck drivers, tell it to those who would add an extra hour on to their commute to work every day, Im sure they will see your logic.

Guy:Incognito

faceman wrote: »

So while its easy to say just avoid the toll if you dont like it, tell that to the truck drivers, tell it to those who would add an extra hour on to their commute to work every day, Im sure they will see your logic.

Has the toll not decreased for HGV's?

faceman wrote: »

A congestion charge in Dublin city centre which would no doubt spread to other cities.

.

Despite the fact that there is no congestion charge at present and afaik nothing concrete to say there will be, where is the evidence to say it will spread? Or are you just shoving that in for a bit of sensationalism?



It's all very easy for people to stand up and say they want this charge abolished or that price lowered, the reality is the country is in recetion, budget deficits are growing. What makes you think the government should or would lower it's income?

Whatever is done it certainly wont be just written off the exchequer, it'll be recouped elsewhere. It has to be.

The fact is , it's a choice to use it. Just like having a nice handy Spar on the corner that means you dont have to travel too far for a bottle of coke or a pint of milk, it costs more.

Fighting Irish

Sizzler wrote: »

Folks,

There has been plenty of talk on the M50 BFT thread about the general mess up to date and if boards user experiences is anything to go by this whole thing has been far from a success and brought little benefit to M50 users.

A few facts -

-The bridge has been paid for countless times.
-Road tax is for roads, yet the Irish motorist is still paying for this road.
-The road despite the toll is still a mess and routinely congests.
-The BFT does not work.
-Its NOT customer friendly.
-Motorists are being asked to pay up to 50% more for the same service then they were 6 weeks ago, for what exactly

Its plain to see that this whole thing is designed to make more money and shaft the motorist because we appear to be easy pickings.

So,cutting to the chase.

Why not have a campaign for a national don't pay the toll day. If you have a tag, put it in your glovebox, if you were planning on using it, don't bother paying.

Why are we rolling over on this one? From everything reported to date it would appear the system could in no way sustain dealing with one days worth of traffic who don't pay. If this proves to be a success perhaps the Irish motorist might actually grow some more balls and the campaign could last longer than a day....

If theres a burning issue for haulage companies you can be sure those truck driver boys will kick off, car drivers should be an evenmore powerful voice and we should not underestimate what can be done here.....

Anybody?

Good luck with that

Sizzler

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Good luck with that

LOL

Sizzler

Stekelly wrote: »

Are you for real? You are CHOOSING the most expensive option, the only one making it unfair is you.

If they offer a package where its €100 a go , thats also not unfair if thats the option you decide to go with.

I aint choosing fook all, I'm merely highlighting an unfairness in the way this has been repackaged for what is essentially the same service. As other posters have said there is no real viable alternative but you choose to keep defending it, which is grand, but as you said you avoid at all costs unless you are feeling lazy but not all road users have that luxury.

Anan1

faceman wrote: »

What would it take for people to shout their protest?

There is possibly a BIK tax being introduced for motorists who avail of free parking at their workplace

Is that ok too?

A congestion charge in Dublin city centre which would no doubt spread to other cities.

Is that ok aswell?

As it happens, i'm all in favour of both of those things.

Guy:Incognito

Sizzler wrote: »

I aint choosing fook all, .

Your choosing quite a lot.

Your choosing to use the toll bridge.

your choosing not to register.

Your choosing to pay the highest amount.

Sizzler wrote: »

As other posters have said there is no real viable alternative but you choose to keep defending it, which is grand, but as you said you avoid at all costs unless you are feeling lazy but not all road users have that luxury.

We are talking about the same road so all users do have the same luxury. I'm not using a helicopter to avoid it, I just drive alternative roads.

Getting up at a time that means the only way you can get to work on time is by going through the toll does not mean there arent alternatives, it means you dont want to get up early enough to use them.

Everyone cant have it their own way.

NiSmO

This post has been deleted.

Hagar

There's a certain irony on posters from outside Dublin not wanting to get involved when it is them as "occasional unregistered users" who will actually bear the brunt of the skewed payment system and pay the most for each use of the toll road.


In France you don't have to register to use a toll road, there are specially reserved lanes for people with the "electronic bleeper/tag" which saves a huge amount of queueing time. There are lanes with coin baskets, there are lanes that take bank cards, no pin required and lastly there are lanes with human operators who will accept notes.

When the studies for that toll bridge was being done did nobody look at the lessons learned elsewhere? The most obvious one is that there must be many more toll booths than there are lanes of traffic. A typical 3 lane motorway has at least 12 to 16 Toll booths. Some really busy routes have 28/30 booths.

More booths = less delays duh...

Tipsy Mac

faceman wrote: »

There is possibly a BIK tax being introduced for motorists who avail of free parking at their workplace.

This will never ever happen as those civil servants who make the law wont do without their free parking spaces.

faceman

Stekelly wrote: »

Has the toll not decreased for HGV's?

Despite the fact that there is no congestion charge at present and afaik nothing concrete to say there will be, where is the evidence to say it will spread? Or are you just shoving that in for a bit of sensationalism?

Clearly you are a dub my friend! (i presume!) Cork, galway, limerick have atrocious traffic problems too and congestion charges were mentioned in the past.

wrote:

It's all very easy for people to stand up and say they want this charge abolished or that price lowered, the reality is the country is in recetion, budget deficits are growing. What makes you think the government should or would lower it's income?

The fact is , it's a choice to use it. Just like having a nice handy Spar on the corner that means you dont have to travel too far for a bottle of coke or a pint of milk, it costs more.

Anan1 wrote: »

As it happens, i'm all in favour of both of those things.

Unfortunately on a topic like this, people who have the luxury of not needing their own private motorised transport to commute to their place of work, dont feel the pain that car drivers for example do, therefore dont need to look at the issue subject objectively.

And for the record, i primarily ride a motorbike so tolls, parking charges etc are not relevent to me!

Anan1

faceman wrote: »

Unfortunately on a topic like this, people who have the luxury of not needing their own private motorised transport to commute to their place of work, dont feel the pain that car drivers for example do, therefore dont need to look at the issue subject objectively.

More likely the pain stops them from seeing things objectively.

Guy:Incognito

faceman wrote: »

Unfortunately on a topic like this, people who have the luxury of not needing their own private motorised transport to commute to their place of work, dont feel the pain that car drivers for example do, therefore dont need to look at the issue subject objectively.
!

Unfortunately on tipics like this people make lots of unfounded presumtions. I need my car every day to get my tools to and from work (my own private car, nothign paid for by the job) and between jobs.Including lots of city centre work.

Heroditas

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

This will never ever happen as those civil servants who make the law wont do without their free parking spaces.

It also can't be policed/administered unless the spots are individually designated/reserved. If the spots are on a first come, first served basis, BIK can't be applied.

However, as you said, it would mainly affect civil servants ... oh and the TDs who voted to turn the Dáil lawn into a tarmac paradise a few years ago, so they could park their cars outside. :rolleyes:

Hagar

Heroditas wrote: »

It also can't be policed/administered unless the spots are individually designated/reserved. If the spots are on a first come, first served basis, BIK can't be applied.

Not even if there is a space for everybody? It's a nice little loophole.

faceman

Stekelly wrote: »

Unfortunately on tipics like this people make lots of unfounded presumtions. I need my car every day to get my tools to and from work (my own private car, nothign paid for by the job) and between jobs.Including lots of city centre work.

So what exactly is your point of view on the issue then?