Should people queue in the bus lane?

highdef

OK, there is a thread on the motors forum that started about a Gatso van on the M1 but which seems to have turned into a discussion with wildy varying opinions on whether it is ok to queue in the bus lane. So what do you think?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055387797

Wishbone Ash

highdef wrote: »

opinions on whether it is ok to queue in the bus lane

I can't really see the benefit of seeking opinions as to whether something that is illegal is 'ok'.

If everyone here agrees that it is 'ok', that doesn't make it legal.

Stark

It is illegal. Although I have on occasion seen signs in locations telling people to queue in the bus lane. There's one on Amiens street northbound for example. The problem is people seem to think it's the thing to do everywhere and then start pulling into the bus lane about a kilometre before their turn to save a few seconds. Very frustrating when you have to turn left ahead yourself.

highdef

I'm just curious to see what people's thoughts are. I know it's completely illegal and disrupts public transport but 1000's of people do it every day, in Dublin alone.

L1011

If I didn't do it, I'd never get home. Belgard Road to N7 Westbound.

Stark

highdef wrote: »

I'm just curious to see what people's thoughts are. I know it's completely illegal and disrupts public transport but 1000's of people do it every day, in Dublin alone.

1000s of people are selfish and ignorant. Fact (to borrow a phrase from a troll).

highdef

I know that bus lane well MYOB. It must be the most abused bus lane in Dublin. However, I'm not giving out. It's a terrible set-up and a huge amount of people from the Tallaght and surrounding areas (itself with the population of a small city) want to get onto the N7 from this road. Hopefully when the junction is sorted out, things will be better for you.

P.C.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I can't really see the benefit of seeking opinions as to whether something that is illegal is 'ok'.

If everyone here agrees that it is 'ok', that doesn't make it legal.

Yes, it is illegal.

MYOB wrote: »

If I didn't do it, I'd never get home. Belgard Road to N7 Westbound.

If you don't que in the bus lane here, either you will not be let in to turn left onto the N7, or you sit for hours, while everyone else goes past you in the bus lane??????
Can't wait for this junction to be upgraded.

L1011

P.C. wrote: »

If you don't que in the bus lane here, either you will not be let in to turn left onto the N7, or you sit for hours, while everyone else goes past you in the bus lane??????
Can't wait for this junction to be upgraded.

Precisely. Nobody will let you in at where the actual miniscule turn lane starts as they assume you were queue-jumping!

Zoney

The problem of course should not arise if we had proper bus lanes and adequate junctions for traffic.

With the current inadequate arrangements, it is a mess. If people were proper and did not queue in the bus lane, the consequence would be the holding up of the main traffic flow with people turning left. Of course this does still sometimes happen because some people follow the rules and end up waiting to be let in to the left-turn lane proper.

There should be far fewer situations *requiring* queues for turning left though - we don't have half enough left-turn filters at traffic light controlled junctions.

Colm R

Zoney wrote: »

The problem of course should not arise if we had proper bus lanes and adequate junctions for traffic.

With the current inadequate arrangements, it is a mess. If people were proper and did not queue in the bus lane, the consequence would be the holding up of the main traffic flow with people turning left. Of course this does still sometimes happen because some people follow the rules and end up waiting to be let in to the left-turn lane proper.

There should be far fewer situations *requiring* queues for turning left though - we don't have half enough left-turn filters at traffic light controlled junctions.

Interesting topic.

I always thought a simple solotion to this is to where possible put kerbing in to seperate bus and traffic lane along the last 50 meters of the bus lane before it becomes a left filter lane. Therefore it forces the traffic wishing to turn left to wait until the start of the left filter lane proper.

Yes, more headaches for drivers, but its a simple small measure to get buses moving faster and make them more attractive to use.

Colm R

Colm R wrote: »

Interesting topic.

I always thought a simple solotion to this is to where possible put kerbing in to seperate bus and traffic lane along the last 50 meters of the bus lane before it becomes a left filter lane. Therefore it forces the traffic wishing to turn left to wait until the start of the left filter lane proper.

Yes, more headaches for drivers, but its a simple small measure to get buses moving faster and make them more attractive to use.

I think that most roads are just too narrow for those kerbs, unless you have a guided bus system (even more expensive).

Heroditas

MYOB wrote: »

Precisely. Nobody will let you in at where the actual miniscule turn lane starts as they assume you were queue-jumping!

If they had a shaggin' flashing amber arrow at this junction to join the THREE LANE carriageway then the need to queue in the bus lane would be alleviated. God forbid they'd ever use some common sense.

L1011

Heroditas wrote: »

If they had a shaggin' flashing amber arrow at this junction to join the THREE LANE carriageway then the need to queue in the bus lane would be alleviated. God forbid they'd ever use some common sense.

Using the 200-300m long merge lane that appears to be provided for that purpose, too...

markpb

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that most roads are just too narrow for those kerbs, unless you have a guided bus system (even more expensive).

The "kerbs" need only be flappy reflective road signs, like the kind used to separate the O'Connell St southbound "cycle lane" or the lanes on Stephens Green. Almost zero width, very cheap to install and still allow flexibility if something happens.

HonalD

Heroditas wrote: »

If they had a shaggin' flashing amber arrow at this junction to join the THREE LANE carriageway then the need to queue in the bus lane would be alleviated. God forbid they'd ever use some common sense.

Traffic u-turns from the Naas direction so a flashing amber arrow wouldn't be a sensible thing from a safety point of view. People would just put their head down and go.....

Anyway, flashing amber arrows were "invented" in Ireland for pedestrian crossings at seperately signalled left turn lanes (like at Newlands Cross) to act as quasi-zebra crossings but are commonly understood by the general public to mean drivers have right of way

HonalD

Heroditas wrote: »

If they had a shaggin' flashing amber arrow at this junction to join the THREE LANE carriageway then the need to queue in the bus lane would be alleviated. God forbid they'd ever use some common sense.

A longer left turn lane and more buses using the route would help though!

L1011

HonalD wrote: »

Traffic u-turns from the Naas direction so a flashing amber arrow wouldn't be a sensible thing from a safety point of view. People would just put their head down and go.....

Its a three lane road with an additional completely futile merge lane as it is - U turning traffic usually comes in to the outermost lane to avoid interfacing with any Belgard->N7 traffic (as the sequences allow both at the same time). Can't see this being a major problem.

gibo_ie

i know it is illegal but i will queue in the us lane every time if necessary. Why block the straight ahead lane when you could safely move aside and let the traffic move.
Even if you do wait out of the bus lane you will still block it as you move acroos, so now you are bocking both bus lane and straight ahead lane.

Numerous examples, like N4 inbound at con colbert road, N$ inbound at M50 junction, many junctions on quays. Makes more sense to me than not using them.

markpb

gibo_ie wrote: »

i know it is illegal but i will queue in the us lane every time if necessary. Why block the straight ahead lane when you could safely move aside and let the traffic move.

Alternatively, why block a small number of people when you can potentially block hundreds? This morning several people queued in the bus lane at Malahide / Collins and blocked six completely full buses. Each bus had about 100 people on it. For the sake of waiting in lane for an extra few seconds, they held up 600 people.

Stark

gibo_ie wrote: »

Numerous examples, like N4 inbound at con colbert road, N$ inbound at M50 junction, many junctions on quays. Makes more sense to me than not using them.

Which N inbound? I notice plenty of people block the bus lane on the N3 to M50 inbound and there's absolutely no reason for them to do so. Even if the mainline is only moving at 5km/hr less than what they want, they'll use the bus lane to save themselves those few seconds.

L1011

HonalD wrote: »

Traffic u-turns from the Naas direction so a flashing amber arrow wouldn't be a sensible thing from a safety point of view. People would just put their head down and go.....

When queuing this morning I thought of this again. The only time traffic can U-turn is when the current sequence gives a green light to left turining traffic anyway!

tricky D

Zoney wrote: »

With the current inadequate arrangements, it is a mess. If people were proper and did not queue in the bus lane, the consequence would be the holding up of the main traffic flow with people turning left. Of course this does still sometimes happen because some people follow the rules and end up waiting to be let in to the left-turn lane proper.

Sounds exactly like Burgh Quay left onto D'Olier St.

Tarabuses

Am I imagining it or have the Gardai given up policing bus lanes entirely? It's a long time since I've seen any monitoring of illegal use other than by the odd motorcycle cop who happens to be passing and catches someone red handed.

Zoney

HonalD wrote: »

Anyway, flashing amber arrows were "invented" in Ireland for pedestrian crossings at seperately signalled left turn lanes (like at Newlands Cross) to act as quasi-zebra crossings but are commonly understood by the general public to mean drivers have right of way

Actually they do not exist to tell driver to give way to pedestrians (who have a red man signal and the usual crossing sequence) but rather to give way to other motor vehicles on the thoroughfare that they are turning onto.

In the UK the same is acheived with a green arrow rather than flashing amber, with Give Way signs just after the crossing. However, the problem is that the green arrow is a bit misleading (drivers may not realise they don't have right of way, despite the give way signs - green usually just means "GO").

Some such junctions here in Ireland do have Yield signs after the crossing, and indeed they probably all should have despite the amber arrow supposedly communicating the same message.

bazzer

Tarabuses wrote: »

Am I imagining it or have the Gardai given up policing bus lanes entirely? It's a long time since I've seen any monitoring of illegal use other than by the odd motorcycle cop who happens to be passing and catches someone red handed.

Wait until Operation Freeflow comes into operation. Guards on duty at The Bell pub junction in Blanchardstown Village actually usher cars INTO the bus lane. At all other times, this has to be one of the most abused bus lanes in the city.

Quint

From what I can work out from watching other motorists, it's completely legal to drive down a bus lane as long as your left indicator is on

Stark

bazzer wrote: »

Wait until Operation Freeflow comes into operation. Guards on duty at The Bell pub junction in Blanchardstown Village actually usher cars INTO the bus lane. At all other times, this has to be one of the most abused bus lanes in the city.

That coming towards the roundabout? Most of those cars aren't even going left (or into the gym) like they should either, they go onto the M50 even though all the signs and lane markings tell them not to.

BostonB

bazzer wrote: »

Wait until Operation Freeflow comes into operation. Guards on duty at The Bell pub junction in Blanchardstown Village actually usher cars INTO the bus lane. At all other times, this has to be one of the most abused bus lanes in the city.

The one in nearby Laurel Lodge is queued in daily, everyone ignores that its a bus lane completely. Mind you the whole place is just jammed solid, the buses aren't going anywhere because they have to pass through the same single lane as the cars through castleknock anyway.

Breezer

BostonB wrote: »

Mind you the whole place is just jammed solid, the buses aren't going anywhere because they have to pass through the same single lane as the cars through castleknock anyway.

I Christened Castleknock/Blanchardstown "the land of neverending traffic" a long time ago. I'm sure there could be a snazzier name but it describes the area pretty well. The whole place is crazy at the best of times, and after my experience last year I don't think I'll be driving within 5 miles of the Blanchardstown Centre for a month either side of Christmas this year.

Regarding bus lanes, I don't queue in them normally, the one exception being the N11 inbound offramp at UCD. If you don't go into the bus lane, you'll end up blocking the traffic turning right over the flyover for several turns of the lights, because everyone else goes into the bus lane and no one (maybe the occasional bus) pays a blind bit of heed to Johnny Good Driver sitting there with his indicator on trying to pull in at the correct point. I've never seen a Guard on it though, I'm hoping they've more sense.

BostonB

I usually stay out of bus lanes. I'll just get caught. Though I know some who use them daily, for years and even though they've been stopped they've never been as much as fined.

Some junctions the taxis and buses race up the bus lane and you can't see them coming, if its a bend for example, and darting into the buslane where you legally meant to, is very dangerous.