Will our immigration industry take a haircut?

cabinteelytom

On Sunday the cabinet met all day to plan an extra 700 million euro spending cut, on top of the 1.3 billion they had already planned. Is there any fat on the land?Are their any sacred cows? I tried to add up what the immigration industry is costing the Irish taxpayer-you know those sad little ordinary people who pay their way.
Equality Ireland spent 2.05M
(awarding 461G of euro to 307 individuals in 2007)
Interpreters (Gardai) 3.0 M
Interpreters (HSE) .75 M
State benefits to non-resident children 15. M
Integrate Ireland language and Training (no costs figures, but 9 admin staff, 7 on board of directors, 59 teachers, for 906 learners in 2007)
estimate .3 M
Refugee Documentation Centre (part of the Legal Aid Board; no separate costing)
Refugee Legal Services (part of legal aid board; is costed) 7.7M
(paid in 2006 to provide legal aid to 2,980 persons bringing actions against the Irish State)
Courts Service (an unclear proportion of either 92M or 131M; a guide would be that refugee legal services take up about 1/4 of the Legal Aid budget)
Office of the Refugee Application Commissioner 3.9 M
(1.459 M of that for 'translation')

Sub Total 32.7 M

The Immigrant Council of Ireland ...produces many reports but I could not find any statement of it's source of funds. Likewise I could find no figures for the public money given to
The Reception and Integration Agency
The Migrant Rights Centre and
The Refugee Information Service

Michael Hennigan in finfacts.ie today observes that Irish Government expenditure is opaque. This I can confirm but it is clear that we are talking about a very large constituency of articulate legal minded people drawing salaries, paying mortgages, anticipating pensions. Will this industry take a haircut in the 'severe' and 'very painful' cuts Minister O'Dea predicted at the weekend? We shall see.

lostexpectation

why don't you ask ff

Kama

Numbers would be a lot more meaningful if compared to anything showing the economic benefits of immigration, btw...;)

djpbarry

cabinteelytom wrote: »

Equality Ireland spent 2.05M
(awarding 461G of euro to 307 individuals in 2007)

Not directly related to immigration.

cabinteelytom wrote: »

Interpreters (Gardai) 3.0 M
Interpreters (HSE) .75 M

How much of that is spent translating documents into Irish?

cabinteelytom wrote: »

State benefits to non-resident children 15. M

The parents of whom are presumably working in this country and paying tax/PRSI to offset this cost.

cabinteelytom wrote: »

Integrate Ireland language and Training (no costs figures, but 9 admin staff, 7 on board of directors, 59 teachers, for 906 learners in 2007)
estimate .3 M

€300k? That's nothing; there are individuals in this country with personal debt far in excess of that figure.

cabinteelytom wrote: »

Refugee Documentation Centre (part of the Legal Aid Board; no separate costing)
Refugee Legal Services (part of legal aid board; is costed) 7.7M
(paid in 2006 to provide legal aid to 2,980 persons bringing actions against the Irish State)
Courts Service (an unclear proportion of either 92M or 131M; a guide would be that refugee legal services take up about 1/4 of the Legal Aid budget)
Office of the Refugee Application Commissioner 3.9 M
(1.459 M of that for 'translation')

Asylum Seeker ≠ Refugee ≠ Immigrant.

Time Magazine

The first thing that should be cut is the €19.10 weekly allowance to asylum seekers. Bloody disgraceful waste of taxpayers' money.

djpbarry

David McWilliams wrote: »

The first thing that should be cut is the €19.10 weekly allowance to asylum seekers.

Provided they are allowed to work.

chanianaus

What about an average of €8000.00 + €500.00 (Immigration fees) per year they charge from non EU students €2000.00 + €500.00 + tax from non EU workers.

As said already in post u cant put asylum seekers, students, Workers in same category.

Fratton Fred

piss all money compared to the €1bn per year that FAS costs us.

Mr.Micro

Its all pocket change with regard to bailing out the banks, the plan that was put forward yeterday and being debated today in the Dail. The greedy banks and related financial bodies come first so that they can continue to their irresponsible lending work with their big salaries and keep their jobs despite revealing their vast liabilities. The tax payer foots the bill. Well done FF. Money could be found to fund the banks but nothing for the health service or schools, yet we are in for a very severe budget in december. The irony and hypocrisy kills me.

the_syco

djpbarry wrote: »

Provided they are allowed to work.

For less than the Irish, without any unions or contract...

=-=

When we went into recession last time, how was the dole handled? There were only 17 or so asylum applications a year back then, so one would wonder how many would be around if we go under this time round?

Fratton Fred

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Its all pocket change with regard to bailing out the banks, the plan that was put forward yeterday and being debated today in the Dail. The greedy banks and related financial bodies come first so that they can continue to their irresponsible lending work with their big salaries and keep their jobs despite revealing their vast liabilities. The tax payer foots the bill. Well done FF. Money could be found to fund the banks but nothing for the health service or schools, yet we are in for a very severe budget in december. The irony and hypocrisy kills me.

My understanding is that no money has changed hands. The gov is not bailing them out, it is giving them a safety net to try and bring some confidence to the market.

If they have to bail them all out then we are all in the ****, because ireland doesn't have the money required.

panda100

cabinteelytom wrote: »

On Sunday the cabinet met all day to plan an extra 700 million euro spending cut, on top of the 1.3 billion they had already planned. Is there any fat on the land?Are their any sacred cows? I tried to add up what the immigration industry is costing the Irish taxpayer-you know those sad little ordinary people who pay their way.
Equality Ireland spent 2.05M



.

Due to cutbacks all the equality and rights agencies are being merged into one,this includes the equality authority,disabilty rights,travellers groups,women groups and human rights group. These organisations that provide vital services to Irish people make up less that 4% of the annual Irish budget.
Dont be so ignorant by blaming immigrants on our economic collapse. Racism is so handy for capitalism in times of recession.

http://www.siptu.ie/equality/EqualityNews/Name,10382,en.html

djpbarry

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Its all pocket change with regard to bailing out the banks, the plan that was put forward yeterday and being debated today in the Dail. The greedy banks and related financial bodies come first so that they can continue to their irresponsible lending work with their big salaries and keep their jobs despite revealing their vast liabilities. The tax payer foots the bill.

Not exactly; if the Irish banking sector were to collapse, we'd all be ****ed. The government has moved to restore confidence by underwriting all the Irish banks with a theoretical figure, which seems to have had the desired effect. Rather than wait until a bank is in need of a bailout (as has happened in the US), the government has assured banks that a bailout will be forthcoming should they need it, which, by virtue of restored confidence in the sector, makes such an outcome less likely. In reality, the chances of a €400 billion payout, or anything close to it, are virtually zero. Besides, any payout will provide the government with a share-hold in the recipient institution.

the_syco wrote: »

For less than the Irish, without any unions or contract...

Hmm. I think anyone who works legally in this country has to earn at least the minimum wage, by law (I’m open to correction on that); besides, the more they earn, the more tax they pay and (presumably) the more they will spend. Unions; fair enough. But why no contract?

cabinteelytom

Must correct my own errors here, in the interests of clear-sighted thinking; in 2007 only 36% of the cases brought to the Equality Tribunal were for 'race discrimination' ; change 2.05 to 0.7M euro.
Well this might turn out to be an iteritive process.

sovtek

chanianaus wrote: »

What about an average of €8000.00 + €500.00 (Immigration fees) per year they charge from non EU students €2000.00 + €500.00 + tax from non EU workers.

As said already in post u cant put asylum seekers, students, Workers in same category.

Even if you put in Asylum seekers...us working immigrants pay for it with our €100 per annum immigration tax in the form of the GNIB card. That's also not counting the billions we immigrants pay in tax and yet can't fully partake of government social programs such as the dole nor can we vote the people out that constantly deride and harrass us.
Any Irish person that complains about immigrants is a hypocrit!!!!

sovtek

djpbarry wrote: »

Hmm. I think anyone who works legally in this country has to earn at least the minimum wage, by law (I’m open to correction on that); besides, the more they earn, the more tax they pay and (presumably) the more they will spend. Unions; fair enough. But why no contract?

Yes they have to make minimum wage and the suggestion that migrant workers should enjoy less protection from unions or labour laws is beyond idiotic.

djpbarry

sovtek wrote: »

...the suggestion that migrant workers should enjoy less protection from unions or labour laws is beyond idiotic.

We were actually talking about asylum seekers, as the OP had lumped them in with immigrants.

dante18

djpbarry wrote:

We were actually talking about asylum seekers, as the OP had lumped them in with immigrants.

Asylum seekers are immigrants. Look up the definition of the word in the dictionary. An immigrant is someone who moves to another country with the aim of seeking residence in that country. By that definition, an asylum seeker is an immigrant.

djpbarry

dante18 wrote: »

Asylum seekers are immigrants.

Legally they are not.

sovtek

djpbarry wrote: »

We were actually talking about asylum seekers, as the OP had lumped them in with immigrants.

Even so...

Mr.Micro

Not exactly; if the Irish banking sector were to collapse, we'd all be ****ed. The government has moved to restore confidence by underwriting all the Irish banks with a theoretical figure, which seems to have had the desired effect. Rather than wait until a bank is in need of a bailout (as has happened in the US), the government has assured banks that a bailout will be forthcoming should they need it, which, by virtue of restored confidence in the sector, makes such an outcome less likely. In reality, the chances of a €400 billion payout, or anything close to it, are virtually zero. Besides, any payout will provide the government with a share-hold in the recipient institution.

Sorry to disagree with you djpbarry but IMO it is not as simple as that. How honest have the banks been with the Government with regards to how much liability they have on their books or what other parties the banks are involved with? Its like going to get a life insurance policy and not having a medical or telling the insurer all the facts, in real life we know that would never happen. What were the financial regulator and the central bank doing uo to now??? ASLEEP or turning a blnd eye. Now the Government is going to allow all these executives keep their jobs and carry on as usual and today we learn we will have to borrow 10 billion until next year. New and unchartered waters and the banks must be falling about laughing at the deal they got and the bonuses all underwritten by the taxpayer. What a great year for the banks.

cabinteelytom

Will these costs for translation services bear scrutiny? 5.2 M euro for just three agencies (Gardai,HSE, ORAC).
The 2006 census found a non-Irish population of 419,000 but 135,000 came from places where English is the language of the country. That leaves 284,000. English is the most widely taught second language in the world, and is the language of instruction in many non-English speaking countries' higher education institutions.That is, the elite of many countries already know English.
How are we to understand this paradox? In 2006 only 906 individuals from the 284,000 thought their english was so poor that they should attend free [to them, not me] classes provided by Integrate Ireland Language and Training (with a teacher;learner ratio of 1 to 15), but in the same year three Government agencies spent 5.2 M euro providing translation services?
Assuming the translators (very few of whom are native English speakers) are prepared to take a financial hit, to order subsidise their adopted country, and charge only 20 Euro per hour; that's 260,000 hours. An awful lot of hot air.

GuanYin

cabinteelytom, you have been told more than once that there is a difference between immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers.

If you don't know the difference, you should inform yourself before posting.

However, at this stage, I can only assume you're purposely muddying the waters.

The next time you post confusing the terms, you will be banned.