No love for old school gameplay?

Retr0gamer

Was reading the comments in the megaman 9 eurogamer review and I'm shocked and appalled at what I was reading. Here are some quotes:

Some **** needs to stay in the past. Including this.

I just can't understand why I would want to buy this after playing the demo. There are so many good games out right now, download and retail, what is the point?

I tried the PS3 demo of this and to be honest I'd have had more fun if I'd just mashed the controller into my nuts instead.

It's everything that was bad about retro gaming with very little of the good stuff. Instant deaths that you have to experience whilst you memorise the attacks, restarting from way back, crappy graphics just because they want it to look old (I love 2D art but when you deliberately make something blocky you had better have a great art style, this doesn't) and more evilness that my brain must have blanked out for me.

When I deleted it I hit the button extra hard in the hope it would delete it hard enough to remove every trace.

Get one of the old retro collections instead, they are often around this price and there's guaranteed to be at least 5 games in the collection that **** on this from a great height.

I tried this game last night and absolutely hated it. It's old-school level design which forces you learn where enemies are rather than relying on subtle signposting instantly put me off. It's just a horrible, horrible game IMO.

There's actually quite a lot of this, more than there is of people praising the game.

The game was scored 8/10 by Dan Whitehead who I usually don't agree with when it comes to his reviews but in this case I would. For me Megaman 9 is one of the best games I've played all year. Even Little Big Planet with it's ingenious mix of platforming, physics playground and level editing comes close. Give me rock solid level design by the experts over levels by amateur hacks like myself

It's kind of sad to see the tastes of gamers changed so dramatically. If MM9 was released in the late 80's/ early 90's it would have been hailed a classic. It would probably have been criticised for being too easy as well (MM2 and MM3 are rock hard but back in the day they were considered quite easy and MM9 is on par with these in difficulty terms).

It's also a shame how people can be turned off a game by graphics alone. My brother commented only once on MM9 'I don't know what game that is but it looks shite'. This from some one who has been playing the excreable Need for Speed Pro Street. Got the same comment today while playing Earthbound, a gorgeous looking example of 2D that is actually laugh out loud funny.

I despair some times for the future generations of gamers that don't have the patience to play a game that quicksaves after each platform jump and get their challenge kicks from playing tripe like Halo 3 on legendary.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

and i'm sure your parents lament the fact that you spent your childhood staring at a computer screen instead of playing chess or Go or some other purer form of entertainment.

your brother will get his come uppance when he hits late 30's and all the teenagers are pissing themselves laughing at how ****e halo and NFS are.

o1s1n

Philistines. They're all just missing the level of skill required in playing such a game. Something the average 8 year old had 15 years ago.

Can't wait to play it myself. If I ask really really nicely do you reckon they'll release a special boxed edition on a Nes cart? No? Damn.

CiDeRmAn

Yeah, a special edition on Nes cart is in order!

The PS3 demo is lovely, classic gameplay in a game series that has gone a bit astray up to now.
In this day and sge, with the likes of Super Mario Bros and Bionic Commando getting successful updates why not do something similar for Megaman?

Anyhow nice one Capcom

appleidog

Now, it is a wierd mixture of people now when it comes to Retro, also the guy could of been brought up during the playstation one day's so wouldn't like the old retro style it is trying to concieve, personally i hate all megaman's apart from megaman maverick hunter, and still then it doesn't come close to the ulmighty Ghoul's N Ghost/

ShawnRaven

appleidog wrote: »

Now, it is a wierd mixture of people now when it comes to Retro, also the guy could of been brought up during the playstation one day's so wouldn't like the old retro style it is trying to concieve, personally i hate all megaman's apart from megaman maverick hunter, and still then it doesn't come close to the ulmighty Ghoul's N Ghost/

... which in turn, wasn't a patch on Ghosts N' Goblins!

Retr0gamer

Ghosts n' Goblins has aged very badly and is way too tough. Ghouls n' Ghosts on the other hand is a masterpiece.

o1s1n

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Ghouls n' Ghosts on the other hand is a masterpiece.

Still damn tough

CiDeRmAn

Not wrong there, Ghost and Goblins was the lesser of the 2, I remember getting the bugger on the Spectrum

o1s1n

So, how many of you folks have cleared a classic Megaman game?

We had Megaman 2 when it was released and I was fairly happy with myself when I finally managed to get through the whole thing.

Think the soundtrack was permanently burned into my brain forever though. Which then again, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Retr0gamer

I've beaten Megaman 1-6 from the anniversary collection. I honestly wouldn't have beaten Megaman 1 except the anniversary collection version saved after each boss. They really aren't that tough with Megaman 2 and 3 being the toughest other than bastard hard Megaman 1. Megaman 9 is probably as tough as Megaman 2 and 3. Haven't had the time yet to devote myself to beating wileys castle yet.

I remember getting through Megaman 2, it was a nightmare but some of the best gaming ever Wileys castle was horrible. Once I beat it though it was quite easy going back through the whole thing again on hard mode.

I also beat Megaman 3 on the old Gameboy. Brilliant game and for me it was the toughest megaman game of the lot. Skullman was really tough and Dustmans level and boss was horrible, took me weeks to beat. I'll have to go and play the GB ones because they are meant to be great especially Megaman which didn't remix bosses from previous games. They all offer something different from the main series. Pity Capcom lost the source code and couldn;t bring out the DS collection.

I stopped playing halfway through MM7. Don't know why, it just didn't feel right or was anywhere near as good. I also beat Megaman X 3 on the PC. Loved it but again didn't quite feel like megaman.

valleyoftheunos

I'd say for kids who's first experience of gaming was PS1 or later something like MM9 would seem very limited. If you only knew gaming as huge sandbox 3rd person games with HD graphics and interactive, reactionary environments, a game where you run to the right shooting and jumping at the appropriate points would probably seem a little bit bizarre.

So many games from earlier eras based an entire game around an idea or mechanic that wouldn't be enough for a small sub-game in current realeases.

duffhead1010

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

I'd say for kids who's first experience of gaming was PS1.

I'm one of those people, I like retro games but mm9 is s***e! :mad:
You go back to the start of the level everytime you die AND it's unbelievably tough, Imo it should be one or the other not both!
It's also pretty stupid, if you get hit in the back while in the air, you fall BACKWARDS!? into the hole you just cleared. A very, very stupid game.
Would they not just make a new MM game with good graphics and fix the stupid gameplay and faults? Then again I wouldn't buy it anyway because MM is the most over-rated Capcom character ever.
Rant over...:pac:

valleyoftheunos

duffhead1010 wrote: »

I'm one of those people, I like retro games but mm9 is s***e! :mad:
You go back to the start of the level everytime you die AND it's unbelievably tough, Imo it should be one or the other not both!
It's also pretty stupid, if you get hit in the back while in the air, you fall BACKWARDS!? into the hole you just cleared. A very, very stupid game.
Would they not just make a new MM game with good graphics and fix the stupid gameplay and faults? Then again I wouldn't buy it anyway because MM is the most over-rated Capcom character ever.
Rant over...:pac:

Sorry My friend but you just displayed your ignorance of true gaming there

thats what proper games are supposed to be like:p:p:p

duffhead1010

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Sorry My friend but you just displayed your ignorance of true gaming there

thats what proper games are supposed to be like:p:p:p

I thought they were ment to be fun, but that's just me.:P
MM is just pretty s*** Imo.

appleidog

you thought they were mean games were meant to be fun , hahahahah that is funny, but seriously though.

Megaman 9 is for true gamers, not none of this crap, nowadays save every to seconds what is that about?

the one thing i love about Ghoul's n ghosts is that is a challenge, and takes true skill, most people i know can't get though level 1. Now it is meant to be Retro megman 9,

duffhead1010

appleidog wrote: »

you thought they were mean games were meant to be fun , hahahahah that is funny, but seriously though.

Megaman 9 is for true gamers, not none of this crap, nowadays save every to seconds what is that about?

the one thing i love about Ghoul's n ghosts is that is a challenge, and takes true skill, most people i know can't get though level 1. Now it is meant to be Retro megman 9,

I meant games in general:rolleyes: Hard games are good but when you pass a really hard part, you shouldn't have to do it again 20 times. Do you get what I mean now, there are far better side-scrolling shooters than megaman anyway.:D

o1s1n

duffhead1010 wrote: »

Hard games are good but when you pass a really hard part, you shouldn't have to do it again 20 times.

But...you're missing the point of Megaman! That's what the game is!.

Sure, there are better side scrolling shooters. But Megaman is the epitome of the genre. With the difficulty cranked right up. It skilled platform gaming. Infuriating when you get it wrong. But when you get it just right, woah..what a buzz

Could just be what you were brought up on though as others have said. What was your first console?

duffhead1010

Ps1, pretty good but I mainly played n64 and ps2 after it.
I just really don't like mega man, what's the deal with not being able to jump or shoot up? I've always wanted to ask that.

appleidog

but where is the accomplishemnt in that, you should beat the said boss or level and be like i owned you level you got nothing on my mad skills, not oh my gosh i finished, wow that game was easy,

Retr0gamer

duffhead1010 wrote: »

You go back to the start of the level everytime you die AND it's unbelievably tough, Imo it should be one or the other not both!
It's also pretty stupid, if you get hit in the back while in the air, you fall BACKWARDS!? into the hole you just cleared. A very, very stupid game.

If you were any good you wouldn't be getting hit in the back while jumping over a gap. Megaman 9 can be beaten without taking any damage. If you fail it's because you are crap and didn't deserve to beat the level, back to the start with you.

It's also not that tough, megaman was considered too easy back in the day.

These games are all about mastering a level until you can beat it safely. MM9 can be beat in less than an hour so it needs challenge. It would be crap if you could just quick save through the whole game. anyway with these games if you know how to pass a tough part it's should be a doddle from then on to get past it. It's not like it remains just as tough.

These games are about challenging yourself instead of being gently taken by the hand through it.

Since you started on the PS1 genre you probably never played games like this before. They do take some getting used to you just have to have patience. It gets much easier after you beat your first boss. It took me about a week to beat my first megaman 2 boss but after that it got a lot easier.

appleidog

thats very true about retro games, there all about mastering, so you can ease though the levels with pure utter skill, like mario world, they are completly different games to some one that has mastered it to a kid just walking collecting coins. completely different.

bennyblanco

Hi all,sorry I havent read the previous posts but just in case nobody has mentioned it-
Bionic Commando FTW baby!
Was it on the NES or SNES I cant remember,what a class game:D

Retr0gamer

On the NES. It wouldn't say it was class, I'd say it was ****ing awesome! The remake Rearmed is just so good.

appleidog

nes

o1s1n

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Since you started on the PS1 genre you probably never played games like this before. They do take some getting used to you just have to have patience. It gets much easier after you beat your first boss. It took me about a week to beat my first megaman 2 boss but after that it got a lot easier.

I totally agree.

He's from the memory card generation. Which is going to lead to a different mentality towards games. People from ps1 on just assume saving is part of gaming.

My first two consoles had no save features at all. (Bar the odd megadrive game with a battery, but they aren't too common).

Every time you played a game, it would be from the beginning. Didn't even think twice about it.

duffhead1010

That's it and that's the game but I just don't like it, the games I grew up on were like,
"Wow, i just beat that really hard boss, now I can enjoy the rest of the game, before another hard part later on."

Yes i suck at mega man but it was my first time playing it.But it's not my kind of game. So I'll move on.

BLITZ_Molloy

I love hard arcade platformers but I've just never warmed to the series. The games are dull as dishwater aside from the music. Rock Man was never very popular outside of Japan in the first place so I wouldn't be surprised if Eurogamers audience aren't into it.

Personally I think (the majority) of games died with the memory card. Saving should only be for RPGs and other brainless genres I'm not interested in. But then I'm something of a crazed lunitic purist and lose interest in any game that doesn't cause me some stress. There are still games being made for the likes of me, but it's a shame that we don't live in an age where nearly every game is made for the likes of me.

Retr0gamer

duffhead1010 wrote: »

That's it and that's the game but I just don't like it, the games I grew up on were like,
"Wow, i just beat that really hard boss, now I can enjoy the rest of the game, before another hard part later on."

Yes i suck at mega man but it was my first time playing it.But it's not my kind of game. So I'll move on.

Bah! Whippersnappers! You have never beaten a hard boss, trust me. You probably thought the bosses in Metal Gear Solidand Ninja Gaiden were tough. Newsflash: they weren't. Go play Contra: Hard Corp. Now there are some really hard bosses!*

It's really just a different style of play that we have nowadays and you just aren't used to it. And to be honest it will take you a while to get used to it. Back then games had to be tough because they were so short. Kids back then were beating Battletoads and 1 crediting Ghould n' Ghosts and would have laughed at the challenge or lack thereof in todays games. You just got used to how tough games were and accepted that you had to invest a bit of time into them to get the skill to beat them

As I said Megaman 9 would have been considered easy back then

As 16mbit carts and, even more so, CD rom came about games just got so big that making them tough and long wasn't fair to a player. It really had to progress this way otherwise gamers would have gotten frustrated and give up on games. People who grew up with these games just aren't used to the challenge of older games and can't understand it or acclimatise.

*I'm being humourous not condescending

BLITZ_Molloy wrote:

The games are dull as dishwater aside from the music.

Now come on now, fair enough levelling that at the later games in the series but MM2 and MM3 were absolute classics with some wonderful level design.

valleyoftheunos

Saves? what saves? Back in the day you were lucky if you got a password at the end of a level. Super Mario World was the first game I played with a save function. Remeber playing through SMB 3 in one session? that was properly hardcore.

Gaming has changed, "defeat a boss and enjoy the next bit of a the game knowing you wont have to fight a boss for a while" WTF? fighting bosses was the reason you played through the level:p:p:p

MM2 and Super Ghouls and Ghosts are two of my favorite games of all time and I've never beaten either of them, never come close to Gn'G but I keep coming back because of the challenge and the achievement every time I get little bit further, haven't far left in MM2, just need to find the time and after I do that MM9 is right in there.

Of course the not liking MM9 is entirely a matter of opinion and down to yourself, its just that all the reasons you give for not liking it are the reasons that the rest of us cherish old school games.

appleidog

o1s1n wrote: »

I totally agree.

He's from the memory card generation. Which is going to lead to a different mentality towards games. People from ps1 on just assume saving is part of gaming.

My first two consoles had no save features at all. (Bar the odd megadrive game with a battery, but they aren't too common).

Every time you played a game, it would be from the beginning. Didn't even think twice about it.

im from the memory card Generation, Neo geo Generation that is mwhahahahaha. the best Memory cards there are.....

And with the retro games, you didnt need Trophies/achievements points, just finishing the games was like 2000000 points, especially Gng they should of gave you a medal for that game.

BLITZ_Molloy

I've developed a deep hatred of unlockables and achievements. It's just trying to create a fake sense of accomplishment in games that don't have any challenge.

A game should be played for its own sake, not for some bull**** tokens.

One issue I have with the saving function is the difficulty is damn near impossible to balance properly. If you get to a new level and can play on from that point indefinately (essentially infinite lives) then they have to make it much harder to compensate.

In a coin-op you had a finite number of lives, you reach a hard boss and get dumped back to the start of the game again to practice and hone your skills. In a modern action game you get to the boss, it saves and you have to play the boss over and over until you kill him on the 30th go. It's a stressful experience and accounts for why so many games get left gathering on the shelf nowadays when people get stuck. If they got sent back to an easier level at the start, it's intially dissapointing but it serves as a good pressure release so people don't go mad with frustration.

Jip

bennyblanco wrote: »

Hi all,sorry I havent read the previous posts but just in case nobody has mentioned it-
Bionic Commando FTW baby!
Was it on the NES or SNES I cant remember,what a class game:D

Pffft, NES :rolleyes: C64 was where that game was really at. Anything from NES onwards cannot be called Old School ! The various Atari consoles, Atari 600/800/ST, C64/Amiga, any of the Spectrums are all old school you young whipper snappers.

BLITZ_Molloy

Mneh, not everybody could afford a home computer. Or convince their parents it was educational.

I was lucky enough to start off with a C64, but when it broke my parents bought me an Atari 2600. This must have been in 1989 or so when it was getting seriously past its sell by date. Man, I really hated that piece of ****. Not an ounce of nostalgia for it. Thank god they got me a Mega Drive in 1991 or It might have put me off gaming for good.

Retr0gamer

Jip wrote: »

Pffft, NES :rolleyes: C64 was where that game was really at. Anything from NES onwards cannot be called Old School ! The various Atari consoles, Atari 600/800/ST, C64/Amiga, any of the Spectrums are all old school you young whipper snappers.

the C64 version was an okay port of a poor arcade game. The nes game took a totally different approach to the arcade game and made a much better game.

I too don't have much love for the C64. I had mine well past it's sell by date and was annoyed how few good games there were on it. There were a few classics but most of the games were dreadful compared to the professionally produced japanese games on the consoles.