Calzaghe

nacho libre

http://www.livefight.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=e8c88fa83b916c1d235d5c58fa9fec0b&topic=4467.0


no doubt Cowzerp you agree with everything he says;)

To be honest i don't think he would have beaten Benn in his prime. I definitely think a peak Benn would have knocked him out.
He would have been too slick for Collins and won easily on points.

dlofnep

Prime versus Prime, he would have beaten Benn. I think people get lost in Nostalgia alot. Benn was a very good fighter, but hardly invincible. Fact is, Calzaghe is a great fighter.

ODD-JOB

Bika was a close match for Calzaghe,..... there was really nothing between them..... apart from the fact that Saikio was much better to watch !!

cowzerp

Benn was ferocious at his best and would have stopped joe within 2-3 rounds, calzaghe would of been made for him.

Peak eubank easily beats him too as would watson, mclellan nunn or toney. edit, sorry i left out hopkins and jones jr too!

Calzaghe came along when all these where on there way out..and the division was as weak as its ever been.

i also would of picked collins to match his work rate and finish him in the later rounds..

jayroyal

cowzerp wrote: »

Benn was ferocious at his best and would have stopped joe within 2-3 rounds, calzaghe would of been made for him.

Peak eubank easily beats him too as would watson, mclellan nunn or toney. edit, sorry i left out hopkins and jones jr too!

Calzaghe came along when all these where on there way out..and the division was as weak as its ever been.

i also would of picked collins to match his work rate and finish him in the later rounds..

Well i'm gona say your wrong to all of them cause whoever you say will beat SUPER JOE never does FACT

nacho libre

cowzerp wrote: »

Benn was ferocious at his best and would have stopped joe within 2-3 rounds, calzaghe would of been made for him.

Peak eubank easily beats him too as would watson, mclellan nunn or toney. edit, sorry i left out hopkins and jones jr too!

Calzaghe came along when all these where on there way out..and the division was as weak as its ever been.

i also would of picked collins to match his work rate and finish him in the later rounds..

nah he would have been too busy and too quick for Collins. He wouldn't have able to knock Collins out though.

After seeing Calzaghe's performance against Hopkins i'm inclined to believe a prime Hopkins would have beaten him too. Calzaghe may have won the fight but that was more so due to Hopkins gazzing after the fifth round.
For the first half of their fight Hopkins definitely landed the cleaner punches.
He simply can't fight 12 rounds any more. With this mind the only way i see Hopkins beating Pavlik is if Pavlik struggles at the weight and Hopkins manages to knock him out as a result. Otherwise i fear Pavlik will ko a tired Hopkins in the seventh or eight round. I just can't see Bernard Hopkins going 12 rounds and outpointing Pavlik.

eagle eye

cowzerp wrote: »

Benn was ferocious at his best and would have stopped joe within 2-3 rounds

Thats just silly unprovable speculation which is clear unsupported by the facts, the guy is unbeaten and obviously it follows on that he has never been stopped.

Anyways this is the usual muck thread where some of you who don't like Calzaghe for whatever reason try to bait people. Other than what I said above I'm not involved.

walshb

Cal has the work rate to beat Benn; but the two things he doesn't have are the punch (not even going to hurt Benn) and the Chin (Benn's punching is not Hopkins or Bika or Reid 'like')

Cal's chin IMO was never ultimately tested by a real real KO artist; at least not in Benn's league

I can see Benn landing very clean and often and they will be shots that Cal has never experienced before.

Cal has been down, hurt and wobbled by punchers that aren't in Nigel's league.

Benn's intense pressure will result in an early win, peak-peak I mean!

If Cal had a steel chin and half decent punch, like Watson, he would beat Benn!

cowzerp

eagle eye wrote: »

Thats just silly unprovable speculation which is clear unsupported by the facts, the guy is unbeaten and obviously it follows on that he has never been stopped. .

All talk of fights that never took place is unprovable so thats just plain silly, Benn was a viscious ko artist who love toe to toe fight, joe could not stand with him, if you think he could then your deluded,

eagle eye wrote: »

Anyways this is the usual muck thread where some of you who don't like Calzaghe for whatever reason try to bait people. Other than what I said above I'm not involved.

I dont intend on baiting anyone into an argument, i say my opinion and you can disagree if you want, calzaghe has fought no 1 near peak that would compare to benn's or mclellan's power and aggression or Nunn's, Toney, RJJ or Hopkins peak skills.

i'll stick with my belief that joe fought in a weak division and never faced a decent peak opponent.

I still hope he faces someone of respectability before he retires to give him a chance to change this.

PS, Jayroyal, the only person i said would beat calzaghe on here was B Hop and as far as im concerned he lost that fight and i was right.

I'll also be backing a way past it RJJ so maybe you'll have 2 to use against me!

All the lads who stick up for joe never have any decent arguments as to why joe has faced nobody and just sqauwk on about his record..they pretend he's got good technique and faced good opposition and also that he's got power and a great chin, all laughable.

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

Cal has the work rate to beat Benn; but the two things he doesn't have are the punch (not even going to hurt Benn) and the Chin (Benn's punching is not Hopkins or Bika or Reid 'like')

Cal's chin IMO was never ultimately tested by a real real KO artist; at least not in Benn's league

I can see Benn landing very clean and often and they will be shots that Cal has never experienced before.

Cal has been down, hurt and wobbled by punchers that aren't in Nigel's league.

Benn's intense pressure will result in an early win, peak-peak I mean!

If Cal had a steel chin and half decent punch, like Watson, he would beat Benn!

Calzaghe doesn't have power now due to his hands of chalk. But in his prime he did, and quite a lot of it. He was known as a power puncher and rightfully so. I think at his best he certainly has enough power to deal with Benn, but what is very interesting is Calzaghe himself suffers from what I call Nigel Benn Syndrome. When hurt is when he becomes his most aggressive, infact it's once these guys get hurt that they start swinging for the fences.

Prime for prime I think it'd make an incredible fight and while I'd favour Calzaghe I don't think you can rule out Benn against almost any Middle/Super-Middle ever. He always has that punchers chance.

Cowzerp I think you also said Kessler would win. I'd bet you(like most) would of picked Lacy too but then again I can't be sure on that.

cowzerp

Big Ears wrote: »

Cowzerp I think you also said Kessler would win. I'd bet you(like most) would of picked Lacy too but then again I can't be sure on that.

Maybe i did! to lazy to check, anyway kessler had and still has great potential but is probably years off his best.

lacy i never rated and am bemused when i hear of him been talked about so much by calzaghe's camp...

Big Ears wrote: »

Calzaghe doesn't have power now due to his hands of chalk. But in his prime he did, and quite a lot of it. He was known as a power puncher and rightfully so. .

This is a myth Big ears, who did joe ever knock out, i mean actually ko?
and his fragile hands is not due to been so powerful! its due to landing with slaps and not with his knuckles.

Calzaghe stopped really poor opposition in the early days by raining down 20-30 slaps on his opponent while the ref allowed it, never did he drop anyone with 1 big punch.

You bring this up regularly but its just plain wrong, and your usually very good in your facts but not in this case!

nacho libre

Kessler is at or near his best now. He was just outclassed by Calzaghe.
It was a great achievement to beat Kessler because many of Calzaghe's critics thought Kessler would beat him easily. They revised their opinon on Kessler because Calzaghe made him look ordinary which of course shows his skill.
That said Kessler is of course not as good as a prime Roy Jones or Bernard Hopkins. Even if Calzaghe lost two either of them in their prime it wouldn't mean he was a bad fighter. Collins would probably have lost two both men. As would have Benn and Eubank. They all are great fighters. So is Calzaghe.

megadodge

never did he drop anyone with 1 big punch

Chris Eubank !

Twice !

Whose chin is infinitely better than Nigel Benn's !

megadodge

Benn was on queer street from one punch from Mauro Galvano.

Galvano's record shows 7KO's in FORTY fights !!!

Big Ears

cowzerp wrote: »

Maybe i did! to lazy to check, anyway kessler had and still has great potential but is probably years off his best.

lacy i never rated and am bemused when i hear of him been talked about so much by calzaghe's camp...



This is a myth Big ears, who did joe ever knock out, i mean actually ko?
and his fragile hands is not due to been so powerful! its due to landing with slaps and not with his knuckles.

Calzaghe stopped really poor opposition in the early days by raining down 20-30 slaps on his opponent while the ref allowed it, never did he drop anyone with 1 big punch.

You bring this up regularly but its just plain wrong, and your usually very good in your facts but not in this case!

I never thought Lacy was that great a fighter either, but I believed in his power and I believed he could take any Super-Middleweight(and possibly Light-Heavyweight) out with one shot. Before his serious shoulder injury and the pasting he got from Calzaghe he wasn't a bad fighter. The three men he's had close decisions over since his Calzaghe loss he would of stopped before the shoulder injury.

I never said his fragile hands was from anything but slapping, it most likely is. Either than or he just has bad hands.

You make it sound like every fight was like the Manfredo one, but he used to score proper stoppages.

Very few fighters actually spark someone clean, but the stoppages of Veit, Mitchell, Mkrtchian show how he used to throw power shots. If you look at Calzaghes career from Ashira(where he broke his hand) onwards then don't tell me he throws punches with the same intention and force as he used to. He admits himself he goes for quantity over quality nowdays because his hands can't take throwing big punches.

Funnily I've just had a look at the Calzaghe v Mitchell fight there(Showtime version) and the commentator says: 'Calzaghe has exhibited one punch power in the past'

He floored Eubank aswell, that's not exactly an easy thing to do.

Anyway it's just my opinion, but in his prime, Calzaghe had a decent punch on him. Certainly enough to hurt Nigel Benn, who's chin wasn't exactly granite.

bilbo79

Calzaghe was always a quantity fighter.
the only lads he ever knocked down with 1 connection where the original bums he fought to pad up his record; anyone would do the same in fairness.

Benn could be wobbled by punches but still was dangerous when hurt, Benn imo would of made short work of Calzaghe.

Eubank was gone when he fought Calzaghe, pointless using him as a valid point.

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

Cal's chin IMO was never ultimately tested by a real real KO artist; at least not in Benn's league

This is why, should he beat jones, i hope he stays on to fight Pavlik.
This question would be answered for once and for all. Also, if he were to beat Pavlik it should end the main complaint of many his detractors that he never fought a dangerous fighter in their prime. of course some people probably would still focus on who he hadn't fought to bring him down

Big Ears

bilbo79 wrote: »

Eubank was gone when he fought Calzaghe, pointless using him as a valid point.

Pretty amazing that an even more 'gone' version of Eubank came desperately close to beating Cruiserweight title holder Carl Thompson on two occasions, and the only one floored in those fights was Carl.