A tragedy all round.... However....

Trojan911

Thursday September 25 2008

AN off-duty Kerry garda whose mother was killed when he crashed as he drove her home from Knock Shrine, has been fined €1,000 and disqualified from driving for two years after being found guilty of dangerous driving resulting in death, at Dunmore District Court in Galway.
Adrian O’Donoghue of 1 Rosscastle Grove, Ross Road, Killarney, was involved in a collision on the N17 between Ballindine and Tuam in August of last year in which his mother, Margaret O’Donoghue, was killed in the crash.


The court heard that on Tuesday August 14, 2007, just after 3pm, Mr O’Donoghue was driving home from Knock Shrine with his mother, who was in the front passenger seat, and another passenger. It had been raining heavily, the roads were wet and the day was cloudy and overcast. About four miles outside Tuam on a single carriageway and on a left-hand bend, Mr O’Donoghue was seen overtaking a vehicle on a continuous white line. There were also overhanging trees on both sides of the road, which would have obscured Mr O’Donoghue’s ability to assess the situation. In the course of overtaking the vehicle, Mr O’Donoghue’s car collided with a Ford Transit van, with the point of impact occurring when Mr O’Donoghue was on the wrong side of the road, the court heard. Margaret O’Donoghue was killed in the crash and Mr O’Donoghue and the back seat passenger also suffered injuries.


The driver of the Ford Transit and his female passenger also sustained injuries. When gardaí attended the scene on August 14 they became aware of certain information and called in the Garda Ombudsman. Inspector Darren Wright made enquiries into the incident and was appointed the designated officer. He carried out an investigation and liaised with members of Mrs O’Donoghue’s family. Mr O’Donoghue was fully co-operative throughout the investigations. Mr O’Donoghue’s solicitor, Padraig O’Connell, told the court his 29-year-old client is the youngest in a family of seven. His father passed away when Adrian was just 15 years of age. Mr O’Donoghue entered the gardaí, aged 26, and is currently seeking substantial medical attention as a result of horrendous injuries sustained in the collision.


Mr O’Connell said his client’s GP had received a letter this week from the Garda Commissioner stating that Mr O’Donoghue is welcomed to recommence garda duties. However, at this stage it would appear that he will probably only be fit for office duties. Mr O’Connell said Mr O’Donoghue fully accepts that he was responsible for the collision. “He was extremely close to his mother and didn’t see the vehicle coming towards him. I suspect that if the weather wasn’t as bad as it was the accident wouldn’t have happened. He is still suffering hugely and this will live with him forever,” said Mr O’Connell.


Judge Geoffrey Browne described the incident as ‘totally tragic’. Taking his plea into consideration, coupled with the fact he co-operated fully with the gardaí and had no previous convictions, he said he would not be sending him to prison. “He has lost enough and has to live with this for the rest of his life,” said the judge.



Mr O’Connell said his client’s GP had received a letter this week from the Garda Commissioner stating that Mr O’Donoghue is welcomed to recommence garda duties.

Should he re commence his duties within AGS because of his actions?

Mr O’Connell: I suspect that if the weather wasn’t as bad as it was the accident wouldn’t have happened.

The accident wouldn't have happened if O'Donoghue had not crossed the white line to overtake.

http://www.kerryman.ie/news/offduty-garda-convicted-after-crash-that-killed-his-mother-1482116.html]Source

Discuss..

TheNog

bit of a hairy one of ye ask me.

I reckon along with the death of his mother, the fine and disqualification is enough of a punishment for him. I realise that as a Garda whether on or off duty, dangerous driving is what we are trying to curtail/stamp out but he made a mistake and is now paying for it and then some. It would be the same for any civilian too. I wouldn't like to see anyone, civilian or garda, having to be punished in such a way that woud cause them to lose their job over it.

So for me the punishment fits the offence.

GeturGun

Trojan911 wrote: »

Mr O’Connell: I suspect that if the weather wasn’t as bad as it was the accident wouldn’t have happened.

The accident wouldn't have happened if O'Donoghue had not crossed the white line to overtake.

Exactly word-for-word what I was going to post when I read that quote. What a ridiculous thing for the solicitor to say, the weather did not cause the crash

I wonder what the siblings think of the punishment? Would he have been jailed if the person he killed was not his mother??? If you take the 'gard' and the 'mother' out of it, all he got for killing someone was a paltry fine and a couple of years off the road. His injuries were self-inflicted.

TheNog wrote: »

I wouldn't like to see anyone, civilian or garda, having to be punished in such a way that woud cause them to lose their job over it.

If he was a taxi-driver/van driver/bus driver (etc etc) he would have lost his job over it.

timmywex

GeturGun wrote: »

If he was a taxi-driver/van driver/bus driver (etc etc) he would have lost his job over it.

Yes, but that would be because driving is his job, while in the guards, he can do desk duty or go on the beat, on patrol with someone else or a range or other things without driving a vehicle.


Tbh, he made a mistake, everyone is human and can do it, was just a bad judgement, he's defo suffered enough, but to lose his job would be too much imo.

CLADA

I would think the punishment fits the crime in this case and i'm not talking about the judgement of the District Court.

The punishment this man will face for the rest of his life will be:

Knowing every day that his mother is dead because of a mistake he made.

Everytime he meets one of his six siblings will be a reminder that he has also deprived them of their mother.

If he was interested in continuing in the Garda, his injuries will confine him to desk work, while he will have to watch his colleagues further their own careers while his stands still.

GeturGun wrote: »

Exactly word-for-word what I was going to post when I read that quote. What a ridiculous thing for the solicitor to say, the weather did not cause the crash

The weather did not cause the crash, but in all traffic accidents there are contributing factors such as: driver error, weather conditions, road surface etc..
These are all important details.

GeturGun wrote: »

I wonder what the siblings think of the punishment? Would he have been jailed if the person he killed was not his mother??? If you take the 'gard' and the 'mother' out of it, all he got for killing someone was a paltry fine and a couple of years off the road. His injuries were self-inflicted.

In order to come to a fair and just judgement the judge cannot take "the gard and the mother out of it" his punishment as I have outlined above is for a lifetime.
As much as you think he should have gone to jail, I am sure there is not a jail that could compare with the hell on earth this man has been going through since Aug. '07 and will continue to go through.

Trojan911

TheNog wrote: »

I wouldn't like to see anyone, civilian or garda, having to be punished in such a way that woud cause them to lose their job over it. So for me the punishment fits the offence.

I am undecided as well. Without a doubt he has made the biggest mistake of his life and is paying dearly for it. That in itself is a "Life Sentence".

Trojan911

GeturGun wrote: »

Exactly word-for-word what I was going to post when I read that quote. What a ridiculous thing for the solicitor to say, the weather did not cause the crash

A poor effort & totally ridiculous, I agree.

eroo

CLADA wrote: »

I would think the punishment fits the crime in this case and i'm not talking about the judgement of the District Court.

The punishment this man will face for the rest of his life will be:

Knowing every day that his mother is dead because of a mistake he made.

Everytime he meets one of his six siblings will be a reminder that he has also deprived them of their mother.

If he was interested in continuing in the Garda, his injuries will confine him to desk work, while he will have to watch his colleagues further their own careers while his stands still.

^^^That is the reality. He has to live with that until the day he dies. For those saying anyone else would've been sent to jail, I think you are wrong. He co-operated fully with Gardai, admitted responsibility and pleaded guilty from day one. He also suffered a physical injury. The same situation would be handed down to anyone, regardless of being a Garda or not.. i.e a fine and a ban

deadwood

Trojan911 wrote: »

When gardaí attended the scene on August 14 they became aware of certain information and called in the Garda Ombudsman.
Discuss..

Slightly off topic, but the way the meejya hint that something untoward might, possibly, maybe have happened is unfair and a cynical tactic to avoid libel.

For "became aware of certain information" read: the gardai on duty arrived on scene. The man involved told them he was a guard (unless otherwise has been reported). They, in turn, informed the Ombudsman as standard practice.

This is done regularly to sex up some stories. The Garda Press Office or representative bodies should point out that it is standard policy to notify the Ombudsman in these cases.

I'm not defending this mans actions in any way, just pointing out some unfair reporting. I also find the phrases "..was known to the Gardai..." and "...helping Gardai with their enquiries..." unfair.

Dave147

I would rather die in a crash myself that I caused than kill my mother in it. That's his life sentence and I feel sorry for him, however stupid it was for crossing the white line..

Eru

Dave147 wrote: »

I would rather die in a crash myself that I caused than kill my mother in it. That's his life sentence and I feel sorry for him, however stupid it was for crossing the white line..

I think this is probable the fairest comment ands sums up my feelings on the matter.

GeturGun wrote: »

Exactly word-for-word what I was going to post when I read that quote. What a ridiculous thing for the solicitor to say, the weather did not cause the crash

I wonder what the siblings think of the punishment? Would he have been jailed if the person he killed was not his mother??? If you take the 'gard' and the 'mother' out of it, all he got for killing someone was a paltry fine and a couple of years off the road. His injuries were self-inflicted.

If he was a taxi-driver/van driver/bus driver (etc etc) he would have lost his job over it.

You should not lose your job unless the conviction prevents you from performing your job in my opinion. A taxi or other driver losing his license can go back to work once his ban has finished should they so desire. If however a Garda was convicted of a criminal act which had both mens rea and actus reus then they would not be suitable to resume duties as far as Im concerned. Lets remember a murderer or child abuser can resume their careers within certain limits (say a plumber or waiter for example would have no restrictions from resuming work compared to a teacher or doctor)

However I tend not to debate with people who think im a 'GARD'. It shows a lack of education and understanding of An Garda Siochana and the Irish language considering its printed on our jackets and cars. An Garda Siochana, Garda, Gardai, Guard never GARD. The poster may as well have just said 'Pig' and been honest about his opinion.

Deadwood,
Press office issue responses on a daily basis but the papers are free to ignore them which they generally do. We are also restricted in our rights to take legal action either as an organisation or an individual for slander and/or libel. Stupid but true, were free targets

TheNog

GeturGun wrote: »

Would he have been jailed if the person he killed was not his mother??? If you take the 'gard' and the 'mother' out of it, all he got for killing someone was a paltry fine and a couple of years off the road. His injuries were self-inflicted.

in my opinion if you just took "mother" out of the equation he should get prison like anyone else who is found guilty of dangerous driving causing death and lose his job too but in this case the punishment given by the judge has rightly taken into account the results of his actions. Even if he wasn't a guard and his mother was killed, a prison sentence would not be warranted. There is no good to be got from putting a person into the prison system when that person knows they have caused the death of their mother.

Trojan911

eroo wrote: »

He has to live with that until the day he dies. For those saying anyone else would've been sent to jail, I think you are wrong. He co-operated fully with Gardai, admitted responsibility and pleaded guilty from day one. He also suffered a physical injury. The same situation would be handed down to anyone, regardless of being a Garda or not.. i.e a fine and a ban

In this case, I also believe jail is not the answer because of the above stated, i.e admittance of guilt, full co-operation, previous good character, injuries sustained and the personal loss involved etc. That, I believe, would go for anyone.

What would be an issue, I feel, is if the officer returned to full duties after a healing/recuperation period he would possibly struggle with dealing with future collisions or citing persons for RTA Offences etc. I cannot see how he could return to full duties. At 29 years of age I couldn't see him sitting at a desk for the next 20 odd years.

I agree that as a member of AGS he should have had the added sense to foresee the potential dangers of his actions over a normal Joe Public. A very grave error of judgement taken possibly down to lack of driving experience.

On a seperate note, when you look at the personal punishement this officer is going through & will go through for the rest of his life I hope he has been or is being monitored for depression and doesn't do or attempt what I am thinking. I'm sure AGS has a counselling service for members who suffer such traumatic incidents.

Also not forgetting the other party involved in this collision, thankfully their injuries were not life threatening.

Eru

Trojan911 wrote: »

I'm sure AGS has a counselling service for members who suffer such traumatic incidents.

ha ha ha ha, Ah Trojan, making a funny in a serious thread

Dinter

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Press office issue responses on a daily basis but the papers are free to ignore them which they generally do. We are also restricted in our rights to take legal action either as an organisation or an individual for slander and/or libel. Stupid but true, were free targets

That's why the press office should retract access to news organs that they think are showing the force in an unnecessarily harsh light.

(obviously I don't mean to facilitate coverups, corruption etc :rolleyes:)

I was told they've done it to a crime correspondant before but I can't remember which one.

Trojan911

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

ha ha ha ha, Ah Trojan, making a funny in a serious thread

What a strange post....

horsenaughton

everyone makes mistakes just one error in judgement cost him alot he has alot to live with with out being fired from his job but his job is not an ordinary one the mental damage tis crash had on him will effect him preforming his duties so maybe he not suited to front line duties anymore as a result he sud be given a desk job

Eru

horsenaughton wrote: »

everyone makes mistakes just one error in judgement cost him alot he has alot to live with with out being fired from his job but his job is not an ordinary one the mental damage tis crash had on him will effect him preforming his duties so maybe he not suited to front line duties anymore as a result he sud be given a desk job

Perhaps, time will tell and his supervisors will make the call.

Trojan911 wrote: »

What a strange post....

Councelling? Support? If he even attempts to claim any form of mental issues as a result of an off duty incident his job contract will be a worthless piece of paper. They only offer support for on duty incidents because they are afraid of being taken to court and it will still bite you in the arse further down the line, not getting promotions, specialist areas. (Maybe he isnt mentally tough enough? Etc. Not officially of course but it will be there)

eroo

horsenaughton wrote: »

everyone makes mistakes just one error in judgement cost him alot he has alot to live with with out being fired from his job but his job is not an ordinary one the mental damage tis crash had on him will effect him preforming his duties so maybe he not suited to front line duties anymore as a result he sud be given a desk job

No full stops or commas make baby Jesus cry!!!:p

deadwood

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Deadwood,
Press office issue responses on a daily basis but the papers are free to ignore them which they generally do. We are also restricted in our rights to take legal action either as an organisation or an individual for slander and/or libel. Stupid but true, we're free targets

Thanks for the tutorial.
I meant that a protocol should be agreed to prevent this innuendo. e.g. "...and the Garda Ombudsman was informed".

Eru

deadwood wrote: »

Thanks for the tutorial.
I meant that a protocol should be agreed to prevent this innuendo. e.g. "...and the Garda Ombudsman was informed".

Careful, your not suggesting we interfere with the 'free' and 'impartial' press are you????;)

deadwood

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Careful, your not suggesting we interfere with the 'free' and 'impartial' press are you????;)

Certainly not. But fai's fair. By and large we get the treatment we deserve from the press.
These phrases the press use aare a cheap way of hinting at something not yet proven.
Imagine Gerry Reynolds on the news: "...and the deceased was known to the Gardai - if you catch my drift (with an egaggerated wink to the camera)".

Trojan911

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Councelling? Support? If he even attempts to claim any form of mental issues as a result of an off duty incident his job contract will be a worthless piece of paper. They only offer support for on duty incidents because they are afraid of being taken to court and it will still bite you in the arse further down the line, not getting promotions, specialist areas. (Maybe he isnt mentally tough enough? Etc. Not officially of course but it will be there)

I would be of the impression that a civilian doctor would sign an officer back fit for light duties at the interim in the event of a traumatic incident. A Force Medical Examiner (FME) or the equivelent will probably then have to assess the officers suitability as to what he can/can't do (Open to correction).

This is where AGS will have to be careful because if they send an officer out doing something he is not capable of, the officer may relapse and that is when it can go legal. This is where I assumed there would be a counselling service offered to the officer, when or if, the officer returns to light duties at the interim.

What AGS have to remember, and I'm sure they are well aware, is that when an officer has suffered a massive traumatic event including a huge personal loss which may not go away for a long time, if ever.

Is that officer suitable to continue in the Service? Is the officer a now liability? Only time will tell I suppose, but at what possible cost?

deadwood

I'm sure the Welfare and/or Peer Support services could be availed of by him.
What services are available to his family and those of the other 400 or so victims every other year? Not forgetting the sufferers of "life changing" injuries which must number in the thousands every year.

rvd156

Lad's he killed his mother which he was very close to....

Thats the biggest punishment he could have gotten....

civdef

Repeating a story that is already in the piblic domain is fair enough, but I'm not sure it's appropriate to continue discussing the specifics of what is in essence a very personal tragedy.

Trojan911

civdef wrote: »

Repeating a story that is already in the piblic domain is fair enough, but I'm not sure it's appropriate to continue discussing the specifics of what is in essence a very personal tragedy.

You are right & I've altered my #23 to reflect away from the initial person in the news report, so now it is in general.