Nice people finish last? (work)

LegacyUser

I'm 27, working in banking and earn a respectable 50k. Got a 3k bonus last year so I'm doing something right hopefully. There will be no bonus this year for obvious reasons if you've been watching the news.

Been in it for nearly 3 years and getting demoralized. People here less time then me and far more confident than me are going for promotions, getting them and well done to them! But I worry about being left behind. I didn't push myself forward and I suppose I was terrified at rejection at an interview. Kinda humiliating to go for an internal promotion and get turned down.
But I've a teamate and imo he's fecking useless and he was rejected at interview 3 times but kept trying and he got a big promotion. Persistance and dedication works I suppose.
Maybe I've a fear of failure.

My managers tell me I'm good at my job but not in dealing with others as I've don't have much confidence which is true.I can talk up in meetings and I enjoy public speaking, I'm worked hard at that and I'm good at it. But I've an awful fear of confrontation and come across as quiet and timid

It's a fast-paced world and to get stuff done you'd be talking to people in countries all over the world getting deals done. But if something gets delayed I'm told to call someone to call someone and hassle/harass/ shout at someone until it's done. Or to call some other country and not to take no for answer until I get the info I need.

Maybe I'm timid or too softly spoken but I struggle with this. I can get on with everyone, everyone seems to get on with me but I ain't got the ruthless streak or even the confidence to get ahead here.
I know how I come across and it's as very shy even if I'm competant at all aspects of my job

Nice people finish last?

JuliusCaesar

nicebuttooquiet wrote: »

Maybe I'm timid or too softly spoken but I struggle with this. I can get on with everyone, everyone seems to get on with me but I ain't got the ruthless streak or even the confidence to get ahead here.
I know how I come across and it's as very shy even if I'm competant at all aspects of my job

Nice people finish last?

Nice or too nice? If it's being too nice, it may be a fear of confrontation, a fear of conflict. In which case Assertiveness Training is the thing. It's about being neither passive nor aggressive, but standing up for yourself in a way that is also respectful of others. There are a lot of books about it, but a course is probably the most useful in addition to the books. And practice, practice, practice! Try acting as if you are confident and people will treat you as though you were confident - which boosts your confidence!

Stheno

nicebuttooquiet wrote: »

I

My managers tell me I'm good at my job but not in dealing with others as I've don't have much confidence which is true.I can talk up in meetings and I enjoy public speaking, I'm worked hard at that and I'm good at it. But I've an awful fear of confrontation and come across as quiet and timid

I know how I come across and it's as very shy even if I'm competant at all aspects of my job

Nice people finish last?

I'd agree with Julius Cesaer on the assertiveness training, one thing that struck me is what I've highlighted in bold above, if this is feedback that you are recieving from your manager, is it possible that training around assertiveness etc could be put into your training/personal development plan if you have one in your work?

Imo, it's not about being nice/too nice, it's more about the confidence/assertiveness, some of the most nicest people I've known/worked with were very confident in themselves, didn't stop them being nice

Best of luck!

Karen_*

Always treat people with courtesy and respect. After all the people you meet on the way up are the people you'll meet on the way down. But as the others say assertiveness is the way to go. You can hassle until something is done but its possible to do it respectfully.

Zillah

This has nothing to do with being too nice. You said yourself that you didn't even go for any promotion opportunities so how you could possibly get them I don't know.

You're not too nice, you're too meek. Bite the bullet and go for something. Its perfectly possible to be both assertive and delightful.

herya

nicebuttooquiet wrote: »

Maybe I'm timid or too softly spoken but I struggle with this. I can get on with everyone, everyone seems to get on with me but I ain't got the ruthless streak or even the confidence to get ahead here.
I know how I come across and it's as very shy even if I'm competant at all aspects of my job

If you are not aggressive or super confident by nature don't force yourself to change your spots but instead try and work on becoming super efficient and reliable and getting this message across.

From what you say you are a good and dedicated employee already so all you need is to work on presentation, ie how to show it to the world and keep it up constantly. Talk to your friends or family on how they perceive you, what simple measures you can take to present yourself better and hide your doubts from the outside world. Some life coaching sessions might be of help too.

You don't have to be ruthless but if you can be perceived as a tower of strength and a very steady highly professional person it can take you far as well.

copacetic

Zillah wrote: »

This has nothing to do with being too nice. You said yourself that you didn't even go for any promotion opportunities so how you could possibly get them I don't know.

You're not too nice, you're too meek. Bite the bullet and go for something. Its perfectly possible to be both assertive and delightful.

Agreed, being nice doesn't come into it.

OP, you need to either give up and stay where you are but not complain about it. Or push yourself forward.

I must be missing something, the issue appears to be that someone in work hasn't forced a better position on you as you haven't even bothered to try and get something?

Nice people don't finish last, but people who don't even enter the race never even make the start line.

MagicMarker

OP, this is a case of just dumping in at the deep end, your confidence will grow but only if you actually push yourself.

I worked as a door-door salesman for a while, the first time i knocked on a door by myself i didn't know what was going on! I made a balls of it, but it got easier with every door and in the end i was perfectly comfortable doing it. There were times i actually would not take no for an answer until i got the sale. Before i started that job i would have never thought i was capable of that!

Believe in yourself, these other people around you aren't special, you can do it just as good as them, you just have to put your best foot forward.

Overheal

nicebuttooquiet wrote: »

I'm 27, working in banking and earn a respectable 50k. Got a 3k bonus last year so I'm doing something right hopefully. There will be no bonus this year for obvious reasons if you've been watching the news.

And, you've become too comfortable with that. Youve capped your appetite for success so to speak. For example my friend is a store manager and gets ~15k a year incl. commission. He's 4yrs happy and proud of his job. my other friend thinks he's crazy: He's going to college, borrowing thousands a year, to get a software dev job that will pay out on average anywhere from 50k-75k a year.

You really just need to re-train your motivation a bit and realise you are capable of better, and more importantly if you want to be promoted you really need to start thinking "This is not enough for me. I want more."

dazberry

nicebuttooquiet wrote: »

I'm 27, working in banking

There's your problem right there. WBanking. Full of sycophants, ar$e licks and people that have repeat experience of the peter principle. If banking is want you want to do well you'll have to play the game - but the game need not bare any relevance to your experience or ability.

I've first hand experience of this - and lets just say after 4 years of excuses and blame so to never get a payrise I left and went back as a consultant - doing 3 days p/w and earning the same as I used to in 5 doing the exact same job. Its actually sick and I don't care about the money - having spent 10 years in the real world prior - I want to go back and get a job where I judged for what I do - not what people can screw out of me. Its a hive of scum and villainy.

D.

recycle

You have a particular style OP and I would suggest that you dont forcibly change it. From reading your post, I think you deserve credit for it.

Whilst it seems to be the case that 'top dogs' in your organisation have overlooked this important character trait, Im quite sure that in the countless interactions you have had with colleagues and clients, this has not gone un-noticed. I wouldnt underestimate the postive impact you have on these people.

50 sumthing-k at 27 years of age sounds good to me too...!

Your doing more right than most of us. Keep it up.

universe777

Whining pussies finish last, grow a pair!
I wish I was earning even half of 50k, I have a college degree, I earn 18k, in nothing related to my degree.
I'm sure you worked hard to be where you are, work harder to keep it, if you dont have much confidence, get some pronto, think of it this way, which would you rather? confidence/assertiveness = promotion? or
no confidence = no promotion and possibly redundancy?
This might sound crude/rude, but with a defeatist attitude like "Nice people finish last?" you will begin to think like a loser, give off loser vibes, and you will get passed over for promotions.
By the way, I don't believe anyone in banking will be getting promoted anytime soon.

Zaph

In the bank I work for you can be damn sure that there's no-one there with only 3 years experience on 50k, so you're definitely doing something right. Try not to be so hard on yourself, but at the same time you have to realise that if you're not going to put yourself forward for a promotion it's not going to materialise out of thin air. Life isn't about knock-backs, it's about how you deal with them. As has already been suggested, a little assertiveness training might just be what you need for you to be able to deal with the knock-backs.

John Kimble

Nice?? Far from it. You're boasting about your 50k salary when in all likelihood, you're probably earning about 20k more than most here. At the same time, you're begrudging those who earn more than you. This is a vile, selfish thread, there are folk here with real personal problems, this doesn't even register. At 27, you should have learned a great deal more about humility.

Curlypinkie

Hmm, some posters here are really jealous on your salary?
Anyway, the way I've been thinking is, are you happy with what you're doing. Can you see yourself doing exactly the same thing for the foreseeable future? In today's career- and money-driven world that's almost a sacrilege to admit.
SOme people are just not cut out to make a career, it's maybe not the thing that interest them the most. That doesn't mean they don't have ambiion? You seem to be happy with what you earn.

At the same time you are a bit jealous (correct me if I'm wrong please) of your mates promotion. Are you jealous becaue he's got the promotion or just that he's is less timid than you?

Try to work out what you want to do and work towards that goal. If you think you're confident in what you're doing and you're good at it, then maybe you can excel further a field in the department. But there's no point in pushing yourself to do it.

I haven't been actively pursuing any specific career. My job pays my bills, I can handle it, I don't love it but i don't hate it either. It's a nice social aspect and the tasks in my day are not boring and tedious.

I don't live for my job, btw I work in banking as well, so a step up on the corporate ladder might be something I might pursue, but at the moment, I'm comfortable.

Maybe you are too?

Zillah

John Kimble wrote: »

Nice?? Far from it. You're boasting about your 50k salary when in all likelihood, you're probably earning about 20k more than most here. At the same time, you're begrudging those who earn more than you. This is a vile, selfish thread, there are folk here with real personal problems, this doesn't even register. At 27, you should have learned a great deal more about humility.

Totally uncalled for.

Zascar

John Kimble wrote: »

Nice?? Far from it. You're boasting about your 50k salary when in all likelihood, you're probably earning about 20k more than most here. At the same time, you're begrudging those who earn more than you. This is a vile, selfish thread, there are folk here with real personal problems, this doesn't even register. At 27, you should have learned a great deal more about humility.

John, Would you like a burger to go with that Chip on your shoulder?

OP at the end of the day, yes, often nice guys do finish last. You may be very good at your job but you have to Demonstrate this and make sure other people know you are good at your job, and eager and hungry to progress in a company. Promotions don't often get given to people who are not actively seeking them - you have to really WANT it. If you are not confident then work on that. Confidence is based on ability - if you are good at your job then you've got nothing to be afriad of. Make sure your ability is known by others too. In big companies you have to sell yourself. The higher you go up the tougher the people get, you need to be able to fend for yourself.

Try taking small steps to get over the fear or rejection. Many people go for the one job, only one person can get it, its part and parcel of climbing the ladder. If you show management you are eager and persistent to climb the ladder, they will reward you eventually. Stick your neck out. Do not be afraid to make enemies. Its eat or get eaten sometimes. I come across as a really nice gentle guy normally, but in work I stand up and fight for everything. Because of this I have made enemies and pissed people off but they get over it and you gain respect for this at higher levels. Senior Managers want people who are going to fight their corner for them, not roll over and die at the face of a confrontation.

Hope that helps.

John Kimble

Zascar wrote: »

John, Would you like a burger to go with that Chip on your shoulder?

Can you honestly assert that the concept of "nice guys finishing last" tallies with earning 50k a year? Really?
I'm quite happy with my chosen career, there isn't scope to earn more than 40k to be honest but money was never an issue. I opted for my line of work on the basis of what would offer a challenging, rewarding career. I certainly don't begrudge others earning more than I do, that's not my point. But if some guy is earning 50k a year at the age of 27, he is certainly not "finishing last" by any stretch of the imagination.

seraphimvc

John Kimble wrote: »

Can you honestly assert that the concept of "nice guys finishing last" tallies with earning 50k a year? Really?
I'm quite happy with my chosen career, there isn't scope to earn more than 40k to be honest but money was never an issue. I opted for my line of work on the basis of what would offer a challenging, rewarding career. I certainly don't begrudge others earning more than I do, that's not my point. But if some guy is earning 50k a year at the age of 27, he is certainly not "finishing last" by any stretch of the imagination.

in reality,young man(men in fact) before 30(may even possibly younger than OP) with a MBA from Stanford get their pay starting from 100k+ (that's the min.).fair?unfair?i get your point but that would be nice if we can give OP the 'right' help.

OP,you're in business = socialising is a huge part of it.Your connection/socialising skill = your biggest asset.think of it like a club,you can design good poster,make good advertisement,organise good events etc but you will never be the chairman,chairman is the one who can pull people to join,who has so some connection,who can go out and represent the club - leadership.A boss who cant move around his employees is no boss.

i guess you can get in a company straight a big position,but talking about promotion in the company you are working for is different - your boss advice has his points.

I never like the way of people talking about if you are enjoy your job then you are a happy man.IMO if i am into something now i will make the best of it.enjoy?ye sure ,but i think i will enjoy more if i can get a promotion proving i have done a good job(in your case),i always look for more and think how to make things better.fight if you want something,why would you be afraid?

i hope you find my post is supportive and sure you will find a way to fight it.
Goodluck OP!

MIN2511

I had a lot to say... But i would just say this, if you think you need more responsibility(promotion) why don't you sit down with your line manager and decide the best ways to approach your future. Surely there are courses or training you can enrol in to build you as an individual and an employee.

mikemac

Some harsh replies here. Twas a mistake OP to put the salary in Post 1.
A lot of students on boards too and I'd say many don't realize that some people live for their career. And some people happily work 50 to 60 hours plus a week, but yes get big money for it.

Most people get happiness from having a great social life or bf/gf or being a star in their sports team or whatever but sure if you're complety career driven and don't find time for other stuff then the fastest way you prove to yourself that you're good and people respect you is get a promotion.
And if you throw yourself into work and find yourself getting left behind in something you care about and worry about, yeah it's important to you.
Sure isn't there a post here in PI about a girl and her workaholic boyfriend.

The OP might be fantastic at their job but if nobody notices then that's not much good. And yes, often times the person who "talks a good game" gets ahead even if they aren't much good in reality. Much the same out on the pull in a nightclub! :pac:
And the OP could be good at their role but mightn't be able to lead a team.

Dunno, maybe the OP can work on their confidence, others have given better advice.

Btw folks, when you pass the 41% tax threshold, you're pratically working for the government.
Oh we'd all love a cash in hand job!