Pre Amps n such

munkydanny

Howdy, once agan I'm in a bit of an amplifier pickle, was going to invest in a Mesa/Boogei TriAxis Pre but I'm not sure if it's what I need. I have a Mesa/Boogie Dual Recto head (the older one) going through a Marshall 1960A cab but my sound has never been quite right. I'd love to get a vintage kind of a Van Halen/ Vai esq kinda sound with a more hard rock tinge somewhere between metallica and slash. I know theres a lot more to it than just the amp, but its gonna be my first real step in the right directon.

SO my question is, would it be a good idea to have a TriAxis Pre running through the Dual Recto head? or am I just going to get a horrible over gained sound?

Voodu Child

You could run the Triaxis through the Recto no problem, just going into the effects loop so you bypass the Recto's own preamp section.

The Triaxis is an awesome preamp, but mighty expensive, unless you catch a good deal (or import from US). It basically packs the preamp sounds of the Mark-series amps, which is completely different to the Rectifier sound. Much tighter than a Recto, with more mids, and with much better leads. It sounds like it might be exactly the sound you're after.

For the money of a Triaxis, IMO you'd be just better off going the full hog and getting a Mark IV. It would be less hassle than carting around both the Recto and also the Traixis. (Unless you actually want the midi-programability).

A cheaper option to all that is a Studio preamp, or Quad preamp. They don't have the varsatility of the Triaxis (or the programability), but they still pack the Mark-series gain sounds. They're VERY highly regarded bits of kit, absolute classics.

Eoin Madsen

munkydanny wrote: »

SO my question is, would it be a good idea to have a TriAxis Pre running through the Dual Recto head? or am I just going to get a horrible over gained sound?

Well, I don't think it's likely to give you the sound you're looking for anyway. Unless you are going for that "over gained" sound, running a preamp into the preamp of another amp is going to lead you to a situation where you're bleeding signal in all the wrong places just to keep the distortion down. It will add noise and it's not really going to change the core sound.

I don't know about Vai, but you'll never really get much of a Van Halen sound from a Mesa Boogie. I'd look at some vintage Marshalls, like a Superlead 1959 or even a JCM800 (or some modern clones of these).

Voodu Child

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

I don't know about Vai, but you'll never really get much of a Van Halen sound from a Mesa Boogie.

LOL

Eoin Madsen

You reckon a Boogie sounds like a Marshall?

Voodu Child

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

You reckon a Boogie sounds like a Marshall?

Which one? Which Boogie and which Marshall?

Such a sweeping statement as 'you'll never really get much of a Van Halen sound from a Mesa Boogie' is hilarious, have you played/heard any Boogies other than the Rectifier series?

Eoin Madsen

Of course I have. A Mark IV doesn't sound or feel much like any kind of 1959 or 1987, and for fairly obvious reasons since the circuit is totally different. I'm not aware of any Mesa Boogie amp in current production that has a preamp circuit anything like late 60s or 70s Marshall and I can't say I can recall ever hearing someone claim that they had achieved the covetted EVH tone with any Mesa Boogie amp. While it's obviously a generalisation, it still seems like a fairly reasonable one to make.

Obviously, there are lots of models of Marshall that won't get anywhere close to the EVH tone either.

Voodu Child

You obviously havent.

A Mesa Stiletto with variac engaged will nail a early VH tone straight out of the box.

A Mark IV will get almost as close with tweed/triode/harmonic settings and the right preamp push-pulls engaged. The Triaxis has a channel based on the MKIV lead, so running it into an EL-34 loaded Recto on Spongy will accomplish the same. The MKIII/Quad Ch2 can't be dialled quite as close as a IV, but it can still get 90% there.

There have been so many different amps and circuits made by Mesa/Boogie, and most with multiple preamp circuits and poweramp settings that making a blanket statement like that just shows how few you've played.

Eoin Madsen

Clearly, we have a differing opinion of how close to a tone you have to sound to have "nailed" it.

Do you sell Mesa Boogies or something? The OP mentioned Slash as well. Which Boogie do you reckon would get closer to an 80s Slash/GNR tone than the Marshall JCM800s or 2555 that he actually played at the time?

The OP asked about getting a vintage Van Halen sound, so I suggested a simple answer. Eddie Van Halen played a Marshall Plexi. I've played and heard a few Mesa Boogies but I've never heard any Mesa Boogie sound much like a Marshall Plexi by my ears. If the OP had asked how to get as close as possible to an EVH tone while maintaining unswerving loyalty to the Mesa Boogie brand then, of course, I wouldn't have had anything to add after your first post.

Voodu Child

The OP mentioned Slash as well

He also mentioned Metallica:rolleyes:

Do you sell Mesa Boogies or something?

:rolleyes:

The OP asked about getting a vintage Van Halen sound, so I suggested a simple answer. Eddie Van Halen played a Marshall Plexi. I've played and heard a few Mesa Boogies but I've never heard any Mesa Boogie sound much like a Marshall Plexi by my ears. If the OP had asked how to get as close as possible to an EVH tone while maintaining unswerving loyalty to the Mesa Boogie brand then, of course, I wouldn't have had anything to add after your first post.

....
The OP asked if a Triaxis into his Rectifier poweramp would get a 'Vai/EVH/Metallica/Slash' type tone. It will. Its such a versatile preamp and wide-ranging description that any other answer is wrong.

And the statement that 'you'll never really get much of a Van Halen sound from a Mesa Boogie' is incorrect.

Eoin Madsen

voodoo_child wrote: »

He also mentioned Metallica:rolleyes:

So what? I think you're missing the point I was making.

voodoo_child wrote: »

The OP asked if a Triaxis into his Rectifier poweramp would get a 'Vai/EVH/Metallica/Slash' type tone. It will. Its such a versatile preamp and wide-ranging description that any other answer is wrong.

I only referred to the EVH tone in my post. I wasn't attacking your advice, I was just making a comment in response to what the OP said. As for the above, that's a matter of opinion. He didn't say anything about running the Triaxis directly into the powerstage of the Dual Rectifier - you said that. And irregardless of that, I would still be of the opinion that any given model of Marshall JCM800 or 1959 Superlead would be a lot closer to the kind of tone that the OP seems to be interested in than any setup with a Triaxis in the front end.

voodoo_child wrote: »

And the statement that 'you'll never really get much of a Van Halen sound from a Mesa Boogie' is incorrect.

That's also a matter of opinion. A statement about tone can't objectively be right or wrong, and it makes very little sense to claim otherwise. I'll concede that I did generalise based on the Mesa Boogies I've heard, but I've played a Dual Rectifier and a Mark I and Mark IV, and none were even close by my ear.

I don't think this argument is really helping the OP.

BuddhaJoe

As a cheaper alternative maybe you should check out the ADA MP1. Generally go for 100-300 on Ebay and have been used by loads of 80's Van Halen-esque bands like Extreme and Mr Big!

Edit: Was also used by Kirk Hammet

Karl Hungus

Eoin, I think you're reading a little too much into the kind of sound that Munkydanny says he wants to get. He says "Kind of" a Van Halen/Vai "Esque" sound, it doesn't seem to me that he's specifically trying to replicate the Van Halen sound, but more giving a ball-park idea. I'm not saying you're wrong, and if it were a case of someone who was trying to nail EVH's sound, then I wouldn't question you at all, but I think you've made an oversight here.

I think the Triaxis is an extremely versatile unit, which you'll get a whole lot of usable tones from, and while it won't nail an EVH tone, it's certainly a big step closer than the rectifier. When we're talking about artists who'll use amps that are as far apart as Marshall, Bogner and Mesa, you're not going to nail all the tones, but a versatile amp setup that's going to get you in the ball park is definitely a good idea.

With regards to running a Triaxis through a Rectifier, I can't say it'd be the best of ideas. You could probably get a dedicated poweramp with change to spare if you sold the Rectifier, and ease the burned of the costly Triaxis. Sometimes you'll find people selling the preamp and poweramp together, which might be something to look out for.

darrenw5094

How much could you get a Triaxis for now second hand. I have just bought a TC Electronics G-Force..:D...

And is it a good idea to run the Triaxis straight into a desk or maybe into the power amp section of my Marshall JVM???

Eoin Madsen

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Eoin, I think you're reading a little too much into the kind of sound that Munkydanny says he wants to get. He says "Kind of" a Van Halen/Vai "Esque" sound, it doesn't seem to me that he's specifically trying to replicate the Van Halen sound, but more giving a ball-park idea. I'm not saying you're wrong, and if it were a case of someone who was trying to nail EVH's sound, then I wouldn't question you at all, but I think you've made an oversight here.

Well, yeah... it started with a suggestion but then we kinda veered off topic.

Voodu Child

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

Well, yeah... it started with a suggestion but then we kinda veered off topic.

No, the OP is playing a Mesa/Boogie and was considering another one. The discussion was in relation to a suggestion that you can't get a VH-style tone out of any Mesa/Boogie. So it was on-topic tbh.

Eoin Madsen

He said he was thinking about a Triaxis but wasn't sure if it was what he needed. I suggested an alternative, and gave a reason for my suggestion.

He asked if a Triaxis running into a Dual Rectifier head was a good idea. It isn't, and I said as much.

I didn't notice him asking us to have a detailed argument on whether or not one can obtain a satisfactory Van Halen tone from a Mesa Boogie.

But of course, I meant I veered off topic since voodoo_child would never be party to such a thing etc.

Karl Hungus

Relax guys, even if it is a bit off topic, it's still a worthy topic for discussion, and if the conclusion of that discussion is helpful to the OP, then all the better for it. I think at this stage though, it would be good if we wait for him to clarify the kind of sound he's after, so that we can offer some better advice.