LLB or FE1 prep for non-law grad

gilly86

Hi everyone...

I've just finished a BA in business studies, and I am hoping to pursue a career in law and become a solicitor.
I initially planned on going straight on to do the prep courses and sit my FE1s, but now I am considering actually doing an LLB and getting some of the FE1s under my belt at the same time. I was just thinking that due to the huge amount of competition out there at the moment it might be of more use to me?
I'm really just looking for any advice at all as to how many more doors the LLB will open up for me and if it is worth the extra bit of time?
Thanks

crazykid

I did a business studies degree, worked for a few years and now doing my FE1's. The FE1's are not hard, just a matter of reading alot and remembering cases. I never did a LLB but really would have thought it would be a waste of time to be honest unless you want to become a barrister in which case you need a law degree. Perhaps working in the legal field whilst doing your FE1's would be more benefcial. You may even get an apprenticeship through this. Really its whether you want to spend so long doing an LLB. I know I couldnt have done it and FE1's because of family comittments

dedon

No offense guys but you wont have a hope of getting an apprenticeship with a business degree. Look even people with a law degree AND a business degree are finding it VERY hard at the moment.

Why wouldn't you want to do an LLB?? I would recommend doing the LLB

Furthermore you wont get any respect in the Legal world without a Law degree

gilly86

Hey guys,

Thanks for the response. I would love to do the LLB but the cost and time is the only restriction. I have a couple of contacts and I am confident I will be able to secure a training contract, so it's really when I come out of Blackhall Place that I am mostly concerned about. So really I was just wondering whether a couple of years experience in the profession or the LLB would be more beneficial at this point? At the moment I've stuck with the FE1 prep, while the LLB starts next Monday, I really don't know

elgransenor

dedon wrote: »

No offense guys but you wont have a hope of getting an apprenticeship with a business degree. Look even people with a law degree AND a business degree are finding it VERY hard at the moment.

Why wouldn't you want to do an LLB?? I would recommend doing the LLB

Furthermore you wont get any respect in the Legal world without a Law degree

Totally wrong.
I got an apprenticeship with a B.comm and am in Blackhall now with many business and arts graduates.
Do the FE1s and don't worry about an LLB;the apprenticeship is the difficult part and you are happy enough it seems in that regard.
When I qualify nobody is going to be asking me what I did in college....your other life experience will be relevant though.
Ignore the intellectual snobbery and get the job done!
Be good at what you do when you qualify and help your clients and you will be fine.:cool:

McCrack

I absolutely agree with elgransenor. What a person studied at undergrad has absolutely no bearing on his/her chances of obtaining a traineeship, if anything it can be an advantage over graduates with pure law degrees insofar as other disciplines such as business/engineering gives a person a different perspective.
Essentially my advice to you gilly86 is if you are set on becoming a solicitor get some experience in a law firm and do an Fe1 prep course and sit the exams. In reality you will be in a better position to secure an apprenticeship if you have some practical experience in a firm than a BCL/LLB grad with no experience.

And as for dedons comment that "you wont get any respect in the Legal world without a Law degree", well that's just pure nonsense. If you have a flick through the Law Directory you will see just how many solicitors/barristers DONT have a BCL/LLB/BCorp. and are very successful and in addition quite a lot of the judiciary did not study law at undergrad. either.

I mean a practitioners worth is his professional reputation not what he studied at college or where in fact he went to college.

superficies

You will also see how many of our superior court judges did not study law in university... It's no disadvantage. FE1s and Blackhall--you want law for a profession; unergraduate law education is, like any other undergraduate degree, intellectual and critical stimulation. Very important skills, but you'll have got them already from whatever undergrad you did in college.

Maximilian

dedon wrote: »

No offense guys but you wont have a hope of getting an apprenticeship with a business degree. Look even people with a law degree AND a business degree are finding it VERY hard at the moment.

Why wouldn't you want to do an LLB?? I would recommend doing the LLB

Furthermore you wont get any respect in the Legal world without a Law degree

I know a mass of people who are solicitors or barristers with a non-law primary degrees, myself included. Three friends of mine for example are partners in leading firms, none of them have law degrees, although they did do diplomas. To suggest that you don't get respect is ridiculous though. Having a law degree or diploma is an advantage but a small one in my view and by no means a pre-requisite.

One thing other thing I would say is that there are virtually no jobs out there for trainee solicitors. In fact in the past 3 months many qualified solicitors have lost their jobs and I expect that to continue. Who knows when things will improve.

I would have to say to anyone considering a legal career at the moment, you might be making a very, very big mistake. The flip side to that point is that by the time you qualify as a solicitor, things may have improved. That's a fairly big risk to take with your future, unless you are absolutely sure it's what you want to do.

dedon

Thats what I mean. A firm/office is more likely to employ a trainee with a law degree in this current climate than a person without one.

Esp as conveyance law is in decline.

Maximilian

Well I disagree. If I was hiring a solicitor, I wouldn't give a crap what degree they have, as long as it wasn't some kind of stupid one. Because believe it or not, in this job, your degree means bugger all. That Evidence or criminology course you took in university, means jack **** in a commercial law position. It doesn't even mean a hell of a lot in a litigation position. Everything you do as a solicitor, you pretty much learn as you train to be one and thereafter. I only rarely have cause to consult the law books.

I'll take an enthusiastic, hard-working Arts Graduate over an academic with a masters any day. The advantage from having a law degree is only a small one I'm afraid.

The bottom line is, if you know enough to pass the FE1's, you know enough.

dedon

Maximilian wrote: »

I'll take an enthusiastic, hard-working Arts Graduate over an academic with a masters any day. The advantage from having a law degree is only a small one I'm afraid.

The bottom line is, if you know enough to pass the FE1's, you know enough.

So what you are saying is that a person with an ARTs degree and FE1s has a better chance than a person with a 1.1 Law degree and FE1s???

And a better chance than someone with legal research masters in commercial or whatever and applies to a firm/office that specialises in the similar

I seriously doubt that in the current climate

Maximilian

If that person seemed like a better candidate yes. If someone came in to interview for a commercial job with a LLB and some other commerical law related degree or something - yes an advantage but no guarantee. If somoene else came in for the same job with say an Arts degree but presented better, seemed like a harder worker or whatever, I think I would be inclined to go with the latter. If both presented equally well, I would go for the former, sure.

Once you are qualified as a solicitor, none of that matters anymore I think. If you have the experience and you are good at your job, what you studied in University is very much a secondary consideration.

Look I'm not saying a law degree is useless, far from it,it's great but it doesn't carry as much weight as law degree holder thinks it does when they get that parchment and emabark on a career as a solicitor.

Having all the knowledge in the world is of little use to a firm, if you are not a hard worker. If you have a first class honours degree in anything, then they know that person is hard worker. I think that's more important than the type of degree.

Punchesnpeaches

Maximilian wrote: »

If that person seemed like a better candidate yes. If someone came in to interview for a commercial job with a LLB and some other commerical law related degree or something - yes an advantage but no guarantee. If somoene else came in for the same job with say an Arts degree but presented better, seemed like a harder worker or whatever, I think I would be inclined to go with the latter. If both presented equally well, I would go for the former, sure.

Once you are qualified as a solicitor, none of that matters anymore I think. If you have the experience and you are good at your job, what you studied in University is very much a secondary consideration.

Look I'm not saying a law degree is useless, far from it,it's great but it doesn't carry as much weight as law degree holder thinks it does when they get that parchment and emabark on a career as a solicitor.

Having all the knowledge in the world is of little use to a firm, if you are not a hard worker. If you have a first class honours degree in anything, then they know that person is hard worker. I think that's more important than the type of degree.

Do you not think that someone who has a research masters is a hard-worker? I don't have a research masters but I did do a taught masters and the amount of self-discipline and work required is unreal.

In response to the OP, if you think that law is really a direction that you want to go in, I think that a business degree is a good base to come from. Might be no harm to do the LL. B and take yourself off the jobs market until things start (hopefully) to look up. Having said that, however, from my own experience, it is mentally exhausting enough doing FE-1s and to do a Masters on top of that is tough, tough, tough.

Cadet?

dedon wrote: »

So what you are saying is that a person with an ARTs degree and FE1s has a better chance than a person with a 1.1 Law degree and FE1s???

And a better chance than someone with legal research masters in commercial or whatever and applies to a firm/office that specialises in the similar

I seriously doubt that in the current climate

Why do you doubt it?

I didn't know the difference between statute and case law before I started my FE1's and I had an apprenticeship with a top 5 months before that.

Firms don't look for people who simply have amazing academic results (I'm as plum average as they come) but they do look for people with a bit of cop on, who are articulate, who understand that nothing is black and white, that sometimes it's better to say nothing than go diving in and are able to look people straight in the eye and question them....

This is why I think a lot of people with law degrees don't get the apprenticeships- they think that they're somehow more entitled to it than others and can be somewhat tunnel visioned.

And why do you keep on mentioning this 'current climate'? Why would law firms stop offering apprenticeships to non-law grads just because the economy has gone tits up? Surely a law firm does it's best every year, regardless of circumstances to get the best people for the job.......

To the OP;

Just do teh FE1's. You'll learn loads. Independent is fantastic...although it's a grind course you will learn all the fundamentals. Although I'd say a Masters or even an LLB would be great fun and really interesting if you want to work as a solicitor ASAP there reall is no need.

All the best.

Maximilian

Punchesnpeaches wrote: »

Do you not think that someone who has a research masters is a hard-worker? I don't have a research masters but I did do a taught masters and the amount of self-discipline and work required is unreal.

In response to the OP, if you think that law is really a direction that you want to go in, I think that a business degree is a good base to come from. Might be no harm to do the LL. B and take yourself off the jobs market until things start (hopefully) to look up. Having said that, however, from my own experience, it is mentally exhausting enough doing FE-1s and to do a Masters on top of that is tough, tough, tough.

Sure I do. Sorry maybe I was overstating my point.

colbags

i dont no how old this thread is but anyway...

I have a similar dilemma to the op in that i am in my final yr of a BA in Business Studies. However I would like to go on to the law society to the fe1s... it has been what i have wanted for a long time but kind of just stumbled in to the business course. I am a very driven person but i just ended up doing that course down to another series of events not to be mentioned here. I have been considering the llb and also looking at the conversion course in DIT. Would i be mad to go to do the LLB over three years if i could just do a prep course. One of the motivations for doing the llb is (as is mentioned above) a lack of respect in the legal world for those without a law degree. Im 21 years old. Is it too late to go starting an llb when i would be 24/25 taking the FE1s. (im sure it isnt that old on average for people taking them, Im more concerned from a financial point of view going for so long without a full-time job). Also just wondering if the op specialised in law in the final yr of his/her business course.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

eagle_&_bear

dedon wrote: »

Furthermore you wont get any respect in the Legal world without a Law degree

While I agree with the first part of your post, I don't agree with the latter part.

A huge chunk of the solicitors have BA/B.Comm/B.Sc very very few of them have law degrees or diplomas in law.

Its not a pre-requisite.

From my experience as a practitioner, once you qualify as a solicitor, neither your clients nor your colleagues will look behind your qualifications.

there is of course the overriding issue of being able to get an apprenticeship and it appears that this issue will remain for 2-3 years so think carefully about being able to get your placement etc.

I come from a B.Sc/LL.B background and whilst I agree the LLB would make the prep course significantly easier, alot of people go straight to FE1 prep courses. It's alot of work but if you're heart is in it, then make it work for you