About the House

Mike2006

Just for anybody who is interested, About the House is featuring a passive house being built in the Midlands by a self-builder. I think that they are going to follow him throughout his build.

Mike.

sydthebeat

Mike2006 wrote: »

Just for anybody who is interested, About the House is featuring a passive house being built in the Midlands by a self-builder. I think that they are going to follow him throughout his build.

Mike.

will the self-builder allow visits to the site by interested parties?

Mellor

He is slightly more than a self builder tbh,
and syd, he probably would

sydthebeat

where abouts in the midlands?? laois / offaly i hope??

edit: found out its in mullingar....

anyone have a contact?

sas

sydthebeat wrote: »

where abouts in the midlands?? laois / offaly i hope??

edit: found out its in mullingar....

anyone have a contact?

As Mellor pointed out, he's a little more than a self builder. It's this fellow.

http://www.patrickdaly.net/

From what I've seen so far he isn't doing anything that hasn't been discussed here in the past. Rising wall are AAC blocks. Then a layer of Foamglas blocks are used. Timberframe construction with panelvent on the outside in place of OSB and what looked like a stud depth in the region of 200mm - 220mm. The only other thing I noticed is that there doesn't appear (on visual inspection) to have been much done to reduce the amount of timber in the frame. The imported german systems go to the nth to reduce the amount of timber (hence bridging effect) as much as possible. It looked like a standard enough timber frame.

Disclaimer: Who am I to question this guy. I'm lead to believe he is one of the leading people in this country on low energy buildings.

sydthebeat

thanks sas....

Do-more

He has a second website http://www.besrac.net/ which might provide a little more info.

He ran a free seminar at his offices in Mullingar recently on the subject of Passive houses, as he has previously lectured in the School of Architecture DIT he was able to put accross the information in a clear and understantable fashion for lay people.

He is currently working on a few passive houses and one zero carbon.

Seems to be competent but as has been said already reading this forum will give you similar info.

[Not ment as an advert] He does offer some low cost services which may be of use to anyone here building a low energy house, e.g. for a few hundred euro he will review your drawings run the details on some software packages and identify any areas where improvements can be made etc.

Mellor

sas wrote: »

The imported german systems go to the nth to reduce the amount of timber (hence bridging effect) as much as possible. It looked like a standard enough timber frame.

I agree that les timber is better.
But closer to home is also better. How much energy is wasted via extra bridging, is it enough to pay back the shipping energy from german.

Obviously the real solution is to do it here

Disclaimer: Who am I to question this guy. I'm lead to believe he is one of the leading people in this country on low energy buildings.

He has done a masters in the area recently, and as previously mentioned was a lecturer in DIT. Still there in a research dept as far as I know.

heinbloed

Irish timber is more expensive as German timber.That is because of the huge amount of energy going into it.I have never seen any Irish timber exported to Germany (except for OSB boards and christmas trees) but plenty of German timber is landed in Ireland. Because a rational usage of expensive energy makes an industry leading. There is nothing like agro diesel (in Germany) available to loggers, forest owners, it doesn't exist there. German hauliers pay much more for fuel and taxes then the Irish, NCT tests are mandatory for hauliers over there, no driving/transporting on weekends for enviroment reasons. Restriction creates efficiency, sleeze creates spongers.Therefore they use less timber, the idea that a masonry wall is surrounded by a timberframe speaks for itself. Why not going for the cheaper and more efficient way and using an EPS insulation? No thermal bridging, savings on fuel and money and time....Using glass foam is expensive as well, very inefficient when going for PH standard.These ideas must have been borne in a well fed office. (But who am I to criticise other's building methods.....) PH should not more then 5% be more expensive then standard houses. This is the motto of the PH institute. But what I see there will easily increase the price by 10-20%. And this says a lot of the intention to safe on energy. Money is energy, and energy means capital. Basic economics.

sinnerboy

heinbloed wrote: »

Therefore they use less timber, the idea that a masonry wall is surrounded by a timberframe speaks for itself. Why not going for the cheaper and more efficient way and using an EPS insulation?

Heinbloed , there were about 4 or 5 German timber frame system providers at the RDS exhibition last week . Most offered an option of either EPS or Softboard to the external , followed by a thin render system . I asked if there was not a concern that the EPS would prevent the wall from breathing to the external . But they simply anwered words to the effect - "oh well if you are concerned about this - use the softboard "

Don't you believe that the EPS will "smother" the timber frame ?

sas

Mellor wrote: »

I agree that les timber is better.
But closer to home is also better. How much energy is wasted via extra bridging, is it enough to pay back the shipping energy from german.

Obviously the real solution is to do it here

I was coming at it more from the point of view that I can't see how he'll achieve PH standard with those timberframe walls. The studs aren't terribly deep and he didn't appear to be creating a warmframe using softboard or EPS.

The footings for the house suggest that it has a massive external wall to internal space ratio also which flys in the face of the PHI guide lines.

The coming episodes will be interesting...

stackerman

The coming episodes will be interesting...[/quote]


Ive yet to see this show, or any like it, show when there are mistakes made :rolleyes:

Fair play to him though, he's putting his money where his mouth is. If your really looking at something like this, a site visit would be a must me thinks.

heinbloed

To Sinnerboy:I'm not sure what you mean by "smoothing" in this case.You could ask those timberframe companies how they adhere to DIN 68800 which is demanding that timber subject to condensation is protected. There are a few methods, like using rot resistant timber varieties and chemical treatments."Locking-in" of loadbearing timber is a risky thing, therefore the German Industrial Standard("DIN") demands that precautions are taken, we spoke about that already in CI.The other method is to fabricate an internal liner that seals the frame 100% against air/moisture penetration. This can be done when working with new builds, it would be more difficult to do this in a renovation project.The standard solution is a sealed plastic membrane like PE foil.Covering every individual segment of the timber frame.Care must be taken when errecting the segments, when joining them, not to puncture the sealing.Irish timber frame manufacturers are using this method but also offer the breathable wall where moisture penetrating the wall from inside can get outside.I have seen this method being aplied many times now here in Ireland,it looks as it is becoming the generally accepted standard. 20 years ago it was the plastic foil only that was available. Things have changed,consumers and engineers have both learned.EPS would be difficult to use in a breathable wall system, here a rot resistant material for the loadbearing part of the building would have to be used, like steel, masonry, concrete etc.(It can be done however, provided the Sd values are known and can be used to calculate the breathability of the wall).These materials make the usage of EPS sheets -on the outside please!-possible, an ideal solution for these wall materials in financial terms.

sinnerboy

heinbloed wrote: »

To Sinnerboy:I'm not sure what you mean by "smoothing" in this case.You could ask those timberframe companies how they adhere to DIN 68800 which is demanding that timber subject to condensation is protected. There are a few methods, like using rot resistant timber varieties and chemical treatments."Locking-in" of loadbearing timber is a risky thing, therefore the German Industrial Standard("DIN") demands that precautions are taken, we spoke about that already in CI.The other method is to fabricate an internal liner that seals the frame 100% against air/moisture penetration. This can be done when working with new builds, it would be more difficult to do this in a renovation project.The standard solution is a sealed plastic membrane like PE foil.Covering every individual segment of the timber frame.Care must be taken when errecting the segments, when joining them, not to puncture the sealing.Irish timber frame manufacturers are using this method but also offer the breathable wall where moisture penetrating the wall from inside can get outside.I have seen this method being aplied many times now here in Ireland,it looks as it is becoming the generally accepted standard. 20 years ago it was the plastic foil only that was available. Things have changed,consumers and engineers have both learned.EPS would be difficult to use in a breathable wall system, here a rot resistant material for the loadbearing part of the building would have to be used, like steel, masonry, concrete etc.(It can be done however, provided the Sd values are known and can be used to calculate the breathability of the wall).These materials make the usage of EPS sheets -on the outside please!-possible, an ideal solution for these wall materials in financial terms.

Thanks HB - I meant smother i.e. to prevent breathing . I think I would "play it safe" and use softboard , not EPS externally , even if this reduces U Values a little . Better a lifetime at U = 0.22 than a short life at U = 0.20

Also - while in the factory - we may be satisfied that internal vapour proof membranes may be correctly installed - we cant be sure that the same care will be taken over the life of the building when it is modified by extension or alteration works .

Do-more

sas wrote: »

I was coming at it more from the point of view that I can't see how he'll achieve PH standard with those timberframe walls. The studs aren't terribly deep and he didn't appear to be creating a warmframe using softboard or EPS.

The footings for the house suggest that it has a massive external wall to internal space ratio also which flys in the face of the PHI guide lines.

The coming episodes will be interesting...

I was at the Passive House seminar, whilst I don't know which of his projects is being covered on "About the House" certainly some of them feature the use of EPS external insulation. Personally I would prefer to use a breathable material.

sas

Do-more wrote: »

I was at the Passive House seminar, whilst I don't know which of his projects is being covered on "About the House" certainly some of them feature the use of EPS external insulation. Personally I would prefer to use a breathable material.

It's his own house. Definitely no EPS. He is doing it all with natural materials. Not even treating the timber in the frame and using native timber too to cut down the carbon footprint effect.

DO0GLE

Are these passive houses susceptible to rot....say in twenty years time???

I don't know much about this type of build but I'd wonder how these houses would last in the long term, especially with our damp wet weather

sydthebeat

DO0GLE wrote: »

Are these passive houses susceptible to rot....say in twenty years time???

I don't know much about this type of build but I'd wonder how these houses would last in the long term, especially with our damp wet weather

of course not,.... every build has to pass building regulations which have minimal requirements. These houses have so much prior planning and preparation gone into them that they are generally the best examples of construction possible..... not just the minimal standard (and under) that the vast majority of dwellings in this country are built to..

Mike2006

I would imagine that the Heat Ventilation Recovery unit would take care of the ventilation requirements of the house to prevent dry rot.

Mike.

Mellor

Mike2006 wrote: »

I would imagine that the Heat Ventilation Recovery unit would take care of the ventilation requirements of the house to prevent dry rot.

Mike.

I'd say that you'd have other problems long before you hit the dry rot zone.
HRV would mor than look after it, as would any ventilation