Gardai stop check on the n2 ashbourne bypass

mcwhirter

Last weekend there was a gardai stop check on the n2 ashbourne bypass northbound. They were checking for tax and insurance I assume as thats where they were looking on the car.

This road is a dual carriageway with a speedlimit of 100km/h. There were no warning signs up before the stop check which I thought could have been dangerous and the gardai cars did not even have there lights flashing. Amateurs at best.
Also it is the first time I have noticed a stop check on a 100km/h dual carriageway.

LFCFan

mcwhirter wrote: »

Last weekend there was a gardai stop check on the n2 ashbourne bypass northbound. They were checking for tax and insurance I assume as thats where they were looking on the car.

This road is a dual carriageway with a speedlimit of 100km/h. There were no warning signs up before the stop check which I thought could have been dangerous and the gardai cars did not even have there lights flashing. Amateurs at best.
Also it is the first time I have noticed a stop check on a 100km/h dual carriageway.

what section was the checkpoint? The majority of that road is 120km/h

_Kaiser_

They do similar checks too occasionally on the N3 which is mostly all 100 km/h - well except for the stretches in Meath where the local county council have gone mad putting up new (lower of course!) speed signs all over the place. The strech around Navan between the Meath Chronicle and the last turnoff before the railway tracks has varied between 50 & 60 km/h over the past 12-18 months that I'd imagine no-one knows what the limit actually is anymore! :rolleyes: [/mini-rant]

But anyway... usually no advance warning on the N3 either (unless you count oncoming drivers helpfully flashing their lights ), and customs have taken to dipping trucks lately between Carnaross and Kells - also without any advance signage etc.

To their credit though, the last time I passed an actual checkpoint (as opposed to the regular squad car sitting in on the verge beside the nice wide, smooth, clear carriageway that is the N3 when you cross the Cavan border :rolleyes:) it was a drink-driving test on a Friday evening aroud 6ish. And even though the young Garda and myself both knew I was stone cold sober (and had a bit of a laugh about it while he ran through the mantra anyway), I was impressed with the professionalism and simple courtesy of the guy and think a lot of his colleagues could take lessons!

I'd much rather see them out doing that, than hiding on the aforementioned grass verges doing people for being a few km over a notional limit that seems to change with the wind lately!

Bandara

there was a few of them on the n2 and n3 from early last Saturday

two people were shot in blanch in seperate gang related incidents and they were searching for them everywhere

egan007

Yup it's a 120Kmph road - a great decision by those involved

Guy:Incognito

Theres regularly checkpoints at a coupel of spots on the Tallaght bypass (dual carriageway) . Theres never any issue with these and no problems with people not seeing them,

I dunno, maybe people just pay more attention to whats goign on up here.




BTW. Has there been may crashes caused by checkpoints?

_Kaiser_

LFCFan wrote:

what section was the checkpoint? The majority of that road is 120km/h

egan007 wrote: »

Yup it's a 120Kmph road - a great decision by those involved

Only between Finglas and Ashbourne, then it reverts to the standard 100 Km/h

jimmycrackcorm

After your first three accidents you learn to expect the unexpected and meeting a sudden checkpoint is ok.

mcwhirter

LFCFan wrote: »

what section was the checkpoint? The majority of that road is 120km/h

I stand corrected, it was the 120km/h section just before the turnoff for the airport northbound.

ergonomics

Was driving on country roads one day and came around a very sharp corner at about 60km/h (speed limit was 80km/h) only to find a car stopped as there was a car crash up ahead and the Guards had traffic stopped. Although I was a fair bit under the speed limit the car in front was right on the bend and I came so close to going into him that you couldn't fit a hair between the two cars. I got out to make sure I hadn't actually tipped him and the Guard started giving out to me. I politely pointed out that they were stopping people right on a bend with no warning signs in advance and that I had no way of knowing that there would be a car stopped right around the corner. I told him I dread to think what would have happened if I had been going to speed limit. He just told me to carry on and walked away.

Half an hour later my Mum was driving the same road. She drives a lot faster than me but I had warned her in advance. Good thing too as there were still no signs up and the car behind her almost went into the back of her as a result.

It was such a stupid set up and could have been easily fixed by moving the Guards to the straight stretch 50 metres before the bend, or having some sort of warning sign on the road.

mcwhirter

ergonomics wrote: »

Was driving on country roads one day and came around a very sharp corner at about 60km/h (speed limit was 80km/h) only to find a car stopped as there was a car crash up ahead and the Guards had traffic stopped. Although I was a fair bit under the speed limit the car in front was right on the bend and I came so close to going into him that you couldn't fit a hair between the two cars. I got out to make sure I hadn't actually tipped him and the Guard started giving out to me. I politely pointed out that they were stopping people right on a bend with no warning signs in advance and that I had no way of knowing that there would be a car stopped right around the corner. I told him I dread to think what would have happened if I had been going to speed limit. He just told me to carry on and walked away.

Half an hour later my Mum was driving the same road. She drives a lot faster than me but I had warned her in advance. Good thing too as there were still no signs up and the car behind her almost went into the back of her as a result.

It was such a stupid set up and could have been easily fixed by moving the Guards to the straight stretch 50 metres before the bend, or having some sort of warning sign on the road.

As I said previously , they are amateurs at best.

daveharnett

ergonomics wrote: »

Was driving on country roads one day and came around a very sharp corner at about 60km/h (speed limit was 80km/h) only to find a car stopped as there was a car crash up ahead and the Guards had traffic stopped. Although I was a fair bit under the speed limit the car in front was right on the bend and I came so close to going into him that you couldn't fit a hair between the two cars. I got out to make sure I hadn't actually tipped him and the Guard started giving out to me. I politely pointed out that they were stopping people right on a bend with no warning signs in advance and that I had no way of knowing that there would be a car stopped right around the corner. I told him I dread to think what would have happened if I had been going to speed limit. He just told me to carry on and walked away.

Half an hour later my Mum was driving the same road. She drives a lot faster than me but I had warned her in advance. Good thing too as there were still no signs up and the car behind her almost went into the back of her as a result.

It was such a stupid set up and could have been easily fixed by moving the Guards to the straight stretch 50 metres before the bend, or having some sort of warning sign on the road.

I take your point about the thoughtless positioning of the stop. However, regardless of the posted speed limit, people should be driving at a speed whereby they can stop within the distance they can see to be clear. Go round very sharp corners at 60kph and there are any number of hazards that might catch you out. I came pretty close in a similar situation recently and I wouldn't blame anybody but myself.

x in the city

Guardai just n0bs of the highest order.

a few months ago outside foynes I was behind a van doing about 5mph, and we left the town and he was still doing this speed, and then all of a sudden he stops in the middle of the road.

apparently there was a check point ahead, on the bend of the road.

I pulled over to the right after the van stalled in the middle of the road to see what was going on and a n0b guarda appears and waves me to the hard shoulder and gives me a fine for dangerous driving.

how can these clowns put up check points on roads with a 120/km limits and/or on bends of roads. ? have they brains at all?

total n0bs

ardmacha

Was driving on country roads one day and came around a very sharp corner at about 60km/h (speed limit was 80km/h)

What had the speed limit to do with it? You should only have travelled at a safe speed whatever the speed limit is. A speed limit does not imply that it is safe to travel at that speed. Yes the Guards should have put a warning around the corner, but it does not excuse speeding through the bend.

Anan1

ergonomics wrote: »

Was driving on country roads one day and came around a very sharp corner at about 60km/h (speed limit was 80km/h) only to find a car stopped as there was a car crash up ahead and the Guards had traffic stopped. Although I was a fair bit under the speed limit the car in front was right on the bend and I came so close to going into him that you couldn't fit a hair between the two cars. I got out to make sure I hadn't actually tipped him and the Guard started giving out to me. I politely pointed out that they were stopping people right on a bend with no warning signs in advance and that I had no way of knowing that there would be a car stopped right around the corner. I told him I dread to think what would have happened if I had been going to speed limit.

Would you do 80km/h over a cliff if the sign said you could? The Garda should have charged you with dangerous driving, TBH.

ergonomics

daveharnett wrote: »

I take your point about the thoughtless positioning of the stop. However, regardless of the posted speed limit, people should be driving at a speed whereby they can stop within the distance they can see to be clear. Go round very sharp corners at 60kph and there are any number of hazards that might catch you out. I came pretty close in a similar situation recently and I wouldn't blame anybody but myself.

ardmacha wrote: »

What had the speed limit to do with it? You should only have travelled at a safe speed whatever the speed limit is. A speed limit does not imply that it is safe to travel at that speed. Yes the Guards should have put a warning around the corner, but it does not excuse speeding through the bend.

Anan1 wrote: »

Would you do 80km/h over a cliff if the sign said you could? The Garda should have charged you with dangerous driving, TBH.

Woah! Calm down!

Think for two seconds would ye? I was behind a car. I was behind it enough that when it went round the bend I didn't see it, I didn't see it stop, it disappeared from my sight. Why do you think that was? Was it because I was tailgating or driving too close? No! It was because I was keeping a safe distance. I was in the process of slowing down as just past the corner is a level crossing. I don't keep an exact record of what speed I was going and to be perfectly honest I was probably going under 60km/h as I was intending to get my speed down before the level crossing and keep it down. I just know that on average the bends on the road require you to slow down to about 60km/h to be safe. Most drivers continue at 80, I prefer to brake and take it slowly. (Just out of interest, next time you're all driving on country roads watch what speed you go around bends. Tell me honestly what speed you go. I doubt it's anything less that 55km/h) I had no idea that there would be a car stopped smack on the bend but in future, just to keep all of you happy, I will go around every bend very very slowly just in case there is a crash/car stopped around the bend. But don't get annoyed if you're behind me, I'm just being safe.

Just for the record, the guard gave out to me for not seeing the car. He never once mentioned driving too fast/too near the other car. Just said something along the lines of 'Did you not see the car in front of you was stopped?!' to which I replied 'No, because he had gone around the bend when he stopped and I was too far back to see that'. The driver in front also verified that I was a bit behind him and agreed with me that the Guards were in a terrible place.

WHITE_P

Obviously some people don't travel on back roads very much, because if they did, they would know that to make progress you have to maintain a reasonable speed despite not being able to see around every bend. If everybody approached every bend on minor roads at a speed that would enable them to stop immediately should there be an unforeseen obstacle just around the bend / corner, it would be quicker to walk. Maybe we should bring back the flag man!!!

Gardai management of incidents on our roads, needs to be improved, afterall if the contractors who cut the hedgerows all around the country can provide adequate notice of potential hazzards ahead, using just two signs, surely the gardai can at least match them, given the resources they have. Just take a look in any garda station yard at the amount of signage they have lying around.

WHITE_P

Anan1 wrote: »

Would you do 80km/h over a cliff if the sign said you could? The Garda should have charged you with dangerous driving, TBH.

Can you justify the above statement, afterall the OP stated she was travelling below the speed limit, and managed to stop without causing any further incident, even if it was close.

TheNog

I agree with the comments on here. I have seen a checkpoint conducted on the N3 at 5.30am, pitch dark with two banners in the middle of the road with no blue lights on the car. Absolute madness and even though they were wearing their hi-viz jackets ye still couldn't see them and I told them so.

In fairness ye don't see that happening often or at least I don't. Having said that human intellect is only surpassed by human stupidity.

ardmacha

Obviously some people don't travel on back roads very much, because if they did, they would know that to make progress you have to maintain a reasonable speed despite not being able to see around every bend.

Are you for real, no wonder so many people are killed on the roads. It is a fundamental principle of driving that you travel at a speed that allows you stop within the distance you can see. You can make a case for higher speed on modern motorways designed with long sightlines, but on a twisty road you cannot maintain a high speed. Some people seem to think that the speed limit or the speed that the car stays on the road is the target. This is dangerous driving if they cannot stop safely in the distance they can see.

after all the OP stated he was travelling below the speed limit,

the speed limit has nothing to do with it, you can't career around bends just because you are below the speed limit just as you cannot drive in fog or ice at the speed limit.

WHITE_P

ardmacha wrote: »

Are you for real, no wonder so many people are killed on the roads. It is a fundamental principle of driving that you travel at a speed that allows you stop within the distance you can see. You can make a case for higher speed on modern motorways designed with long sightlines, but on a twisty road you cannot maintain a high speed. Some people seem to think that the speed limit or the speed that the car stays on the road is the target. This is dangerous driving if they cannot stop safely in the distance they can see.



the speed limit has nothing to do with it, you can't career around bends just because you are below the speed limit just as you cannot drive in fog or ice at the speed limit.

In theory your fundamental principle is correct, however in the real world it is just not practical, in order to travel around any blind bend / corner as you suggest, you would need to drive up to and stop or slow to about 5mph / 8kph, and crawl around each and every bend. Where would that get us, numerous rear end shunts not to mention the traffic jams.

Two things that are vital to travelling on minor roads, are to expect the unexpected, and be especially observant for potential hazzards. I have not mentioned speeding or careering around bends as neither did the OP, she was below the posted speed limit, and therefore was not speeding and from her post was driving in a responsible manner.

WHITE_P

TheNog wrote: »

I agree with the comments on here. I have seen a checkpoint conducted on the N3 at 5.30am, pitch dark with two banners in the middle of the road with no blue lights on the car. Absolute madness and even though they were wearing their hi-viz jackets ye still couldn't see them and I told them so.

Are there no Health and Safety guidelines for the setting up of checkpoints etc. May be something you's need to take up with the GRA.

TheNog

There was a complaint to the HSA about a guard who had stopped a car at night and was at the roadside without his hi-viz on. Recent direction from Dublin directing all guards to wear hi-viz all the times while in the car.

Wibbler

ardmacha wrote: »

It is a fundamental principle of driving that you travel at a speed that allows you stop within the distance you can see.

It's actually worse than that if you consider risks from oncoming traffic. If two cars traveling towards each other follow the 'speed that allows you stop within the distance you can see to be clear' rule then in tight situations they will both need the same physical road space in which to stop, with potentially disastrous consequences.

busman

ardmacha wrote: »

Are you for real, no wonder so many people are killed on the roads. It is a fundamental principle of driving that you travel at a speed that allows you stop within the distance you can see. You can make a case for higher speed on modern motorways designed with long sightlines, but on a twisty road you cannot maintain a high speed. Some people seem to think that the speed limit or the speed that the car stays on the road is the target. This is dangerous driving if they cannot stop safely in the distance they can see.

Here Here!!

I commute 37 miles each way on back roads from outside Mallow to Bandon. It takes about 55min. I'm always prepared to stop when I come to a blind bend. You just don't know what will be around it! Tractors, school buses, trucks, hedge-cutter, horses, dogs, people walking, rock in road etc. etc.
You might get away with going faster for a while but it's just a game of chance,
one day you are going to come across something that you can't avoid!

If you haven't run completely out of luck you will be able to walk away with only a bent car, but if you have been pushing your luck you will be just a entry here :
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/maintopics/index.aspx?c=Road+deaths&jp=mhql

I'm willing to get up a few minutes early to arrive safe and in one piece!

Paul

WHITE_P

busman wrote: »

I'm always prepared to stop when I come to a blind bend.

Your always prepared to stop when you come to a blind bend, but what speed are you travelling at.

busman wrote: »

You just don't know what will be around it! Tractors, school buses, trucks, hedge-cutter, horses, dogs, people walking, rock in road etc. etc.

Expecting the unexpected.

The way ardmacha puts it, you would think I suggested driving as hard as possible, with a hair on fire, born to die attitude. I didn't, I'm just trying to point out the difference between theory and practice.

mick-skyline

ardmacha wrote: »

What had the speed limit to do with it? You should only have travelled at a safe speed whatever the speed limit is. A speed limit does not imply that it is safe to travel at that speed. Yes the Guards should have put a warning around the corner, but it does not excuse speeding through the bend.

Anan1 wrote: »

Would you do 80km/h over a cliff if the sign said you could? The Garda should have charged you with dangerous driving, TBH.

ardmacha wrote: »

Are you for real, no wonder so many people are killed on the roads. It is a fundamental principle of driving that you travel at a speed that allows you stop within the distance you can see. You can make a case for higher speed on modern motorways designed with long sightlines, but on a twisty road you cannot maintain a high speed. Some people seem to think that the speed limit or the speed that the car stays on the road is the target. This is dangerous driving if they cannot stop safely in the distance they can see.



the speed limit has nothing to do with it, you can't career around bends just because you are below the speed limit just as you cannot drive in fog or ice at the speed limit.

you pair are pure saints arent you.

going with those comments you should be charged with dangerous driving, driving too slow and being a hazard to other road users, thats possible too, and with having to drive at a safe speed to which you can stop within your visual distance does that mean because my car will out break most of yours i can drive faster i think not, get off your fookin high horses will ya and give the lad one of your medals, he did drive at a safe distance, he was below the speed limit and was able to stop his car in the distance required it still doesnt mean the situation was best suited, and yes the flagman shoud be returned as its alot of inconsiderate drivers that cause crashes and what not then the garda turn up and make things worse....(nobody sit in traffic around xmas no, the free flow crap that doesnt work??)

now onto topic, checkpoints should be random but also visable, adn on roads where there is space to pull cars in when needs be, ie roads with a lay-by or hard shoulder, once the car is there the lights should be on it, no need for the extra lights that have been put out lately but it does help to have more. see them everywhere all the time, i woldnt be surprised if they put one on the m50 to tell the truth.

ardmacha

For what it is worth I agree that the OP was not speeding as he was able to stop safely. I did contest the mention of the speed limit as the original post suggested that driving at less than the speed limit automatically meant it was safe. On this forum it is often stated that people should drive at the speed limit and you get crazy suggestions like "people driving at less than the speed limit should get points". Other than on a newly built road the speed limit is not even an approximate indication of a precise safe speed, it is only a legal maximum.

Garda checkpoints should be clearly visible, but they should be able to have checkpoints on dual carriageways and all types of road they just need to deploy additional warning lights etc.

Anan1

WHITE_P wrote: »

Can you justify the above statement, afterall the OP stated she was travelling below the speed limit, and managed to stop without causing any further incident, even if it was close.

Sure. The OP was driving far too fast for the bend. The speed limit is irrelevant.

ergonomics

Anan1 wrote: »

Sure. The OP was driving far too fast for the bend. The speed limit is irrelevant.

Were you there? Were you in the car with me? Do you know the exact geography of the bend? Do you know the EXACT speed I was driving? Do you know exactly how the situation occured? No, no, no, no, and no. So you can't back up that statement. You're just going on what you assume. As I said in my reply at the top of this page the guard never gave out to me for speeding or for driving too fast, just for not seeing the car.

Anan1

ergonomics wrote: »

Were you there? Were you in the car with me? Do you know the exact geography of the bend? Do you know the EXACT speed I was driving? Do you know exactly how the situation occured? No, no, no, no, and no. So you can't back up that statement. You're just going on what you assume. As I said in my reply at the top of this page the guard never gave out to me for speeding or for driving too fast, just for not seeing the car.

I'm assuming nothing. You told us that you stopped a hair's breath from the other car. This happened because you were driving too fast for the bend.

WHITE_P

Anan1 wrote: »

Sure. The OP was driving far too fast for the bend. The speed limit is irrelevant.

Typical type of answer I've come to expect from you. Must be wonderful to be a perfect driver in an unperfect world.

If speed limits are irrelevant, why are they there in the first place and why is there so much emphasis put on enforcing them.

John Mason

the check was because of the All Ireland Final. Everytime there is a big sporting event, the guards are on the roads that will be used most doing checkpoints.

i hit a check point at 10pm last at dunsink in finglas, 7 guards standing the road having a conversation for about 3/4 mins while the line of cars kept building up.

i dont know why you need 2 squad cars, one unmarked and about 10 police people for one check point.

every tuesday/wednesday night, its the same thing

TheNog

irishbird wrote: »

the check was because of the All Ireland Final. Everytime there is a big sporting event, the guards are on the roads that will be used most doing checkpoints.

Better to have checkpoints with a high level of traffic going through. Checks for tax, insurance and especially drink driving.

irishbird wrote: »

i dont know why you need 2 squad cars, one unmarked and about 10 police people for one check point.

every tuesday/wednesday night, its the same thing

2 marked cars for hi-viz and 1 of them as a chase car if anyone turned around. regularly happens.

1 unmarked suggests the checkpoint could have been an armed checkpoint. If not armed then the unmarked is being used by uniform gardai.

10 gardai = for vehicles that would need to be pulled over if detection made or searches. This amount of Gardai suggests the road has or sometimes has high level of traffic.

John Mason

TheNog wrote: »

10 gardai = for vehicles that would need to be pulled over if detection made or searches. This amount of Gardai suggests the road has or sometimes has high level of traffic.

thanks for that

but it is a quiet little back road, every tuesday or wednesday night between 9.30pm and 10.30pm, its the same thing, the unmarked parks outside my house and the others are down the road a bit

LarWright

I was stopped on the M50, after a bend up near the Sandyford exit. Now, on a bend, with a 100 km limit, I dunno, but my opinion is, that's more dangerous than most other motoring offences! I wrote of the RSA and Dept of Transport, the basic jist of the replies were the Garda can stop Who they want, when they want, wherever they want. Including it seem, LIVE MOTORWAYS where it's illegal to stop anyway! This was part of the reply from DoT.

The vehicles used by Gardaí, when acting in the course of their duties, are not subject to the road traffic regulations.......

.....The Department of Transport has no role in relation to Garda operational matters or the practice of setting up checkpoints on motorways or other roads but it seems that the Gardai most likely chose that section to carry out their checkpoint due to the fact that a lower maximum speed limit applies and to do so at that location would be the same for passing traffic as to carry out such checks at any location on a national road where a maximum 100km/h limit applies.

TheNog

irishbird wrote: »

thanks for that

but it is a quiet little back road, every tuesday or wednesday night between 9.30pm and 10.30pm, its the same thing, the unmarked parks outside my house and the others are down the road a bit

the unmarked is definitely for cars that turn away or turn off the road suddenly but could still have armed gardai inside.

LarWright wrote: »

I was stopped on the M50, after a bend up near the Sandyford exit. Now, on a bend, with a 100 km limit, I dunno, but my opinion is, that's more dangerous than most other motoring offences! I wrote of the RSA and Dept of Transport, the basic jist of the replies were the Garda can stop Who they want, when they want, wherever they want. Including it seem, LIVE MOTORWAYS where it's illegal to stop anyway! This was part of the reply from DoT.

Best practice is not to conduct a checkpoint near a bend in the road for obvious reasons but sometimes traffic does back up to that or near a bend in the road. It would be highly unusual for gardai to allow traffic to build up this way but it can happen if a large amount of traffic arrives at the checkpoint at once.

Checkpoints are also done on Motorways too but would require alot of manpower and cars with plenty of lights. There is no way anyone should do a checkpoint with only one car and two or three Gardai. Too dangerous for everyone involved.

If you feel that your complaint is valid write to Garda Headquarters instead of the RSA or DoT. As outlined in the letter they have nothing to do Garda operational matters. Would do no harm to point out potential problems or dangers.