NCT Failed - Foreign Car

eoc74 · 22-09-2008 12:57pm #1

Hi,

I was wondering if anybody here has any idea what I need to do to pass the NCT with a foreign car.

The car failed on Saturday because of the headlights pointing into the middle of the road(normal for a Left Hand Drive). But I have just been to a garage and the guy said he had no idea what needs to be done as its not a simple re-alignment!

The NCT guy told me I could buy a "kit" but I have looked and nobody seems to know anything on that! Would anybody here have any idea please?

Thanks!

Darragh29 · 22-09-2008 1:04pm

What type of car is it??? Make & model?

cantdecide · 22-09-2008 1:05pm

I think you can get a little plastic thingy that blurs out some of the beam??? If it's your car and you plan to keep it, you're better off getting a pair of RHD headlamps off ebay or the local scrapyard. You can always keep the LHD ones or sell them on ebay to recoup you money.

ondafly · 22-09-2008 1:06pm

its probably some form of black tape that goes over a part of the headlight. The same stuff you use when you bring your RHD car over to France

mcwhirter · 22-09-2008 1:34pm

eoc74 wrote: »

Hi,

I was wondering if anybody here has any idea what I need to do to pass the NCT with a foreign car.

The car failed on Saturday because of the headlights pointing into the middle of the road(normal for a Left Hand Drive). But I have just been to a garage and the guy said he had no idea what needs to be done as its not a simple re-alignment!

The NCT guy told me I could buy a "kit" but I have looked and nobody seems to know anything on that! Would anybody here have any idea please?

Thanks!

I am sure that when you import a lhd into Ireland then you have to change over the lights to the rhd type. The tape is only for visitors only.

Anan1 · 22-09-2008 1:56pm

The right way is to replace the headlights.

eoc74 · 22-09-2008 2:00pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

What type of car is it??? Make & model?

The car is an 04-D Ford Focus. I called Ford and they said that even changing the headlights will fail the NCT! They suggested getting "beam benders" which are stickers but there was no guarantee! Need to see where to find them now!

Its not very well thought out considering there are loads of left hand drives in Ireland!

ardmacha · 22-09-2008 2:06pm

Its not very well thought out considering there are loads of left hand drives in Ireland!

And these all have their lights pointing out into the middle of the road, which is exactly the sort of thing the NCT should check for.

cantdecide · 22-09-2008 2:07pm

That can't be true. Maybe they thought you wanted to change the bulbs only?

Alun · 22-09-2008 2:08pm

eoc74 wrote: »

The car is an 04-D Ford Focus. I called Ford and they said that even changing the headlights will fail the NCT! They suggested getting "beam benders" ..

I'd say they were talking out of their posteriors myself. If you fit RHD headlight units into a LHD car then I reckon the lights will be just fine and pass the NCT. The beam benders are only a temporary measure, meant for occasional tourists.

Darragh29 · 22-09-2008 2:09pm

eoc74 wrote: »

The car is an 04-D Ford Focus. I called Ford and they said that even changing the headlights will fail the NCT! They suggested getting "beam benders" which are stickers but there was no guarantee! Need to see where to find them now!

Its not very well thought out considering there are loads of left hand drives in Ireland!

Well the problem is that LHD car designed to light up to a greater extent, the margin of the road to the left and a RHD car is designed to do the same on the margin of road to the right. I don't see why changing the headlamps to suit a LHD car wouldn't resolve the problem...

eoc74 · 22-09-2008 2:13pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well the problem is that LHD car designed to light up to a greater extent, the margin of the road to the left and a RHD car is designed to do the same on the margin of road to the right. I don't see why changing the headlamps to suit a LHD car wouldn't resolve the problem...

Nor can I but Ford were adamant. Maybe its got to do with the angle they go in at or something.

Anyway, Im still stuck because the car needs to do the NCT. If it cant be done, the test would not comply with European law as it would effectively bar foreign cars from the country. Beam Benders is what I have been advised to get.

cantdecide · 22-09-2008 2:15pm

Well, this will be the first car in history that has completely different LHD an RHD lamps, then. Better organize a press release

Alun · 22-09-2008 2:19pm

Still sounds like rubbish to me. It's purely down to the shape of the reflector surely? Why not just try getting hold of a pair of 2nd hand headlight units from a scrapped RHD car and replacing them. I'm not sure how the units are fitted in the normal Focus, but on my C-Max they're pretty easy to remove (you have to effectively do that to replace any of the bulbs!).

Cookie_Monster · 22-09-2008 2:21pm

eoc74 wrote: »

Beam Benders is what I have been advised to get.

They are useless. We had them on the coach we got over to Switzerland. Melted to the light covers by the end of the first day!

eoc74 · 22-09-2008 2:22pm

cantdecide wrote: »

Well, this will be the first car in history that has completely different LHD an RHD lamps, then. Better organize a press release

Well Ford have advised me not to do it so Im hardly going to go out and spend €100 on new lights just in case theyre wrong! Again, the guy at the NCT said to buy a "kit". I assume he means these "Beam Benders". Im going to contact the NCT people to see but I cant see them giving a straight answer!

Alun · 22-09-2008 2:28pm

eoc74 wrote: »

Well Ford have advised me not to do it so Im hardly going to go out and spend €100 on new lights just in case theyre wrong!

Wouldn't be the first (or the last) time a car manufacturer's head office has got it wrong either! As I said, try getting a second hand pair from a scrap yard or something .. will cost a lot less than €100 I'm sure. Try calling them again and try calling their bluff by asking exactly why replacing the headlight units won't work.

Beam benders are just specially shaped bits of sticky black plastic that stick on to the headlight lens. They work, kind of, but they're not a long term solution. They'll peel, fall off and need replacing, plus they reduce the amount of available light as well. Not good.

Heroditas · 22-09-2008 2:35pm

Johnny Foreigner coming in and failing our NCT tests. Should throw the car in the bin. :P

Mr. Presentable · 22-09-2008 2:38pm

If you bought the car here, surely it has to be fit for the purpose intended and in this case it is not. But I presume you imported it, in which case a call to a vehicle importer should clarify whether replacing the lights would be sufficient

Darragh29 · 22-09-2008 2:50pm

eoc74 wrote: »

Well Ford have advised me not to do it so Im hardly going to go out and spend €100 on new lights just in case theyre wrong! Again, the guy at the NCT said to buy a "kit". I assume he means these "Beam Benders". Im going to contact the NCT people to see but I cant see them giving a straight answer!

Well maybe you should revert back to Ford and ask them to explain to you how it can be that when the light pattern that is emitted from your headlamp is specific to the headlamp design, your headlamp obviously having been designed for a RHD vehicle, that this would not be corrected when a headlamp with the correct light pattern for a LHD vehicle would be fitted to your car??? At the end of the day, you have two problems here:

(A) On your car, the light pattern on the right hand headlamp unit is angling up at approximately 15 degrees from the horizontal at the right hand side when this should be happening on the left hand side, (see image attached with red line pointing to where light should angle up at 15 degrees).

(B) Beam benders will remove the angle of light at the right hand side by simply blocking the front of the lens, just as you would do this by putting your hand over the glass on the headlamp unit!

You can resolve problem B with black tape or some masking gadget to eliminate this angle of light. But you cannot resolve problem A without replacing the headlamp. If you were very lucky, you'd have an NCT tester who would be happy enough with you just resolving problem B above and wouldn't get too hung up on problem A, but if you want it fixed properly, them you need to solve A and B above.

Darragh29 · 22-09-2008 2:52pm

Apologies, I forgot to attach the diagram to the last post. This diagram is from the NCT (National Car Test) Manual 2004, downloadable from:

http://www.ncts.ie/nctmanual.pdf

Darragh29 · 22-09-2008 2:56pm

What the tester is seeing when he looks at the machine for your car is an exact mirror image of what you see in the diagram above, with the 15 degree sloping line on the right side of the image and the horizontal beam of light on the left side of the image.

The idea of the light beam angling up like this is to illuminate the ditch or the side of the road nearest the car and obviously any person or object that might be positioned there. because your car is highlighting the right hand side of the road, this will cause oncoming drivers to be blinded by this section of light coming from your right headlamp.

You can see all this in action if you drive your car up close against a wall at night and turn your dip beams on...

eoc74 · 22-09-2008 3:00pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well maybe you should revert back to Ford and ask them to explain to you how it can be that when the light pattern that is emitted from your headlamp is specific to the headlamp design, your headlamp obviously having been designed for a RHD vehicle, that this would not be corrected when a headlamp with the correct light pattern for a LHD vehicle would be fitted to your car??? At the end of the day, you have two problems here:

(A) On your car, the light pattern on the right hand headlamp unit is angling up at approximately 15 degrees from the horizontal at the right hand side when this should be happening on the left hand side, (see image attached with red line pointing to where light should angle up at 15 degrees).

(B) Beam benders will remove the angle of light at the right hand side by simply blocking the front of the lens, just as you would do this by putting your hand over the glass on the headlamp unit!

You can resolve problem B with black tape or some masking gadget to eliminate this angle of light. But you cannot resolve problem A without replacing the headlamp. If you were very lucky, you'd have an NCT tester who would be happy enough with you just resolving problem B above and wouldn't get too hung up on problem A, but if you want it fixed properly, them you need to solve A and B above.

I hear you but maybe these kits actually reflect the beam back the other way?

Darragh29 · 22-09-2008 3:43pm

eoc74 wrote: »

I hear you but maybe these kits actually reflect the beam back the other way?

I don't think so, I haven't used one before but it sounds like something that would be a messy solution. Also, you'd need a headlamp aligner to locate where you would put it on the lens... I'd be getting a new headlamp before I'd be messing about with bending beams of light!

eoc74 · 22-09-2008 3:46pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

I don't think so, I haven't used one before but it sounds like something that would be a messy solution. Also, you'd need a headlamp aligner to locate where you would put it on the lens... I'd be getting a new headlamp before I'd be messing about with bending beams of light!

Maybe this is what they want.......

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Super-Beam-Benders-foreign-driving/dp/B000ZBF6BC

Alun · 22-09-2008 3:50pm

Back in the days of standardised circular sealed beam headlights you used to be able to get (usually yellow) clip-on lens covers for driving "on the continent". These were effectively lenses that bent the light, but haven't been available for ages. And in any case AFAIK they were only ever made for RHD -> LHD conversion, not the other way round, so no use to you.

But seriously, just get a second hand pair of Focus headlights from a scrapyard.

EDIT: Those "beam benders" look like what they meant, but even if they work, they'll still be crap compared to doing it properly, and no guarantee whatsoever they'd pass the NCT either.

Darragh29 · 22-09-2008 3:52pm

I'm not being flippant but I just wouldn't be into these kind of solutions, They'd probably fall off or something, I'm just old fashioned I suppose!

eoc74 · 22-09-2008 3:53pm

Alun wrote: »

Back in the days of standardised circular sealed beam headlights you used to be able to get (usually yellow) clip-on lens covers for driving "on the continent". These were effectively lenses that bent the light, but haven't been available for ages. And in any case AFAIK they were only ever made for RHD -> LHD conversion, not the other way round, so no use to you.

But seriously, just get a second hand pair of Focus headlights from a scrapyard.

EDIT: Those "beam benders" look like what they meant, but even if they work, they'll still be crap compared to doing it properly, and no guarantee whatsoever they'd pass the NCT either.

But what headlights from a scrapyard? Would they not be RHD lights?

Darragh29 · 22-09-2008 3:56pm

eoc74 wrote: »

But what headlights from a scrapyard? Would they not be RHD lights?

No, just get a set of headlamps from a left hand drive car. be careful taking them off and fitting them, the mountings on the headlamps are delicate and can break easy, as I've found out once too often!

Alun · 22-09-2008 3:58pm

eoc74 wrote: »

But what headlights from a scrapyard? Would they not be RHD lights?

Yes .. that was the general idea wasn't it?

Alun · 22-09-2008 4:00pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

No, just get a set of headlamps from a left hand drive car. be careful taking them off and fitting them, the mountings on the headlamps are delicate and can break easy, as I've found out once too often!

Aren't we getting our LHD and RHD mixed up here? Irish cars are RHD and "foreign" cars are LHD .. it's the side the steering wheel is on, not which side of the road they drive on.

Darragh29 · 22-09-2008 4:14pm

Alun wrote: »

Aren't we getting our LHD and RHD mixed up here? Irish cars are RHD and "foreign" cars are LHD .. it's the side the steering wheel is on, not which side of the road they drive on.

Sorry, wakey wakey here! RHD!

eoc74 · 22-09-2008 9:14pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

Sorry, wakey wakey here! RHD!

Yes, just a misprint at the end of a long day! Im going to ring the nct crowd to see what they say. Changing the headlights sounds like the right thing to do but Im wary after what the Ford people told me.

Darragh29 · 22-09-2008 9:59pm

eoc74 wrote: »

Yes, just a misprint at the end of a long day! Im going to ring the nct crowd to see what they say. Changing the headlights sounds like the right thing to do but Im wary after what the Ford people told me.

Well that's the problem with the industry, if the main dealer says it, then it must be true! Ask him how it could be replacing the headlamps wouldn't resolve the issue??? Closer to the truth probably is that he just doesn't want to take the chance with taking in your problem in case the wiring circuit for the lights on your car might be a bit different than the new headlamp assembly is wired for, or there could be some sort of mismatch in terms of headlamp mountings or connections. He should be happy to do this job for you but letting you know at the same time that there are mismatch problems with a new headlamp not fitting into a hole where an old headlamp came from, or if someone has to engineer up a wiring solution to overcome any problems on that front, then you get the bill regardless and it has to be paid, in other words its at your own risk...

galwaytt · 22-09-2008 10:13pm

ye're over complicating it.

Euro LHD and UK/ROI RHD cars - only difference is the light unit -wiring is the same.

Buy a pair of used lights, out of a breakers. Mind you, ask the price first - you'd be surprised how cheap complete Ford light units are.....

Darragh29 · 22-09-2008 10:22pm

galwaytt wrote: »

ye're over complicating it.

Euro LHD and UK/ROI RHD cars - only difference is the light unit -wiring is the same.

Buy a pair of used lights, out of a breakers. Mind you, ask the price first - you'd be surprised how cheap complete Ford light units are.....

You have to cover yourself in this game. If they don't match up because of a small difference, who is going to pay for it? Ideally they would be interchangeable and they should be but I've learnt enough times through experience that what seems very straightforward and simple can turn out to be a headache to resolve, all because someone made an assumption that X would be interchangable with Y and it turns out not to be so... If a garage gets it wrong, or not even gets it wrong but even fails to tell the customer that this might not be straightforward and there could be a complication, then you'll have a hell of a job getting the customer to pay for it, that's all I'll say... I've had this before where you are doing your absolute best and you assume it's an in and out job and next thing there is a problem with a part and you've a customer screaming down a phone at you looking for a hire car delivered to their house for tomorrow. because they have it in their head that you've fu*ked up...

Top Dog · 22-09-2008 10:29pm

A guy I work with brought his family wagon over when he moved here from Portugal. VW Passat estate. Only thing he had to do to get it past the NCT was change the headlamps for those out of an Irish/UK model. Simple as that. I doubt it'd be any different for a Focus or any other car, and also believe that Mr Ford is simply trying to cover his back just in case anything went wrong. If the person you were talking to had any doubt then they're gonna cover their ass for fear of the repurcussions of any mis-advice they give.

eoc74 · 23-09-2008 7:34am

Top Dog wrote: »

A guy I work with brought his family wagon over when he moved here from Portugal. VW Passat estate. Only thing he had to do to get it past the NCT was change the headlamps for those out of an Irish/UK model. Simple as that. I doubt it'd be any different for a Focus or any other car, and also believe that Mr Ford is simply trying to cover his back just in case anything went wrong. If the person you were talking to had any doubt then they're gonna cover their ass for fear of the repurcussions of any mis-advice they give.

Maybe but if so, what kind of society are we living in when you cant get a mechanic to do a job youll pay for because theyre afraid?????? I suspect with the current malaise that in a year or two, people's tunes will change when theres a paying customer at the door. Incidentally, I also asked an independent garage and they refused to touch it. The price for ONE new headlamp for a Focus....................€127.51 (€105.38 ex VAT)

peasant · 23-09-2008 8:03am

On my yoke I changed the headlamps myself ...was a job of 10 minutes.

Have a good look at the Focus and see how easy or difficult it is to take out a headlamp. If it's simple, just take one out and plonk it on the counter to compare it with a RHD one, that should settle the matter.

eoc74 · 23-09-2008 8:21am

peasant wrote: »

On my yoke I changed the headlamps myself ...was a job of 10 minutes.

Have a good look at the Focus and see how easy or difficult it is to take out a headlamp. If it's simple, just take one out and plonk it on the counter to compare it with a RHD one, that should settle the matter.

Just spoke to the NCT people and this is what they said "The only thing we know that will pass the NCT for a Left hand Drive is stickers that you can buy in Motorfactors to put on the headlights"............

DannyBuoy · 23-09-2008 8:26am

The fact that the stickers are a poor attempt to replicate the light pattern form the correct (rhd) headlamp unit is obviously lost on them...

peasant · 23-09-2008 8:32am

eoc74 wrote: »

Just spoke to the NCT people and this is what they said "The only thing we know that will pass the NCT for a Left hand Drive is stickers that you can buy in Motorfactors to put on the headlights"............

In that case you were talking to a plank.

When I asked them, they did say that they would pass a LHD car with properly blanked out/ beam bended LHD lamps and that I needn't necessarily change to RHD lamps.

I went ahead and changed them anyway (for my own safety as blanked out LHD lamps give very poor light) and subsequently passed the NCT no bother

Darragh29 · 23-09-2008 10:24am

eoc74 wrote: »

Maybe but if so, what kind of society are we living in when you cant get a mechanic to do a job youll pay for because theyre afraid?????? I suspect with the current malaise that in a year or two, people's tunes will change when theres a paying customer at the door. Incidentally, I also asked an independent garage and they refused to touch it. The price for ONE new headlamp for a Focus....................€127.51 (€105.38 ex VAT)

A Mechanic just doesn't want to be left with 260 Euro worth of parts that he can't get credit for and have an hour or two taken up with something that can't be resolved. You are right, a good few years ago, there would be no problem getting this done. The problem is that in recent years with our celtic tiger mentality, people have become a lot less patient and when there is the slightest problem these days, people immediately start looking for discounts, compensation, free courtesy cars, labour knocked off, etc. I would have happily done this job for a customer on what I would call a "best effort" basis, so that if there is some unforeseen mismatch with parts, I am not responsible. You would also need to be aware that the car could be off the road for a day or two and that you could be getting the car back with the original headlamps re-fitted. What you should do is try to minimise any potential loss by getting two headlamps in a scrap yard. Shop around, if you can get them for less than 50 Euro each cash, then you're only out of pocket 100 Euro for parts if this can't be done.

One thing you need to make sure of is that whatever garage you go to, they have a head lamp aligner. You'd be surprised how many garages don't have one of these!

Alun · 23-09-2008 10:33am

What everyone else said ....

Replacing the headlight units should be a DIY job, it certainly is on my 04 Focus C-Max as I said in a previous post, and I can't imagine the normal Focus being any different (although the '04 C-Max was effectively built on the new model Focus platform).

Quite literally it's a case of undo one big torx screw on each side, release a few clips and wham. Take off the connectors, insert new light units and reconnect. All you need then is a garage with an alignment machine and you're sorted.

Whilst you might pass the NCT with the stickers, as I and others have said, the light output will be reduced by using them, and I personally wouldn't want to be relying on them full-time, especially in the winter. Your call, really I suppose.

VH · 23-09-2008 11:03am

peasant wrote: »

In that case you were talking to a plank.

it would be unwise of the ncts to be advising users to swap headlights as it is not a guarantee of a pass

peasant · 23-09-2008 11:08am

VH wrote: »

it would be unwise of the ncts to be advising users to swap headlights as it is not a guarantee of a pass

Yeah, well ...if you wanted to nitpick, you'd have to mention that they of course would have to be properly aligned as well ...but that's a given, really (or it should be)

Darragh29 · 23-09-2008 11:15am

VH wrote: »

it would be unwise of the ncts to be advising users to swap headlights as it is not a guarantee of a pass

Well that's really the fact of the matter, they do have to be changed. There are only two guarantees in life, death and taxes. That's what I'm talking about in my last post, this modern expectation that everything is guaranteed and straightforward. What's wrong with the NCT guy just giving some professional "no strings attached" advice, over and above the advice he is obliged to give???

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

R.O.R · 23-09-2008 11:38am

Someone very helpfully ran one of our Focus's in to the back of another car yesterday, so it's out the back with the bonnet up.

If it's the new model Focus (pre-facelift) then it looks like headlights are held in with a couple of screws and plugged in to the wiring loom with a connector. If you can handle a screwdriver then a swap with RHD headlights is a 20 minute max job. I'd say you should be able to pick up a set from a scrapyard cheap enough, then you'd probably have to get them aligned.

Alun · 23-09-2008 11:43am

R.O.R wrote: »

Someone very helpfully ran one of our Focus's in to the back of another car yesterday, so it's out the back with the bonnet up.

If it's the new model Focus (pre-facelift) then it looks like headlights are held in with a couple of screws and plugged in to the wiring loom with a connector. If you can handle a screwdriver then a swap with RHD headlights is a 20 minute max job. I'd say you should be able to pick up a set from a scrapyard cheap enough, then you'd probably have to get them aligned.

[mini-rant]
Enough people, including myself, Darragh29 and others, have told the OP this in as many words already many times. If he doesn't want to take that advice on board, well, that's up to him, I suppose, but why go to the bother of asking for advice on a public forum if you're not going to take any notice of what you're told?
[/mini-rant]

VH · 23-09-2008 11:51am

Darragh29 wrote: »

What's wrong with the NCT guy just giving some professional "no strings attached" advice, over and above the advice he is obliged to give???

the fear of being sued?

Darragh29 · 23-09-2008 12:02pm

VH wrote: »

the fear of being sued?

Regrettably the more you post, the more you confirm what I'm pointing to! Sued for what, a pair of headlamps??? It is exactly this litagant mentality that if everything doesn't go perfectly someone must be sued, that has the OP in a situation where nobody is really interested in taking this job on. The NCT are 200% correct in the advice given. That car cannot pass the NCT (I mean the NCT as per the regulations and I've posted them here), without the headlamps being replaced to suit the headlamps that are required for this jurisdiction.

To be honest OP, this thread is starting to grow legs, just go out and get 2 headlamps for your car in a scrap yard and spend an hour fitting them yourself, end of problem.

NCT Failed - Foreign Car

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