Choosing a watch

ntlbell

I was wondering if you could give me a hand picking out a watch.

I've been looking at a few but with all the options I'm getting confused I don't want to overpay for features I won't use but the features I want I need to be easy to use and use them features well.

I don't think I'm asking for too much what I want is.

when running

I hit a button and at a glance on a run I can see distance ran/cal's burned/heart rate ideally I'd like it to do all this without any pre programming for me so I think I'm looking at gps here? or would I still need to program it like a pedometer?

when walking.

Distance walked/steps/cals burned

and if possible but not essential to be able to upload the data somewhere like mapmyrun or a mysql/mssql db or something similar

Am I looking for a miracle?

911sc

Garmin Forerunner 405 or Polar with GPS pod (see Tunney's recent post)

Why do you need the know the number of steps if you know the distance?

Peckham

Would recommend the Garmin Forerunner series if you're looking for those features, however there is quite a price differential between the basic models (e.g. 201) and advanced models (e.g 405), so do some comparisons and make sure you're not paying for features you'll never use......unless you're a gadget freak and want a cool toy!! :cool:

Racing Flat

For training - Garmin Forerunner ticks all those boxes. Have a 305, but can't wait until this dies so I can justify getting a 405.

For racing - Timex Ironman. What a classic!

tdlynch

I've had a Garmin Forerunner 405 since 21 August, and I am one satisfied customer. I know the date because I can check when it was first used using the Garmin software on my PC or online at connect.garmin.com

It's ready to go out of the box, but I did spend a bit of time customising the info display on the screen.

Shows cals, distance, heartrate, etc, but also tells you pace, speed, and altitude ascended/descended. And you've a choice of current, last lap and/or average pace.

And then there's the cool features: you can view your runs on google maps from the Garmin website, download training programs from runnersworld.co.uk and routes from mapmyrun.com.

My favourite feature is saving a location, heading off on my run and then at a certain point deciding I want to go home: up pops a compass and how far away it is (in a straight line). Great when you're out of the country and running in a strange land.

On the otherhand, it is expensive, it's not waterproof and you do need to recharge it every 4-5 hours of exercise (in normal watch mode it lasts ages, but when it is using GPS it eats batteries).

If you do a fair amount of running and can stretch the extra couple of quid, I think it's worth the extra expense.

hunnymonster

tdlynch wrote: »

... it's not waterproof and you do need to recharge it every 4-5 hours of exercise

You had me up to this bit. I didn't realise it was sooooo hard on battery life. I recently got 13 hours (without HR) out of my 305. I could never live with a 5 hour battery.

tdlynch

They advertise 8 hours, but in reality it's 4-5.

I don't find it that inconvenient - typically charge it twice a week. And I've no ambitions towards that ultra nonsense!

Peckham

hunnymonster wrote: »

You had me up to this bit. I didn't realise it was sooooo hard on battery life. I recently got 13 hours (without HR) out of my 305. I could never live with a 5 hour battery.

Likewise. I was going to buy one of these, but that does seem like remarkably short battery life. Seems strange given that many people buying them could be doing marathons of 4-5 hours, never mind their ultra audience. Pretty much means you have to charge it after every second training session.

I get 12hours+ out of my 201.

ekevosu

charging the 405 doesn't really take that long to be honest so its not really that much of a hassle. Its a great watch, very easy to use out of the box. It helps you concentrate on the runs, checking your pace as you go and calculate distance when in areas not covered on mapmyrun or pedometer.

Only problem is I've become a bit too reliant on it and while the distance / average pace etc are working great, the pace per mile as I'm running has become erratic and doesn't seem to be right, even though the overall average pace at the end is right. 205 / 305 / 405 is well worth the money. HRM works well too.

depadz

some options - usb battery pack, solar charger etc.
also came across a site once where some dude wired it up to a dynamo on his bike.

http://www.coolrunning.com.au/forums/index.php?showtopic=20312

hunnymonster

ekevosu wrote: »

charging .... its not really that much of a hassle.

unless your average training session lasts more than 4 hours in which case it's almost useless:pac:


Will have to get a solar charger for MdS.

ekevosu

hunnymonster wrote: »

unless your average training session lasts more than 4 hours in which case it's almost useless:pac:

Will have to get a solar charger for MdS.

I did about 3 hours on saturday and it was still over 50% for me.

Those running backpacks could be really useful for carrying the solar charger / car battery to charge it though for the ultra athletes.........

racso1975

Am i right in sayig that the 405 cannot be used in the sameway that the 305 can be adapted for cycling?

Highway_To_Hell

You can pair the 405 with a bike cadence sensor and there is a bike mount for the watch as well.

I have got over 6+ hrs of GPS training time between charges, but the recharging is starting to become a hassle as in standby mode it will use up around 10% of the battery per pay, I don't wear it as a watch so would have been good if there was an actual off button - The booklet states that "your forerunner ships with the power off to conserve the battery..." but I cannot figure out if there is a way to turn off the display completely to conserve the battery.

Once while out for a 2+hr run and I had not charged the watch up before hand (plugged it in but didn’t turn on the socket switch) it ran out of power after 1hr but it seemed to go into some kind of power saving type mode and when I uploaded the training session to my PC I had all but the last 10mins of the session

Distance/pace would appear to be very accurate and when looking at training sessions via google earth the mapped run is only ever 1-2meters off course.

It helped me achieve my target time in the Dublin Half Marathon last week as a few times even though I didn’t feel my pace dropping the 405 told me differently. I hope this is something I can tell myself in time as I get more experience.

Battery issue is the only negative thing I can say about the watch and this will become more of an issue as I plan on competing in the Lisbon 1/2 Ironman next April.

Krusty_Clown

I get about 7-8 hours from my 405. After a three hour run, it's typically down to 60% battery power. It is waterproof, but only to IPX7 (1 Metre of water for 30 minutes). So no triathlons, unless you keep it in a bag (though a number of people do use it without problems for wind-surfing, etc.) Yes, it can be adapted for cycling (I believe there's a bike mount, and a pedal/cadence accessory available).

The battery life does make it unsuitable for endurance-type athletes, but it's perfect for marathons.

ekevosu: Have you installed the latest firmware upgrades? I have mine set to lap at every mile, and then display the average pace per lap, and I find it very reliable.

By the way, in case it isn't obvious, I'm another convert! I think I would probably have been just as happy with a 305, but it's definitely a tidier looking watch. The Garmin Connect and motionbased upload sites have been very unreliable of late though, as they (Garmin) attempt to move the functionality from MB to GC. Current switchover date is end of December.

Krusty_Clown

depadz wrote: »

some options - usb battery pack, solar charger etc.
also came across a site once where some dude wired it up to a dynamo on his bike.

http://www.coolrunning.com.au/forums/index.php?showtopic=20312

As posted on the above thread, while the 405 is charging, the screen switches to a dedicated charging mode, which wouldn't be very useful when charging 'on the run'. It's still recording, just not displaying relevant info.

911sc

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

ekevosu: Have you installed the latest firmware upgrades? I have mine set to lap at every mile, and then display the average pace per lap, and I find it very reliable.

you seem to know your 405 quite well...
i just had a look at the Menu option, and i can see that now...thanks. I guess i need to play a bit more with mine. I was actually considering writing a small application to slipt the activites from the TCX file into laps based on either distance or time.

The other thing i would like to be able to do is to separate the running & biking history activities, involving some parsing & reformatting of the TCX file content.
Unless you know a way of doing this by setting up the 405?

I am aware of the Sport Mode options, but that can not be changed easily & quickly, say during T1/T2 of a duathlon.

ekevosu

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

ekevosu: Have you installed the latest firmware upgrades? I have mine set to lap at every mile, and then display the average pace per lap, and I find it very reliable.

Thanks Krusty, I'll have a look at the website and check if I'm up to date with the firmware. I press the lap button every so often to let me know what I'm doing for certain sections and have it to display the average overall pace as well which is fine. Its just that the pace as I'm running was working fine up to a couple of weeks ago but is mostly off now so I'm thinking theres something wrong with that function. Possibly if theres a firmware upgrade it'll fix it again or I might just take your idea of setting it to lap every mile.

Rusty Cogs 08

Can I ask if anyone got a particularly good deal on buying a 405, I'd probably spend a little more in a shop (returns etc) but if there's any good t'interweb deals I'd love to know.

Thanks

Peckham

Rusty Cogs 08 wrote: »

Can I ask if anyone got a particularly good deal on buying a 405, I'd probably spend a little more in a shop (returns etc) but if there's any good t'interweb deals I'd love to know.

Thanks

Likewise I'd be interested. Someone mentioned that had a good ebay source for them?

Spent my lunchtime reading reviews of 405 vs 305 on some discussion sites. Am now wondering if the 405 is worth the extra money, and may just go with the 305.

Racing Flat

Peckham wrote: »

Likewise I'd be interested. Someone mentioned that had a good ebay source for them?

Spent my lunchtime reading reviews of 405 vs 305 on some discussion sites. Am now wondering if the 405 is worth the extra money, and may just go with the 305.

Having the 305 and having found it excellent, if I was buying now I'd spend the extra for the 405. Reason - the size - while the 305 is very light, it is large enough, while the 405 is normal wirstwatch size. Charging it more often wouldn't be an issue for me as the most I ever intend to run is 2.59:p.

In terms of features, I only everuuse heart race and pace, don't use the compass or virtual race partners so those things wouldn't come into my decision if there was any difference.

ntlbell

I've been looking at ebay for 305's and 405's they seem to be a lot cheaper than the shops

still trying to decide on the 405 over the 305 405 has some really nice features but on the pricey side

thanks everyone for the tips!

Krusty_Clown

911sc wrote: »

you seem to know your 405 quite well...
i just had a look at the Menu option, and i can see that now...thanks. I guess i need to play a bit more with mine. I was actually considering writing a small application to slipt the activites from the TCX file into laps based on either distance or time.

The other thing i would like to be able to do is to separate the running & biking history activities, involving some parsing & reformatting of the TCX file content.
Unless you know a way of doing this by setting up the 405?

I am aware of the Sport Mode options, but that can not be changed easily & quickly, say during T1/T2 of a duathlon.

Self confessed gadget freak. Had read the manual online before ordering the watch.
As mentioned, you can auto-lap based on distance or location using the watch (not time). Splitting functionality isn't available in Garmin Connect, Training Centre or MotionBased (free subscription anyway). Sportstracks might have this functionality, but I have only started playing with it.

This thread on the MotionBased forum describes how to manually split your history into seperate activities. Easily scriptable, but you need to be able to identify a way to differentiate the two activities in the XML (maybe create a double lap, by pressing the lap button twice in succession?).

I don't think the sport mode does very much, though the 2.2 firmware did make training settings specific to a sport mode. So you could for example lap by mile in running mode, and lap by position in cycle mode (laps of a track?), however, you cannot have data fields specific to a sport mode (unless Garmin add it to a firmware update).

Krusty_Clown

ekevosu wrote: »

Thanks Krusty, I'll have a look at the website and check if I'm up to date with the firmware. I press the lap button every so often to let me know what I'm doing for certain sections and have it to display the average overall pace as well which is fine. Its just that the pace as I'm running was working fine up to a couple of weeks ago but is mostly off now so I'm thinking theres something wrong with that function. Possibly if theres a firmware upgrade it'll fix it again or I might just take your idea of setting it to lap every mile.

You can set it to lap every 'x' distance. So if you need it to lap more frequently, it's easily done. You should upgrade the firmware, as it contains fixes for a number of known issues, such as the watch going into powersave mode randomly. You can also manually switch off the auto powersave feature in the latest update, which is very handy for standing in the queue waiting for a race to start (you don't want the watch going into powersave, just as the race starts!).

Latest firmware is 2.30. You can update here. That link also contains a list of updates.

I used the lap pace for Longford, and it worked great. If I walked through a water station, I knew exactly what I needed to pick up for that mile in order to hit my target.

Peckham

Racing Flat wrote: »

Having the 305 and having found it excellent, if I was buying now I'd spend the extra for the 405. Reason - the size - while the 305 is very light, it is large enough, while the 405 is normal wirstwatch size.

This seems to be the one of the few reasons to buy a 405 over a 305. I currently have a 201 which is much bigger than the 305, and the size doesn't bother me at all...in fact, I think when people see me wearing it, they must think I'm a serious runner with serious technology!

The only other thing seems to be the wireless connectivity, which I can't see as being that useful.

Price will be the key factor in my decision.

Krusty_Clown

Peckham wrote: »

The only other thing seems to be the wireless connectivity, which I can't see as being that useful.

I'd be just as happy with a wired USB connection. Less fussy. I mean you have to connect it to via USB cable to charge it anyway (or a power socket), and in order to upload your data you have to be pretty close (20 feet) to the computer anyway. Can't ever see myself doing device to device data transfers.

I'd imagine the poor battery life is related to the fact that the ANT+ technology is always on (it's always listening for a connection to the PC, even in standby mode). Even if it only polls every 30 seconds, it's got to be a power hit. I'm not selling this very well, am I?!

911sc

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Easily scriptable, but you need to be able to identify a way to differentiate the two activities in the XML (maybe create a double lap, by pressing the lap button twice in succession?).

my idea is to create laps as i run a duathlon:
Run lap/T1 lap/Cycle lap/T2 lap/Run lap

All these laps will obviously be Running laps if 405 is set for Running Mode
Then filter this out based on lap average pace (sub 3min per km = cycling, above is running) to create
Run laps in Running Activity
Biking laps in Biking Activity
and throw the actual duathlon laps time in the Multisport Activity.

So, the overall total distance Run/Cycled is accurate .
and Duathlon history is kept.

It's just a bif of HTML parsing & re-formatting.

8kvscdpglqnyr4

I have this watch:
http://www.timex.co.uk/product_description.aspx?pid=62&id=74
It's a Timex Body Link and it's incredible.
The watch can do:
- Heart rate
- GPS for distance/speed

But these 2 features are independent. The GPS receiver it a seperate piece of equipement you can wear on your arm if you need to know your pace/speed/distance. So you can use it just as a HRM or just as a GPS device ... or the best part, just as a watch! The battery life for the watch is 10 years or something like that. I have mine 2 years now and I haven't had to change the battery in the watch. The battery in the GPS receiver is a single AA battery and lasts for 12 hours.

You can also log all your training and upload to Timex software or to Google Maps (or mapmyrun.com) via USB so you can share your training routes.

The watch has 100 laps of memory which is plenty for most. It's water proof to 50 or 100m ... I can't remember.

Racing Flat

Davina Repulsive Tannery wrote: »

I have this watch:
http://www.timex.co.uk/product_description.aspx?pid=62&id=74
It's a Timex Body Link and it's incredible.
The watch can do:
- Heart rate
- GPS for distance/speed

But these 2 features are independent. The GPS receiver it a seperate piece of equipement you can wear on your arm if you need to know your pace/speed/distance. So you can use it just as a HRM or just as a GPS device ... or the best part, just as a watch! The battery life for the watch is 10 years or something like that. I have mine 2 years now and I haven't had to change the battery in the watch. The battery in the GPS receiver is a single AA battery and lasts for 12 hours.

You can also log all your training and upload to Timex software or to Google Maps (or mapmyrun.com) via USB so you can share your training routes.

The watch has 100 laps of memory which is plenty for most. It's water proof to 50 or 100m ... I can't remember.

I concur. A great watch and very reasonably priced (can't remember exactly but around 100dollars. Only downside was that you have to wear the GPS receiver on your arm or shorts, that's why I changed to Garmin Forerunner, but otherwise it was great.

plodder

A couple of years ago, I got a cheap and cheerful watch from Argos, that had a 30 lap memory, which is all I was looking for. The strap broke on it recently, and it's the type that can't be replaced. So, I went looking for another one, but they don't seem to sell them anymore as far as I can see. Does anyone know where I could buy a watch like that (< €30 hopefully)? [edit] Never mind. Argos do sell them after all ...

ekevosu

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

You can set it to lap every 'x' distance. So if you need it to lap more frequently, it's easily done. You should upgrade the firmware, as it contains fixes for a number of known issues, such as the watch going into powersave mode randomly. You can also manually switch off the auto powersave feature in the latest update, which is very handy for standing in the queue waiting for a race to start (you don't want the watch going into powersave, just as the race starts!).

Latest firmware is 2.30. You can update here. That link also contains a list of updates.

I used the lap pace for Longford, and it worked great. If I walked through a water station, I knew exactly what I needed to pick up for that mile in order to hit my target.

I tried the lapping on last night's run and it was very useful allright so cheers for the tip. I obviously haven't been messing around with the various features enough. Just updated the software there, I was at 2.10 so 2.30 is probably a good leap and they mention pace issues.

Just a quick question if you don't mind. The system now reports the software as 2.30 but the gps as 2.10, is this right?

911sc

I did not know 2.30 was out already, just updated my 405 to 2.20 last month!
So, just update to sw to 2.30 , thanks.
GPS is v2.10, that's correct.

ekevosu

pacing issues seemed to be back to normal last night after run so the software update did the trick, so thanks for the advice. I hadn't realise garmin did updates for the watch.

Krusty_Clown

You need the updates, because, simply put, Garmin don't get it right the first time. Lots of bugs for the early adopters.

tdlynch

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

You need the updates, because, simply put, Garmin don't get it right the first time. Lots of bugs for the early adopters.

As someone who works in the software industry, it's not uncommon to release products with bugs. Some are clearly better than others, but the most important thing in my view is they provide fixes in a readily accessible form.

So thumbs up to Garmin for being so responsive and issuing regular upgrades.

Having said that, since the USB dongle has access to Garmin Connect, it should proactively check to see if there are upgrades rather than forcing us to check their website or read boards.ie. Not that I have any objection to reading this particular forum :-)

Krusty_Clown

tdlynch wrote: »

As someone who works in the software industry, it's not uncommon to release products with bugs. Some are clearly better than others, but the most important thing in my view is they provide fixes in a readily accessible form.

I work in the software Industry too (well, until tomorrow, anyway!), and even with bugs there is an expectation that a product be generally fit for purpose. The first batch of shipped products were so poor, I'd estimate that they had a return rate of approx. 30%, based on posts on their forum, consisting of problems where the watch would inexplicably turn off during training (a costly mistake!). At the end of the day though, this is my 4th Garmin product, and I'm a happy customer.

Norden08

I would recommed to get SUUNTO Watch (www.suunto.com). They have great selection for different needs. I have T4 with heart rate monitor and GPS. you can also get bike or shoe pods, but found those unnecessary because of the GPS.

I've had it approx 6 months now and the battery warning started yesterday so I would say battery life is great. Also the fact that you can change your battery yourself is a great plus as you might not always get to the shop to do it.

Highly recommended!!

englishe

I have a garmin 405 and have only used it a couple of times.
Can't figure it out,if anyone wants to buy it drop me an email
to a1000b4idie@yahoo.co.uk

Rusty Cogs 08

Interested, Just mailed you