Where to now for Kingdom?

longfordjames

I cant see Murphy Darragh Tomas Griffin Sheehan Galvin Donaghy or Russell going back.Does any else feel they will be lucky to make the last 8?

Culchie

longfordjames wrote: »

I cant see Murphy Darragh Tomas Griffin Sheehan Galvin Donaghy or Russell going back.Does any else feel they will be lucky to make the last 8?

exactly how many pints have you had?

ffs Kerry is an institution, a conveyor belt of talent. The king is dead, long live the king etc etc....

K-9

Did you think this with 5 minutes to go before McConnell made his save?

To put Galvin and Donaghy on that list is ridiculous. This season could well be the making of Galvin.

I remember a certain Cooper being criticised as too light in 2003! They where right of course! :pac:

CyberDave

Kerry a born winners and will always learn from their defeats. This defeat will hurt them, but will also act as a huge motivating factor for next year. They will come back stronger. I don't think any of those players you mentioned will have any intention of calling it a day. I think you might be getting carried away on the Tyrone rollercoaster.

K-9

One thing, too much was expected of Walsh in his first AI Final!

dats_right

Where to know for Kingdom?

I'd say booking hotel rooms in Dublin for the 3rd weekend in September again, the same way they have for the last 5 finals and 7 out of the last 9!

DDC1990

Ha Donaghy and Galvin go! Not on your life. It wouldn't surprise me if no-one retired... even Darragh might come back for another crack at Tyrone. :P
But if i were a betting man, Diamuid Murphy, Tom O'Sullivan, Darragh Ó Sé, Tommy Griffin, Mike Frank Russell and Eoin Brosnan (hopefully)

homerjay2005

same sh*te every year when somebody looses a final, they crap and all this bla bla bla. irish people are so fickle and narrow minded it is unbelievable. the sunday game were also a joke last night. this game was in the melting pot with 1 minute to go, there was a single point in it. Declan sullivan had the chance to win the game with 4 minutes to go. kerry could have won this game, tyrone got a lucky goal, which won them the game. all of a sudden, kerry are useless and their players, that have 2,3,4 or even 5 medals in their pocket are useless.

darragh will retire, massive loss yes. apart from Tom Sullivan, i cant see anybody of the starting 15 leaving. look at the players that have been on the sideline all year. this kerry team aint going anywhere.

dats_right

homerjay2005 wrote: »

kerry could have won this game, tyrone got a lucky goal, which won them the game.

But, Kerry didn't win the game nor did they deserve to. I think Tyrone upping a gear in the final few minutes and Kerry having absolutely no response to it is what won Tyrone the game. Saying it was a 'lucky goal' is just sour grapes, the better team won-plain and simple.

kerry4sam

longfordjames wrote: »

I cant see Murphy Darragh Tomas Griffin Sheehan Galvin Donaghy or Russell going back.Does any else feel they will be lucky to make the last 8?

this really is not the time for speculation ... right now the only player that we know of that won't be playing for Kerry next year is Eoin Brosnan (who has announced he will be taking a year out) ... after that then I don't think we should write any player off just yet ...

Kerry will always be there or there abouts with the conveyorbelt we have in this county and remember the players who lined out yesterday all had to start somewhere at some point in history ... plenty of talent in the Kingdom; plenty scope for improvement; and plenty men willing an able to hold their own against the kerry 'stalwarts' ... Only one player leaving at this point in time; think it is best to leave it at that for now.

Let them re-group and come to terms with the All-Ireland Final 2008 which was afterall, only yesterday

aidan24326

longfordjames wrote: »

I cant see Murphy Darragh Tomas Griffin Sheehan Galvin Donaghy or Russell going back.Does any else feel they will be lucky to make the last 8?

Galvin? Donaghy? Tomas O'Se? Lucky to make the last 8? Methinks you havin' a laugh Longford man!!

premierstone

longfordjames wrote: »

I cant see Murphy Darragh Tomas Griffin Sheehan Galvin Donaghy or Russell going back.Does any else feel they will be lucky to make the last 8?

Either a wind up or somone who lost a packet on Kerry imo

Tomthepost

Hopefully Dara will stay on. A year at fullback would be interesting.
No idea if we have a keeper coming through of a good enough quality but I would like to see
2: M O Se
3 D O Se
4: D Bohane
5: T O Se
6: A O Mahony (The pre - 08 version)
7: K Young
8: T Walsh
9: D Moran
10: P Galvin
11: Dec O Sullivan
12 Darren O Sullivan
13 Gooch
14: Star
15: BJ Walsh

homerjay2005

put brian sheehan back into goals and leave him take the long range frees. sorted.

other than that, we have got cremin now to take over from murphy and dont fotget mac an tsaor, this years u-21 winnin keeper. a class act.

CyberDave

Tomthepost wrote: »

Hopefully Dara will stay on. A year at fullback would be interesting.
No idea if we have a keeper coming through of a good enough quality but I would like to see
2: M O Se
3 D O Se
4: D Bohane
5: T O Se
6: A O Mahony (The pre - 08 version)
7: K Young
8: T Walsh
9: D Moran
10: P Galvin
11: Dec O Sullivan
12 Darren O Sullivan
13 Gooch
14: Star
15: BJ Walsh

Good lineup. Don't know about Dara O'Sé at full-back though.

aidan24326

Tomthepost wrote: »

Hopefully Dara will stay on. A year at fullback would be interesting.
No idea if we have a keeper coming through of a good enough quality but I would like to see
2: M O Se
3 D O Se
4: D Bohane
5: T O Se
6: A O Mahony (The pre - 08 version)
7: K Young
8: T Walsh
9: D Moran
10: P Galvin
11: Dec O Sullivan
12 Darren O Sullivan
13 Gooch
14: Star
15: BJ Walsh

That team would do the business alright, and it only shows that Kerry have the players to be at or near the top of the pile again next year.

BJ Walsh looks a good prospect and is a big lad, so the step up shouldn't be a problem for him physically. He's a bit static though and will need to work alot harder to win posession at senior level. Brosnan is taking a year out but won't be much of a loss anyway, and Sheehan just doesn't bring enough to the mix to warrant a starting place, even his placekicking let him down yesterday. No harm to have him on the bench though, he'd always be another option.

I'd imagine MFR will call it a day, maybe Darragh O'Se aswell, and Tom O'Sullivan just isn't dependable enough to play full back. Other than that Kerry will have more or less the same team/squad with a few minor adjustments.

homerjay2005

i would like this team -

K Cremin

M O Shea
T Griffan
P Reidy

T O Shea
A O Mahony
K Young

S Scanlon
D Moran

P Galvin
D O Sullivan
Darran O Sullivan

C Cooper
K Donaghy
T Walsh

Het-Field

Kerry will be back with a vengence next year. Remember in 2006 after they were considered to be finished, remember in 2008 when Tyrone were considered to be over the hill ?

I rest my case

Colm R

Unfortunately because Kerry lost yesterday, this could be the worst thing for my own county - Cork.

If Kerry won yesterday, some of the hunger might have evapourated but now its all about vengance.

I bet Kerry will be shouting for Tyrone in every match next year up to the final just so they get a chance to get back at them.

Worst thing Kerry could do now is sack Pat O'Shea. Although from my perspective, that could be the best thing.

plasmaguy

Kerry were given too much respect in the last two years as they always are by Southern teams come AI final day. The Northern teams rightly don't give Kerry any respect and that's where the difference is and how they can beat Kerry.

Definately far greater mental toughness up the north than down here, psychologically the northern teams don't wet their pants when they face Kerry in Croke Park like Mayo, Cork, Dublin, etc. do.

The key to beating Kerry for the southern teams is to give them no respect as Cork have done when they nearly beat them. If you stand back from Gooch, Donnghy, O'Mahoney, O'She, they will run the game. If you get in their face and under their skin, they aren't so great.

Waylander

plasmaguy wrote: »

Kerry were given too much respect in the last two years as they always are by Southern teams come AI final day. The Northern teams rightly don't give Kerry any respect and that's where the difference is and how they can beat Kerry.

Definately far greater mental toughness up the north than down here, psychologically the northern teams don't wet their pants when they face Kerry in Croke Park like Mayo, Cork, Dublin, etc. do.

The key to beating Kerry for the southern teams is to give them no respect as Cork have done when they nearly beat them. If you stand back from Gooch, Donnghy, O'Mahoney, O'She, they will run the game. If you get in their face and under their skin, they aren't so great.

No they just met averagre teams for the last two years, where as this year they met a good team. Tyrone are streets ahead of both Cork and Mayo, despite what some deluded people were posting on this forum not so long ago.

And to listen to Kerry fans calling for Pat O sheas head, or despondently saying they are out of the running next year shame on you. Pat O Shea has won 1 All Ireland and been a narrowly beaten finalist in another, that is a pretty good record for only being in charge 2 years. You chased Jack O Connor away for similar reasons,l keep going you will find noone wants the job, then it wont matter about any conveyor belt.

Nalced_irl

Waylander wrote: »

No they just met averagre teams for the last two years, where as this year they met a good team. Tyrone are streets ahead of both Cork and Mayo, despite what some deluded people were posting on this forum not so long ago.

And to listen to Kerry fans calling for Pat O sheas head, or despondently saying they are out of the running next year shame on you. Pat O Shea has won 1 All Ireland and been a narrowly beaten finalist in another, that is a pretty good record for only being in charge 2 years. You chased Jack O Connor away for similar reasons,l keep going you will find noone wants the job, then it wont matter about any conveyor belt.

This is the usual post AI defeat kinda thread. People tend to over react, decide the team is dead, nothing positive for the future etc, but Kerry will go on as they always have and im sure you will see them lifting Sam again within the next few years.

helpisontheway

Tomthepost wrote: »

Hopefully Dara will stay on. A year at fullback would be interesting.
No idea if we have a keeper coming through of a good enough quality but I would like to see
2: M O Se
3 D O Se
4: D Bohane
5: T O Se
6: A O Mahony (The pre - 08 version)
7: K Young
8: T Walsh
9: D Moran
10: P Galvin
11: Dec O Sullivan
12 Darren O Sullivan
13 Gooch
14: Star
15: BJ Walsh

1:T Mac Tsaoir
2: M O Se
3: T Griffin
4: D Bohane
5: T O Se
6: A O Mahony
7: K Young
8: T Walsh
9: D Moran
10: P Galvin[We could see an even better player in 2009]
11: Dec O Sullivan
12 Darren O Sullivan
13 Gooch
14: Star
15: P Curran[BJ Walsh needs another year]

What are the chances of the O Se boy from Mayo moving to Kerry??:D Hopefully the AFL wont snap him up!

AKK

plasmaguy wrote: »

Kerry were given too much respect in the last two years as they always are by Southern teams come AI final day. The Northern teams rightly don't give Kerry any respect and that's where the difference is and how they can beat Kerry.

Definately far greater mental toughness up the north than down here, psychologically the northern teams don't wet their pants when they face Kerry in Croke Park like Mayo, Cork, Dublin, etc. do.

The key to beating Kerry for the southern teams is to give them no respect as Cork have done when they nearly beat them. If you stand back from Gooch, Donnghy, O'Mahoney, O'She, they will run the game. If you get in their face and under their skin, they aren't so great.

Maybe it'd be better for football if other teams concentrated on ways to improve their skills rather than resort to such tactics? Which I presume would come under the buzzword 'cynical'? I think it takes somewhat from Tyrone's victory to suggest getting in Kerry's face is the only way to take them on. Play better football and you'll beat them. Funny how when some teams get under players skin it's a great thing and 'psychologically' strong- when others do it, it's cynical. What ever happened to fair play?

Flukey

A lot of that Kerry team will be around next year. Kerry never go away. As for cynical, Kerry can do it with the best of them. Some of the Kerry lads thought the match was over in the first, as they seemed to want to take the Tyrone lads shirts from them. One thing noticeable in terms of being in cynical is that not a single Kerry player got cramp in the last 5 minutes of the game, as they so often do. If they were up by two points coming into those last few minutes there would have been the usual outbreak of cramp. They must actually train for their cramp and practice it very hard. They are brilliant at getting it in the last few minutes, except yesterday. If you want to use up a bit of time near the end of the match, then stay on your feet and get the ball and move it forward and get a score. That's a far more effective and less cynical way of holding the other team at bay.

blackbelt

Flukey wrote: »

A lot of that Kerry team will be around next year. Kerry never go away. As for cynical, Kerry can do it with the best of them. Some of the Kerry lads thought the match was over in the first, as they seemed to want to take the Tyrone lads shirts from them. One thing noticeable in terms of being in cynical is that not a single Kerry player got cramp in the last 5 minutes of the game, as they so often do. If they were up by two points coming into those last few minutes there would have been the usual outbreak of cramp. They must actually train for their cramp and practice it very hard. They are brilliant at getting it in the last few minutes, except yesterday. If you want to use up a bit of time near the end of the match, then stay on your feet and get the ball and move it forward and get a score. That's a far more effective and less cynical way of holding the other team at bay.

Your points are valid and correct in my view but with my mod hat on,I just want to warn you and Kerry posters not to get involved in a heavy argument here.I have tried to put myself in Kerry fans shoes and posts like this are very disheartening for fans who are down in the dumps.

Keep it constructive guys.No cheap kicks below the belt please.

Flukey

Dublin can now claim to be the second best team in the country. Tyrone had to beat us enroute to winning their All-Ireland and although it is 13 years ago, we are the last team to beat Tyrone in an All-Ireland final.

Erin Go Brath

longfordjames wrote: »

I cant see Murphy Darragh Tomas Griffin Sheehan Galvin Donaghy or Russell going back.Does any else feel they will be lucky to make the last 8?

Yes, Kerry will never be seen again. :pac: Hello they've been in 5 finals in a row, and i suspect they'll be installed as favourites for next years Sam when the bookies start laying bets.

Flukey

They will be back. The interesting thing now will be what is thought of the current Kerry team. In the last few weeks we heard a lot about the team having to prove themselves by not just winning the 3 in a row, but by beating Tyrone. If they did, they were going to be regarded as one of the best teams ever. So given that they didn't do it, how are they going to be regarded now in Kerry?

Will it cost Pat O'Shea his job? Anything but an All-Ireland win is always seen as a failure, so Kerry managers that lose finals don't last long, even if they have won others, like in the case of Jack O'Connor. Other counties retain "losing" managers and they often go on to success. Even Mickey Harte's job was looking unsure a few months ago, but they held on to him. Seán Boylan was a few years in the job before he began to deliver. No Kerry manager would be given that long. Even with a wealth of talent they have and their tradition and great expectations, a Kerry manager shouldn't be regarded as a failure if he doesn't win an All-Ireland. There are probably a few great Kerry managers that never were, because they were not given a long enough time to prove it.

Agus

helpisontheway wrote: »

1:T Mac Tsaoir
2: M O Se
3: T Griffin
4: D Bohane
5: T O Se
6: A O Mahony
7: K Young
8: T Walsh
9: D Moran
10: P Galvin[We could see an even better player in 2009]
11: Dec O Sullivan
12 Darren O Sullivan
13 Gooch
14: Star
15: P Curran[BJ Walsh needs another year]

What are the chances of the O Se boy from Mayo moving to Kerry??:D Hopefully the AFL wont snap him up!

A good team. My only change would be that even if Darragh Ó Sé does go I would prefer to see Séamus Scanlon or Griffin starting at midfield. Scanlon has had a fine year and Waslh / Moran would be a pretty inexperienced midfield pairing - would prefer to see one of them in forwards ahead of Curran who may be an option off the bench if he recovers well from his injury.

O'Shea of Mayo is a good player all right - Kerry would prob have won the minor semi in the first game if he had been playing for the county of his birth!

helpisontheway

Agus wrote: »

A good team. My only change would be that even if Darragh Ó Sé does go I would prefer to see Séamus Scanlon or Griffin starting at midfield. Scanlon has had a fine year and Waslh / Moran would be a pretty inexperienced midfield pairing - would prefer to see one of them in forwards ahead of Curran who may be an option off the bench if he recovers well from his injury.

O'Shea of Mayo is a good player all right - Kerry would prob have won the minor semi in the first game if he had been playing for the county of his birth!

Id agree Scanlon has had a fine year but is he really an out and out midfielder.He is a workhorse and works well with Dara but i think there are better footballers in the county who could do the same job!Both Walsh and Moran can field,run and score.They can only gain experience by playing.They are the long term future.

As a matter of interest can that O Shea boy play for Kerry if he wanted to? If he moved back to Kerry or something?
I know we are greedy!!!:D

sslazio11

I heard the argument for Dara O'Se at full-back a few times over the last couple of days, but I'm not sure how well it would work. He'd do well against the likes of Cussen, but against someone like Sean Kavanagh I don't think he's be nearly as effective. Anyway, I don't think you could ever know what Dara will decide. At a guess, I'd say he'll pack it in, 14 years is a long time to be playing intercounty football.

I think Eoin Brosnan will probably call it a day, he's newly married, and has an extremely busy solicitor's practice in Killarney. As for whoever said that he'd "hopefully" go away, are you really a Kerry football fan? The guy has been very effective for Kerry over the last 7 years, and was fantastic against Dublin in the semi-final last year.

This year wasn't a great year for him, but he was an excellent impact sub against Monaghan, Galway and Cork. That's probably his best role, and it's a pity he wasn't used that way on Sunday, where his hard-running style could have been really effective in the last 20 minutes.

Maybe Diarmuid Murphy will retire, either way I think Kieran Cremin will probably be no.1 next year. Can't see too many other retirements apart than that.

The only thing that's certain is that Kerry will have a major say in who wins next year's championship. In the last 7 years, Kerry have either won the All-Ireland or been beaten by the eventual winners, and I think next year will be no different

plasmaguy

O'She is and was a great midfielder, but usually against relatively static midfields like the Cork midfield. I don't think there is a better fielder of the ball in the country than Darragh O'She, but while that's important, when you have very mobile midfielders like Tyrones, then O'Shes advantage is gone.

I think a lot of teams will have learned a lot from Sunday's final about how to beat Kerry. You don't put in a big 6ft4 midfielder against O'She, you put in two young mobile midfielders who will run the legs off him up and down the pitch.

Shurwhynot

K Cremin/B Kealy

C O'Mahoney
M O'Se
P Reidy

T O Shea
A O Mahony
K Young

A O'Sullivan
D Moran

P Galvin
D O Sullivan
Darran O Sullivan

C Cooper
K Donaghy
T Walsh

Agus

helpisontheway wrote: »

Id agree Scanlon has had a fine year but is he really an out and out midfielder.He is a workhorse and works well with Dara but i think there are better footballers in the county who could do the same job!Both Walsh and Moran can field,run and score.They can only gain experience by playing.They are the long term future.

As a matter of interest can that O Shea boy play for Kerry if he wanted to? If he moved back to Kerry or something?
I know we are greedy!!!:D

Point taken and Curran, Walsh and Moran are certainly the long term future. In terms of 2009 though I would still question whether Paddy Curran will be ready to do a better job up front than Scanlon at midfield. I suppose it's slightly pointless to speculate about possible midfields though till we know for sure about Darragh Ó Sé (and Griffin) retiring!

I presume O'Shea could play for Kerry if he moved back to the county, but somehow I doubt the Maigh Eo lads would want to give him back!:D

Agus

Shurwhynot wrote: »

K Cremin/B Kealy

C O'Mahoney
M O'Se
P Reidy

T O Shea
A O Mahony
K Young

A O'Sullivan
D Moran

P Galvin
D O Sullivan
Darran O Sullivan

C Cooper
K Donaghy
T Walsh

C O'Mahoney??

longfordjames

I never said they wouldnt be a threat but no minor win this decade and the likely retirements of russel etc. they surely wont be that good?

Agus

Only time will tell James so we don't really know yet, but I wouldn't be too gloomy. Other than Tyrone, minor titles haven't really been any guarantee of senior success in recent years. Kerry minors have been reaching semi-finals and finals without quite getting an AI. The under-21s won this year with a team full of talent and there have been a number of very good players coming up. There may be one or two retirements on they way but there should still ll be some very good options. Russelll is not a compelling example by the way, given he didn't get a minute's action all champiionship! And at the end of the day the average age of this year's team is only twenty-five and a half. There's no reason why Kerry standards should fall.

Shurwhynot

Colin O'Mahony corner back on the under 21's this year. Just missed out on the senior panel

plasmaguy

It's difficult to know if any of the Kerry lads will retire...all of those guys have such a hunger and would play until they had to be carried from the field....

Darragh O'Se is written off every year as being over the hill and ready to retire...but comes out in the summer every year as good as ever...

Against Cork and other big, static midfields, he is usually quite good. But up against more mobile midfielders who can actually play football and kick points, he suffers.

I would say he will be back next year as will most of the others. There is always something to prove for Kerry footballers, team of the decade, revenge against Tyrone, winning another medal, proving you are one of the greats...the pull for these players to give it one more go is usually more than the push for them to retire.

Old_-_School

Minors aren't a great indicator of success as a previous poster said.
From 1966 to 1974 Kerry won just one Munster minor title and 0 All-Irelands with Cork winning all the rest including 4 All-Irelands, so in 1975 you might have thought the future of Kerry football was bleak! Kerry have gained many senior players from All-Ireland winning U21 however.

Of the '95 and '96 All-Ireland U21 team: Diarmuid Murphy, Darragh Ó Sé, Dara Ó Cinneide, Mike Hassett, Liam Hassett, Denis O'Dwyer, Barry O'Shea, Donal Daly, William Kirby, John Crowley and Killian Burns all won Senior All-Ireland medals.

From the '98 All-Ireland winning team: Tom O'Sullivan, Mike McCarthy, Tomás Ó Sé, Aodhan MacGearailt, Noel Kennelly, Tommmy Griffin, Eamonn Fitzmaurice and Mike Frank Russell did likewise.
That's 19 from 2 teams. And that's 19 players that have won All-Ireland finals from starting the finals, not just making up the panel.

It wouldn't be too much to expect that 6 or 7 of this year's U21 will make the cut at senior as well. Tommy Walsh, David Moran and Killian Young are the first three. David Moran and Tommy Walsh are still underage again next year. Anthony O'Sullivan was probably the best player for the U21s this year although Killian Young actually got the award (public vote). Darragh Ó Sé said he wouldn't retire and going by his first half perforance he shouldn't. Management should use him sparingly in the league next to prevent burn-out and maybe realise he's no longer a 70 minute player.

My team for next year would be....
Tomás Mac An Tsaoir,
Padraig Reidy, Tom O'Sullivan, Marc O Se
Killian Young, Aidan O'Mahony, Tomas O Se
Darragh O Se, ??? (1 from Griffin, Quirke, Scanlon, Moran)
Paul Galvin, Declan O'Sullivan, Tommy Walsh
Colm Cooper, Kieran Donaghy, Darren O'Sullivan

I think if this team had started last Sunday, Kerry would have done a lot better.

Agus

Shurwhynot wrote: »

Colin O'Mahony corner back on the under 21's this year. Just missed out on the senior panel

Ah, THAT O'Mahony of course. Don't know how I couldn't think who it was... It would be a surprise if he was first-choice corner-back next year but he was impressive enough alright in the Under-21s.