Heyman article

Vince135792003

I'm posting it in it's entirety as I think it's worth a read. I'd echo some of the same feelings he has about the show but what is everyone elses thoughts?

An audience of one

by PAUL HEYMAN

Published: 19 Sep 2008

THERE is going to come a time, and it needs to be sooner rather than later, when the professional wrestling industry realises we've reached that dreaded recurring period in history.

That time when one generation is moving on to other forms of entertainment and a new generation needs to be enticed to sign on and join the "sports entertainment fan" culture.

When the era of the territorial local stars gave way to the Hulkamaniacs, a new generation of fans replaced the older ones.

When the Hulkamaniacs started chasing girls or went off to college, the new era of Attitude and nWo and ECW came into vogue.

When that genre of sports entertainment ran its course, some of the fans stayed on, and a different crowd, attracted by new hot young stars like John Cena replenished the ranks.

That's why Cena is such a polarising figure with today's crowd.

Half the audience - who were probably fans in the pre-Cena era - hate him.

The other half, a younger crowd probably lured into watching the product specifically because of new characters like Cena, think he's the embodiment of a new generation of professional wrestling.

That's the generational divide, and it's now even affecting the Cena crowd.


World Wrestling Entertainment

WWE is especially at the crossroads. Their United States PPV revenue has not grown by any noticeable margin and while the international PPV, live event, and merchandising sales have picked up the slack, the core product itself has grown terribly stale.

Raw, for example, is just an over-produced, plodding show. Even the good episodes tend to drag right now.

This is not a knock on the "PG-themed" WWE. The days of dangerous stunts and unprotected chair shots are over, especially in a concussion-conscious, post-Benoit pro wrestling industry.

Yes, believe it or not, this Extreme Promoter understands the limitations in today's environment of the style he popularised.

However, that doesn't mean the show can't be fast-paced and exciting to watch.

Nothing feels young and vibrant. Even Ted DiBiase Jnr and Cody Rhodes, who are in their early 20s and are already fantastic in their roles, have haircuts and ring attire that can be worn by people in their mid-30s.

Randy Orton? Best young talent in the industry today, and yet if he were 40 years old, he'd wear the same clothes and style.


Even when WWE ushers in a youth movement, it's negated by the fact that no one in WWE appears to be playing to a younger audience.

The reason is because too many people inside the organisation are not concerned with the reaction of the ticket buying crowd, they're instead trying to solely appease WWE chairman Vince McMahon.

A few years ago, Vince came to the creative team and said: "What band should open WrestleMania?"

All sorts of names were floated around, none of them that would help brand WWE as being on the cutting edge.

When I suggested System Of A Down, only one other member of the creative team even knew the band I was suggesting.

I would submit to you that if WWE wants to attract a new generation of fans, they need to understand what's moving pop culture today, and who is on the horizon for tomorrow.

In the same light, how is a roomful of people who only understand what it takes to avoid Vince's irritability going to pitch ideas that break through today's Attention Deficit Disorder viewing habits?

How is a group that as a whole is trained to shift gears the moment Vince doesn't relate to the concept going to be able to introduce a new, youth-oriented movement?

If WWE wants to truly shake up the system, here's a suggestion...

Find three people within the ranks who can identify with today's youth, or who at least keep up to date on the trends.

If someone says "The Jonas Brothers are hot," show them the door.


The Jonas Brothers may get 17 gazillion views on their MySpace or Facebook pages, but they don't appeal to a male audience.

What would it hurt for Vince to sit down with Rey Mysterio and say: "Come back to me in a week with an outline for the top three storylines all the way to Royal Rumble."

How can it be bad for Vince to offer someone like The Miz, who obviously keeps his finger on the pulse of today's contemporary beat, and offer him a small bonus to come with new ideas for names, instead of this moronic, counter-productive movement to rip-off other genres like Kenny Dykstra and Dolph Diggler.

Why not go out on a limb and try some creativity and unique branding so the audience can really get behind someone as their own?

Is it inconceivable that Cody Rhodes or John Morrison would have some suggestions on how to spruce up a new persona with some creative fashion designs?

Once Vince gets some ideas from Rey or the Miz or whomever, then he can take these ideas to the creative team and challenge them, indeed charge them with embellishing on the new, youthful, non-traditional concepts.

The problem is that WWE, from the conception to the implementation of all ideas is in a rut because everything is based on AN AUDIENCE OF ONE.

And that "one" is Vince McMahon.

Get some ideas from people who don't know what Vince likes and doesn't like and you may just get an opinion that shakes up the system.

Otherwise how is the current stagnant product going to evolve into a fun commodity to watch and follow and spend money on?

What's the catalyst that's going to usher in some new wave of WWE Universe-friendly fandom? Everything in the current system is "in the box".

Time to go outside that box, rope in some really radically different, exhilarating concepts and pour that WWE magical promotional formula all over it...

And end this era of the yawnfest that has now become today's product.

Bubs101

How can it be bad for Vince to offer someone like The Miz, who obviously keeps his finger on the pulse of today's contemporary beat, and offer him a small bonus to come with new ideas for names, instead of this moronic, counter-productive movement to rip-off other genres like Kenny Dykstra and Dolph Diggler.

Great minds think alike.

Mr.Nice Guy

Very good read. I think he's spot on with a lot of that. I think the thing about Vince McMahon is that the WWE will need to be in very poor shape for him to countenance a change of direction and even with the recent Raw rating I doubt we will see anything like that any time soon.

Otis Driftwood

Heyman = Genius

Will any of his above sentiments be acted upon?Unfortunatly,me thinks not.

rovert

Man, Paul can play the internet like a violin.

krudler

Good read, its such a pity that Vince has been surrounded by yes men despite saying he hates that, not to say the WWE doesnt get things right,when they do they're untouchable, but as Heyman said theres only one fan that matters and that Vince himself, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in a production meeting just to see whats going on in there

ShawnRaven

Let it go Heyman, seriously. Who'd take business advice from this jackoff who ran his own company into the ground?

If Heyman took over WWE tomorrow, they'd lose all their TV deals and none of the talent wouldn't be paid before the following weekend came around!

VR!

the flananator

To be fair Heyman isn't suggesting that WWE should change its business model, what he's saying is that WWE has some serious branding issues that need to be addressed. And Heyman has been very successful in building one particular brand name in the past; ECW. So I would say that whatever advice Heyman can give your on the branding of your product should be listened to at least. In this case, I'd agree with him too.

ShawnRaven

the flananator wrote: »

And Heyman has been very successful in building one particular brand name in the past; ECW. So I would say that whatever advice Heyman can give your on the branding of your product should be listened to at least. In this case, I'd agree with him too.

Not strictly true, he took Smackdown out of the crapper too at one point as well. I'm not disputing the fact that he has a great mind for the workings of pro wrestling, he does. But him trying to give Vince McMahon advice on how to keep a product fresh, it's just something i find quite laughable really. Considering the original ECW relied on the same garbage wrestling for four years.

VR!

rizzla

If you look at ECW from when it started to when it finished there was a good bit of progression but it still kept it's core values.

A product shouldn't change every year and 4 years of a similar product being shown is not that bad in a grand scheme of things. The current state of WWE does need to evolve in some way and his idea's of giving people who have more of an idea of what the youth of today like more creative input is not a bad idea.

the flananator

validreasoning! wrote: »

Not strictly true, he took Smackdown out of the crapper too at one point as well. I'm not disputing the fact that he has a great mind for the workings of pro wrestling, he does. But him trying to give Vince McMahon advice on how to keep a product fresh, it's just something i find quite laughable really. Considering the original ECW relied on the same garbage wrestling for four years.

VR!

Just so we're clear; I'm not a Heyman mark. ECW stagnated horribly towards the end, but the opinion of wrestling experts seems to be that this was mostly down to Heyman's financial mismanagement leading to problems involving the defection of talent, loss of TV deals etc. etc. Its hard to stay cutting edge as a writer when you've got as many head-aches as Heyman had. WWE writers and most bookers down through the generations don't/haven't had to worry about a company's finances, if they did this would distract them from nurturing their creativity. Unfortunetly this is a luxury Heyman didn't have. And he has only himself to blame for that. Buts thats not my point.

My point is that he created a brand that people still loved long after its demise. The Rise and Fall of ECW was one of the biggest selling wrestling DVDs ever. The First ONS did a very respectable PPV number for the time, and also for the lack of storyline build and anticipation going into it. But the ECW brand, which Heyman is responsible for creating, carryed both these projects to success. In this article, he makes a constructive critiscism about WWE's branding technique. I think his critiscism is worth listening to.

ShawnRaven

rizzla wrote: »

If you look at ECW from when it started to when it finished there was a good bit of progression but it still kept it's core values.

I'd disagree with a lot of that. It progressed from 93-97 when changing over from Eastern to Extreme, but to me, it seemed like they'd used up all their ideas by that point and everything else was just a rehash. Not saying WWE or WCW didn't fall into that trap either, the latter fell into it on a regular basis, eventually playing a part in it's demise, while the former are still doing it, yet are being smart about it.

A product shouldn't change every year and 4 years of a similar product being shown is not that bad in a grand scheme of things. The current state of WWE does need to evolve in some way and his idea's of giving people who have more of an idea of what the youth of today like more creative input is not a bad idea.

This i can't disagree with, it just seems hilarious that Heyman of all people is the one saying this. I also think that Heyman is singing to the choir, I'm pretty sure Vince knows all of this as it is, he's not stupid. But Vince has nothing in the way of competition, so he could put out a turd week after week and people will still watch, if not out of interest, out of force of habit.

VR!

ShawnRaven

the flananator wrote: »

Just so we're clear; I'm not a Heyman mark. ECW stagnated horribly towards the end, but the opinion of wrestling experts seems to be that this was mostly down to Heyman's financial mismanagement leading to problems involving the defection of talent, loss of TV deals etc. etc. Its hard to stay cutting edge as a writer when you've got as many head-aches as Heyman had. WWE writers and most bookers down through the generations don't/haven't had to worry about a company's finances, if they did this would distract them from nurturing their creativity. Unfortunetly this is a luxury Heyman didn't have. And he has only himself to blame for that. Buts thats not my point.

But it is my point though. Heyman wasn't a businessman, he never was, and never will be. In fact, he'll probably admit this himself! But you've definitely hit the nail on the head. ECW failed for two big reasons in my honest opinion, bad financial management, and lack of ideas because ECW blew their load in their first three years. Heyman tried to be something he wasn't, and it caught up with him.

My point is that he created a brand that people still loved long after its demise. The Rise and Fall of ECW was one of the biggest selling wrestling DVDs ever. The First ONS did a very respectable PPV number for the time, and also for the lack of storyline build and anticipation going into it. But the ECW brand, which Heyman is responsible for creating, carryed both these projects to success. In this article, he makes a constructive critiscism about WWE's branding technique. I think his critiscism is worth listening to.

Heyman is not fully responsible for the success of those, Vince had his hand and if you actually believe otherwise, then you're fooling yourself. Vince, along with Heyman resurrected the ECW name in 2005 because they both knew they'd make money from it, and they did. The second it started losing money (at the end of 2006), Vince pulled the plug on it.

But when you look at it, where's Vince now, and where's Heyman now? It's not a black and white case of Vince being a puppet master. Heyman's last bright idea (Decmember to Dismember) is what has him where he is now, another reason why I don't fully agree with this part of your post.

VR!

flahavaj

rovert wrote: »

Man, Paul can play the internet like a violin.

Then you are the instrument of his searching, music playing, melody tuning, arpeggio making, string seeking long fingers. Because you are that internet 24/7 internet community seeking, have no life, lonely existence community you so hypocritically condemn family he reaches to.

You laughing at the internet is like a cancer patient pulling the life support of his face in anger.

Hypocritical and ultimately futile.

That bright light outside the window today was the last vestiges of the summer, rovert. You should have paid heed to it. Spending 18 hours day tapping at at your computer with your chubby little fingers is socially unhealthy . Next you'll be falling in love with some Aussie bloke off the internet and moving abroad. **** the loss like.:pac::pac:

flahavaj

In fairness now, VR, that whole article does nothing but bitch about the current WWE product. Which is exactly what you've been doing for the last few months.

So maybe you should agree with Paul E for once.

Just saying. Birds of a feather and all that.:D

Vince135792003

flahavaj wrote: »

In fairness now, VR, that whole article does nothing but bitch about the current WWE product. Which is exactly what you've been doing for the last few months.

That thought occurred to me too.

Cactus Col

Basically what heyman is saying that WWE should try harder to attract a younger audience and active wrestlers should have some say in the creative side of things?

Hardly news. He's just about repeating what people have been saying for years.

What Heyman doesn't mention is that inbetween the Hulkamaniac era and the Attitude era, we had the New Generation. That's where I feel we are now; in that transitionary period where yesterdays stars are finally disappearing, and the stars of tomorrow are cutting their teeth. The WWE rosters are loaded with potential, a lot of youngsters have been making their debuts. They finally have a handle on ECW, Smackdown is no longer being treated as an ugly stepchild, and Raw isn't being dominated by Cena or the extend McMahon family.

WWE is as better than it has been in years, I think we're on the verge of the next generation, the next defining era of pro wrestling. With people like Edge and CM Punk leading us there.

Danger_Dave

validreasoning! wrote: »

Let it go Heyman, seriously. Who'd take business advice from this jackoff who ran his own company into the ground?

If Heyman took over WWE tomorrow, they'd lose all their TV deals and none of the talent wouldn't be paid before the following weekend came around!

VR!

He may have run it into the ground , but he did build the promotion. Id agree that he probably shouldnt run a company but a great deal of what he said is true.

Lets hope the wwe do something, i haven't watched wwe programming since the weak ass Scramble matches.

P.S Cheers for the article Vince !

rovert

flahavaj wrote: »

Then you are the instrument of his searching, music playing, melody tuning, arpeggio making, string seeking long fingers. Because you are that internet 24/7 internet community seeking, have no life, lonely existence community you so hypocritically condemn family he reaches to.

You laughing at the internet is like a cancer patient pulling the life support of his face in anger.

Hypocritical and ultimately futile.

That bright light outside the window today was the last vestiges of the summer, rovert. You should have paid heed to it. Spending 18 hours day tapping at at your computer with your chubby little fingers is socially unhealthy . Next you'll be falling in love with some Aussie bloke off the internet and moving abroad. **** the loss like.:pac::pac:

At least I was out last night and not up to all hour’s drunk posting ****e on the internet as you seemed to have done. Sorry mate you are the one being hypocritical one here. I’ve also reported this post.

Heyman has always played to the internet or hardcore fans. Whether it be talking to the wrestling newsletters, cultivating the image of the rebel in ECW or posting articles like this on the internet to be read my internet fans. Nothing what he says is new or groundbreaking it is just another ploy of his. Many wrestlers have said that the only time when Paul isn’t lying is when has lips aren’t moving also he has the reputation as being one of the most manipulative and intelligent people in the industry. His agenda in these articles has been just to undermine Stephanie McMahon, the head of creative and who he hates with a passion while bigging up the genius of Vince McMahon in an attempt to get back at Stephanie for costing him his job.

Cactus Col wrote: »

Basically what heyman is saying that WWE should try harder to attract a younger audience and active wrestlers should have some say in the creative side of things?

Hardly news. He's just about repeating what people have been saying for years.

What Heyman doesn't mention is that inbetween the Hulkamaniac era and the Attitude era, we had the New Generation. That's where I feel we are now; in that transitionary period where yesterdays stars are finally disappearing, and the stars of tomorrow are cutting their teeth. The WWE rosters are loaded with potential, a lot of youngsters have been making their debuts. They finally have a handle on ECW, Smackdown is no longer being treated as an ugly stepchild, and Raw isn't being dominated by Cena or the extend McMahon family.

WWE is as better than it has been in years, I think we're on the verge of the next generation, the next defining era of pro wrestling. With people like Edge and CM Punk leading us there.

My view is closest to Cols. If WWE followed Heyman's view of wrestling wrestlers like Edge, Punk etc would be crippled, drugged or dead by their 35th birthday.

flahavaj

Sorry bout that rovert. A boy whiskey.

Sure tis only the aul internet. I hope this won't be the end for us.:pac:

ShawnRaven

Folks, i've one question for the lot of you (with the exception of rovert because he didn't comment on what i wrote).

Where in any of my posts did i say i didn't agree with what he said?
VR!

pingu_girl

flahavaj wrote: »

Next you'll be falling in love with some Aussie bloke off the internet and moving abroad. **** the loss like.:pac::pac:

Lmao its happend to posters before~!

rovert

flahavaj wrote: »

Sorry bout that rovert. A boy whiskey.

Sure tis only the aul internet. I hope this won't be the end for us.:pac:

Id rather be a smark than a lightweight.

flahavaj

rovert wrote: »

Id rather be a smark than a lightweight.

Me too. Thankfully I am. That'd actually be a good title for a song.

I'm actually great at drinking amongst other things. Ask anyone.:pac:

herewegoagain

flahavaj wrote: »

Me too. Thankfully I am. That'd actually be a good title for a song.

I'm actually great at drinking amongst other things. Ask anyone.:pac:

Stop going off topic..This was a good thread and posts like that ruin it

flahavaj

We haven't been introduced, hello there.

Twas only light hearted banter between my friend and I.

No-ones any craic anymore.

rovert

flahavaj wrote: »

Twas only light hearted banter between my friend and I.

Self loathing on your part more like, cop the **** on and get back on topic or dont post at all.

flahavaj

rovert wrote: »

Self loathing on your part more like, cop the **** on and get back on topic or dont post at all.

I'm not going to post again in this thread but that was exquisite, thank you. You're some buachaill.:D

Mr.Nice Guy

flahavaj wrote: »

No-ones any craic anymore.

Internet - serious business

I don't know if Heyman plays it like a violin but some people on this board play it like a loud monotonous drum that pierces deep inside your brain and makes you want to gauge your eyeballs out.

Or maybe that's just me.

john concannon

The internet is hardly serious business.Just uptight fools with no lives.

Heyman is great for ****ing the intersmarks around.Fair ****s to him for giving WWE advice when his company went under and ruined peoples lives.
Well done Paul

pingu_girl

First Minto banned for a week, then flahavaj. I'm suspecting an anti Deise conspiracy on here

I fear for my personal own safety. protect me rovert - your number 1 fan
pingu_girl

Bubs101

Rovert has a boards.ie groupie? No i've seen everything. Meltzer eat your heart out

ShawnRaven

flahavaj wrote: »

Next you'll be falling in love with some Aussie bloke off the internet and moving abroad. **** the loss like.:pac::pac:

I see what you did there!
I'd use the term "love" somewhat loosely too, bwahahah.

VR!

Gerard.C

rovert wrote: »

Id rather be a smark than a lightweight.

Whiskey is the drink of lightweights alright.

rovert

Great even more off topic posting as herewegoagain said this was a good thread. :rolleyes:

Going back to what I posted #19, never take what he says at face value. Even if what he is saying is valid.

JP Liz

Is Heyman gone from the WWE completely?

Maybe the Jonas Bros can join the WWE creative team like Freddie Prinze Jr :P

rovert

JP Liz wrote: »

Is Heyman gone from the WWE completely?

Yes and has no desire to work in Wrestling again.

john concannon

JP Liz wrote: »

Maybe the Jonas Bros can join the WWE creative team like Freddie Prinze Jr :P

That was about as funny as lung cancer.Jesus Christ can we get on topic or just leave this thread alone.

krudler

john concannon wrote: »

That was about as funny as lung cancer.Jesus Christ can we get on topic or just leave this thread alone.

does complaining about an off topic post with an off topic post mean this thread is doomed?

anyway, heyman=creative genius, but i'd give a chimp with a gambling problem in deep with the loan sharks my money before i'd let him run a promotion from the business end

rovert

This article spawned probably the best piece of writing Ive ever read on Wrestling. In the The Wrestling Observer this week.

Vince135792003

I read the piece Dave Meltzer did in relation to the Heyman article/ state of wrestling in the Observer today too. It was really interesting and alot to digest in it. Definitely something I'll be re-reading over the next few days.

rizzla

Man, Dave can play the internet like a tambourine.

rovert

rizzla wrote: »

Man, Dave can play the internet like a tambourine.

It is amazing what making a point using reasoning, logic, context and quotes from the one biggest name wrestlers ever (The Rock) and a number of WWE writers will do especially when it is presented over 7 or 8 pages. I would try to summarise it but I think I need to reread it again. Basically it is everything everyone has said here and else about what is totally wrong with the WWE out really well along with the bleak implications it has for’s WWE future.

Shaneomac

rovert wrote: »

Yes and has no desire to work in Wrestling again.

Do u actually believe that? Given the chance to do things his way with little financial implications on himself from wwe or other im fairly sure hed bite their hand off. Interesting what he could do with the Tna roster.

ShawnRaven

It wouldn't surprise me, Vince chewed up and spat out Heyman six times over for December To Dismember in 2006. I'm not sure if all of that abortion of a PPV is entirely Heyman's fault in fairness. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t, and Lashley was living proof.

VR!

rovert

Shaneomac wrote: »

Do u actually believe that? Given the chance to do things his way with little financial implications on himself from wwe or other im fairly sure hed bite their hand off. Interesting what he could do with the Tna roster.

I do believe that, all of the people closest to him including Meltzer are certain. Neither major company would give the type of power you are talking about to anyone who is an outsider. IF he was to return to Wrestling TNA would be the very last place he would go, seriously. Heyman is set for life financially.