Garda Fire Safety Training

civdef

Do Gardai receive any training in fire safety, or what to do at a fire?

boardsbandit200

we ring the local fire brigade

civdef

Clever, but I'm thinking of several instances where Gardai have been first on scene, and their well meaning but ill-informed actions have made the situation worse. A lot of these situations could be solved in advance with a small amount of training.

pa990

Everyone expects a lot from the gardai, they are expected to be Law enforcers, fire fighters, first aiders, solicitors, expert drivers,social workers, counsellor, dipolmat, trained in every possible course / device and be infallible

The gardai do not have the equipment to do their own job, let alone take on fire fighting. Its easier to call the professionals in their shiny red trucks

Eru

civdef wrote: »

their well meaning but ill-informed actions have made the situation worse. A lot of these situations could be solved in advance with a small amount of training.

Hold on a second, what instances are we speaking about here?

Gardai dont handle fires nor do we want to. A see a fire I call DFB, people are inside or there is obvious action that needs to be taken then yes we act but not in a fire fighting capacity. Besides, any scene involving both Gardai and fire is in the hands of DFB until they have finished with the scene / people. We are only there to assist them or because of possible criminal activity.

Sometimes I get the distinct impression that people want the various agencies to fight with eachother but its not like that most of the time.

Turner

civdef wrote: »

Clever, but I'm thinking of several instances where Gardai have been first on scene, and their well meaning but ill-informed actions have made the situation worse. A lot of these situations could be solved in advance with a small amount of training.

Please give examples of these instances..

And explain what you would have done in those circumstances.

civdef

First off, I'm not out to criticise anyone for attempting to help when they are faced with a fire which potentially involves casualties, (incidentally under the Fire Services Act Gardai are recognised as being in control of the firefighting effort till the Fire Service arrive) and I applaud the bravery of anyone who will face one without the benefit of any protective equipment - I'm asking a specific question to see if any training is given to Gardai in this area.

There have been instances (and I'm not getting onto specifics) where rescue attempts at fires by non-firefighters who were waiting for the fire service to arrive have resulted in escalation of the incidents and extra casualties for fire services to deal with. As Gardai are a uniformed emergency service who can be first on scene, they are likely to come under significant internal and external pressure to attempt rescues of this sort.

What I am trying to find out is if Gardai get any guidance on what is or isn't a good plan in that situation, e.g. when to break / open doors or windows and when to leave them closed, when that odd smell might be something that will kill you after one lung-full or when a compartment is getting ready to flashover, just to name a couple. Information of this sort could help a Garda faced with a potentially extremely dangerous situation to know what's possible and what's not.

I'm not looking to score points, second guess or cause interagency strife. I'm looking at the possibility of putting together some training info on this subject, and I'm looking to see if anything is already out there.

Things are getting very defensive on the forum lately.

yayamark

civdef i see what you mean but your first post seemed like a low shot at Gardai. Now i know you wouldnt do something like that your a mod

I have never recieved Fire training or been told what to do.

I have been to a house fire, where i was first ES at scene, I was told by people at scene that there was an old man upstairs.

I entered the house down stairs was perfect as the fire was upstairs. I ran up stairs to help the man out of the house. I didnt even get to the landing the smoke up stairs was incredible. I really thought entering the house "feck it i'll just run upstairs and save that man" but no way could i have gone into that room. I felt pretty ****ing useless with the public looking at me. Thankfully the fb arrived and they were able to get the man out with only minor injuries.

I know in this situation i wouldnt have been able to do anything but yes i would like some training of course.

On a side note we could start a million and one threads about what type of training the Gardai need as our job is so diverse that we need continous training on a wide variety of scenarios. Unfortunately this does not happen.

djtechnics1210

At present the organisation has trained a lot of members to EFR and EMT level and these are trained to deal with fire related medical incidents until dfb or ambulance arrives - smoke inhalation, burns etc etc, but as of yet i have not heard of any member being trained regarding fire safety training. There is a fire safety officer in every district though, I'm pretty sure that is more aimed towards the evaluation of fire safety within the various stations within the district though.

ScubaDave

What members have received EMT ot EFR training?

Fyr.Fytr

I read on here ERU members are efr's, think rsu's maybe too. Its in the thread about rsu's

eroo

I take it EMT is Emergency Medical Technician ya? But what is EFR?

djtechnics1210

Emergency First Responder. ERU,SDU,NBCI,RSU have qualified EFR members, ERU also have qualified EMT's - it all comes under the duty of care, if garda shoots someone or go on an operation knowing there is a possibility that shots could be fired then they are technically required to have someone qualified that can administer medical treatment until such time as the victim/suspect is brought to hospital

Fyr.Fytr

Thanks djtechnics i knew i read it on here somwhere

Paulzx

My personal opinion on gardai going into fires is don't do it.

It is difficult to describe to anyone how physically impossible it is to function in smoke filled environment without training and equipment. The smoke in a house fire will completely incapacitate anyone without breathing apparatus. The visibility will be zero. The crap you see on tv in fire programs of nice flames licking up the walls inside the house does not convey the reality of a house fire. In a house fire we can see nothing. We crawl around and work completely by touch. We are conscious all the time of our route back out. Imagine the darkest place you have ever been. Well its twice as dark as that

I know its not easy for a guard to stand outside a house fire with people screaming at him/her but my advice is to never go in. Think of your own family and make the smart decision

djtechnics1210

As far as I know some members in the bridewell station are trained in BA (breathing apparatus) because there a large amount of cells/prisoners and the place is full of locks,security doors etc etc to get in and out of prison section. I have seen BA sets in locations around the prison section, again not really fire safety but i suppose it may well save lives,cause atleast members can get people out when its just smoke they have to deal with and not fire.

lehanemore

Paulzx wrote: »

My personal opinion on gardai going into fires is don't do it.

It is difficult to describe to anyone how physically impossible it is to function in smoke filled environment without training and equipment. The smoke in a house fire will completely incapacitate anyone without breathing apparatus. The visibility will be zero. The crap you see on tv in fire programs of nice flames licking up the walls inside the house does not convey the reality of a house fire. In a house fire we can see nothing. We crawl around and work completely by touch. We are conscious all the time of our route back out. Imagine the darkest place you have ever been. Well its twice as dark as that

I know its not easy for a guard to stand outside a house fire with people screaming at him/her but my advice is to never go in. Think of your own family and make the smart decision

I couldn't agree more with the above quote.

I'm trained as an industrial fire fighter, we train with personnel from the local city brigade amongst other things, we spend a lot of time in BA in fire and smoke conditions, it is very oppressive, hot and dark, you have to get down on your belly to have any chance of survival, it is amazing how quickly fire and smoke can completely incapacitate you.

Hollywood has given people a dangerous impression, the real thing is very different.

angelfire9

Paulzx wrote: »

My personal opinion on gardai going into fires is don't do it.

It is difficult to describe to anyone how physically impossible it is to function in smoke filled environment without training and equipment. The smoke in a house fire will completely incapacitate anyone without breathing apparatus. The visibility will be zero. The crap you see on tv in fire programs of nice flames licking up the walls inside the house does not convey the reality of a house fire. In a house fire we can see nothing. We crawl around and work completely by touch. We are conscious all the time of our route back out. Imagine the darkest place you have ever been. Well its twice as dark as that

I know its not easy for a guard to stand outside a house fire with people screaming at him/her but my advice is to never go in. Think of your own family and make the smart decision

I have to say i TOTALLY agree with this, as some of you read on previous posts of mine i had a house fire on June 16th last and the smoke was unbelievable there wouldn't have been a hope that anyone except the fire brigade could have done anything worthwhile by going into the house with the fumes and smoke that was coming out of my kitchen they wouldn't have been able to see anything and they would more than likely have been knocked out by the fumes/smoke
More people die in house fires as a result of smoke inhalation than actual burning to the best of my knowledge
Our cat died of smoke inhalation and it was on the ground!

On a side note, regarding the behaviour of the gardai who arrived on scene.. now anyone who has read my posts knows the respect I have for the Gardai that goes without saying but the stupidy of 2 of the officers on the scene had to be seen to be believed!

First off, while standing outside the house waiting for the FB (as we watched the flames engulfing the kitchen) one officer asked me "were you smoking in bed when it started?" Like hello, it was a kitchen fire what has that to do with anything???

Then, and i think this is the classic... I was outside the house waiting on FB and ambulance dressed in nothing but a long tee-shirt and one bright spark Garda turns to me and asks "Do you not think you should put on some clothes its a bit cold?"
Now given that my clothes were in the house, and like most people i don't carry a spare outfit in the car for these types of occassions did he honestly expect me to go into a house which was on fire to get a pair of trousers just so he didn't have to look at my legs???
(BTW i'm told I have nice legs i'm 6ft tall so it's all leg really :pac: but in fairness a bit of cop on (excuse the pun) would have been nice!

djtechnics1210

Maybe he was trying to chat ya up (although not very good at it)