I Beleive That God Exists Because........

Sea Sharp

Ok, I've been reading through some of the debates within this forum, but most are too long to catch up on and join in on. They usually get trolled with several different arguments that are tangents to the subject at hand.

So I'm making a proposal for People who beleive in God...

"I beleive that god, the divine being exists, and has Influenced The Writings Of What we Recognise as the Bible. I believe this because......................"

The challenge is, for you creationists, to finish this sentence.
The explanation you give must make logical sense.

If you can give me an answer that makes sense, i.e is logical, I will reconsider the existance of a god.

I would personally like for there to be a God. I like to imagine a reality with some sort of divine being interacting with the human civilisation.
I accept that these ideas have no logical reason for beleiving to be true, I made a seperation between imagination/ignorance and reality .
My Personal Opinions On Religion And God Are Summarized in This Post From After-Hours.
But then I realized that I'd be better to try my luck with a discussion in this forum.

So as to prevent this thread Descending into confusing tangent-topics being discussed, and personal insults and poor communication consuming 100 pages of replies, This Thread Should Have a Set of Rules..

Creationists, you must only respond to the original request to finish the sentence. If you wish to post multiple reactions to the sentence, do them in bullet point form.

Atheists, You are allowed to post here, but your contribution needs to be regulated / structured properly.

If you want, you can quote the Creationist's explanations and then comment on whether or not you consider their explanation to make logical sense.


Please Try and Stick to the format, It could be a good thread if it manages to not high-jacked by idiots. Perhaps the Moderators could try and enforce the rules?

"I beleive that god, the divine being exists, and has Influenced The Writings Of What we Recognise As The Book Of The Bible. I believe this because......................"

When finishing this sentence with your explanation, make sure your answer contains no...

• Assumptions that are based on Other Assumptions
• Holes in Logic of Explanations.
• And Remember To Stick To The Original Challenge. NO TANGENTS.

Creationists can also counter argue any comments made by Atheists regarding the logic of the creationists own proposed conclusion to the sentence. This type of post should be done with the same routine that describes how atheists can challenge the explanations of the Creationists.
Keep All Points You Make in Seperated Or In Bullet-Point Form.
Any other post that doesn't meet the above rules should be considered SPAM / Trolling.

Hopefully This Will Be An Interesting Discussion.

Puck

Is "Creationist" synonymous with "Christian" now?

MrPudding

I doubt you are going to get any satisfaction here.... The answers will not conform to your requirements. They will not satisfy you demand for logic, because someone that believes in god does not care for logic, and I do not mean this is a derogatory fashion. Believers believe for reasons that, in their opinion, either transcend logic, or are logical when you take their other beliefs into consideration.

So you will most likely consider the reasons to be illogical or have holey (pardon the pun) logic or be assumptions based on assumptions. Basically not up to your quite demanding standards.

MrP

Sea Sharp

Well, If Any Creationist / Christian could provide a sensible answer, it would show that they at least some of them understand something we don't.
Christians, if your beliefs are correct, at least one of you should be able to post a satisfying response to the given challenge.

I think People Believe in God because the notion was probably introduced and accepted by them in their early child-hood. Still too young to think logically.
People just have a habbit of clinging onto ideas even after they have matured enough for logical thinking.

seamus

You're not going to get an answer that's based in logic or science.

What you've asked is the equivalent of going into the Atheist forum and asking them to disprove the existence of God using only parables from the Bible.

I would ask the mod here to move the thread to A/A, so we can discuss this point (which I think is worthy of discussion)

I think People Believe in God because the notion was probably introduced and accepted by them in their early child-hood. Still too young to think logically.
People just have a habbit of clinging onto ideas even after they have matured enough for logical thinking.

MrPudding

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

Well, If Any Creationist / Christian could provide a sensible answer, it would show that they at least some of them understand something we don't.

Well that is the point, isn’t it. The answer is sensible to them, it makes perfect sense. They would argue that they do know something that we don’t, that god exists. They know this beyond any doubt and the evidence is there, we simple choose not to see it or to believe it.

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

Christians, if your beliefs are correct, at least one of you should be able to post a satisfying response to the given challenge.

Satisfying to who? They have no requirement to satisfy you, and I expect that most will think, given your first post, that it will not be possible to satisfy you.

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

I think People Believe in God because the notion was probably introduced and accepted by them in their early child-hood. Still too young to think logically.
People just have a habbit of clinging onto ideas even after they have matured enough for logical thinking.

Many here would argue that this is not the case. Many of the christians on this boards will tell you that they have critically looked at the information and have decided that their belief is sound. To imply that they believe simply out of habit, or an inability to see logic, is actually quite offensive to them. Believe me, I know this.

MrP

Dades

seamus wrote: »

I would ask the mod here to move the thread to A/A, so we can discuss this point (which I think is worthy of discussion)

I'm not seeing the point of a moving a 'challenge to Christians to convert GaNjaHaN with logic' to the A&A forum...

Here or nowhere imo!

seamus

Yeah you're right. Best to start a new thread based on that point.

Asiaprod

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

Perhaps the Moderators could try and enforce the rules?

Rule 1. Learn to make a request in a less authoritarian manner. You do not decide how posters here reply. You want to debate, take the good with the bad.
I agree with Dades that there is no point in moving this thread at this time to A&A.
As long as PDN is comfortable with it here, here it can stay.
Debate on, but you need to undestand that all religions are indeed based on faith and personal convictions, not logic. If it were indeed based on logic, we would all be part of the same faith.

Fanny Cradock

I have to say that I am quite uncomfortable with the whole notion of this thread. Aside from the fact that I'm unsure if you are fully aware of the difference between a Christian and creationist, the whole thread seems to be leaning towards "setting 'em up to knock 'em down", albeit unintended. Maybe I'm being a little sensitive here.

At a guess, I would say that it is highly unlikely a post on this forum will shift you from your position. Religious conviction arises not from reading a bunch of replies on boards, but something deeper than that. To a degree - and I would argue that it's to quite a high degree - you can intellectualise and rationalise God, but that only takes you to a point. Without faith you have nothing.

If Christianity has the possibility of being true - and many feel it does - then surely you can spare 20 hours of your life exploring the possibility at both an intellectual and more personal level.

Try going along to an Alpha Course if you have questions. There you will meet people who are exploring the possibility of there being a God. In a casual, yet structured manner, you can sit around and have a chat about things like if God exists or any other question that happens to spring to mind. Aside from that, there are a number of books you could read as recommended on a previous thread. And you could also explore some of debates between notable theologians and atheists. I really enjoyed the debate between Dinesh D'Sousa and Christopher Hitchens.

I believe that if you are really interested in exploring the possibility of there being a God (and I make no guarantees), laying down the gauntlet at the feet of others isn't the way to go about it.

Tim Robbins

seamus wrote: »

What you've asked is the equivalent of going into the Atheist forum and asking them to disprove the existence of God using only parables from the Bible.

Hillarious.

PDN

Much of the stuff the OP is asking for has already been discussed in other threads. However, I have no objection in principle to a new thread.

However, this one seems to have got off the wrong foot for several reasons:

a) The OP sets out a lot of 'rules' and that is not acceptable. It is back-seat modding a thread before it even gets going.

b) The OP lumps all Christians together as 'creationists', which is either a gratuitous dig or betrays a real lack of knowledge about Christianity in the first place.

c) People are more likely to take a thread seriously if the thread title is spelled correctly.

So maybe it would be a good idea to go back to GO, do not collect 200, and start off again on a better footing.