Customs Rte 1 sundays 7:30

Fyr.Fytr

Here is the place to discuss "customs" shown on RTÉ sundays 19:30

Keep it civil and ontopic please folks




While searching for video clips of customs, the rte show i came accross customs UK shown on itv

Heres a link to one episode http://www.itvlocal.com/west/programmes/?player=WST_Prog_15&void=228664

Will try find more for you

civdef

Keep it civil and ontopic please folks

That's rich. Don't push it.

Fyr.Fytr

Just noticed a few mins ago the show is repeated around half 2 on rté 1 on sundays. Sorry i couldnt tell you this earlier (so you could catch up) but i only just found out

donvito99

Just saw todays one, pretty good.

pa990

On tonights episode (21/9/08) customs officers were stopping traffic to check for agri-diesel,

i always thought that had to have gardai present as customs didn't have authority to direct traffic.

timmywex

Tonights episode was once again quite good imo, and in fairness, it showed that everything doesnt always go to plan, that its not all great!

Fyr.Fytr

pa990 wrote: »

On tonights episode (21/9/08) customs officers were stopping traffic to check for agri-diesel,

i always thought that had to have gardai present as customs didn't have authority to direct traffic.

Nope customs do have the powers to direct and stop vehicles as was shown by tonights and last weeks episodes

djtechnics1210

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Nope customs do have the powers to direct and stop vehicles as was shown by tonights and last weeks episodes

Fyr. Fytr is 100% correct. usually the gardai are on these checkpoint to deal with other incidents that might come along during their checks such as public order (irate driver), road traffic (cars failing to stop) etc etc. Customs actually have very strong legal powers in statute in this country regarding stop, seizure, power of entry to dwellings etc etc, same applies to revenue, that is why all agencies work so close together (cab, customs, revenue)

Johnny Utah

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Nope customs do have the powers to direct and stop vehicles as was shown by tonights and last weeks episodes

Under what legislation can customs stop vehicles?



And, how do they carry out their powers of searching a vehicle?

Fyr.Fytr

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Fyr. Fytr is 100% correct. usually the gardai are on these checkpoint to deal with other incidents that might come along during their checks such as public order (irate driver), road traffic (cars failing to stop) etc etc. Customs actually have very strong legal powers in statute in this country regarding stop, seizure, power of entry to dwellings etc etc, same applies to revenue, that is why all agencies work so close together (cab, customs, revenue)

Thats because customs is a branch of revenue

Yea multi agency check points are very common and customs enjoy a good working relationship with gardai, it means one check point can serve many purposes, like searching for mgo, vrt offences, insurance, tax, road worthiness, driver hours (for commercial vehicles), vehicle weights (weigh bridges are very favorable spots for check points), drugs and weapon searches etc etc etc


Customs gain their powers from customs acts and finance acts. As for how they carry out their powers, please elaborate, do you mean under what acts, or how do they preform the search itself??


Power to stop vehicles.
134.—(1) An officer in uniform may stop any vehicle in order—

(a) that such officer, or any officer accompanying such officer, may exercise any power conferred on them by section 135 in relation to excisable products or any other products chargeable with a duty of excise, where there are reasonable grounds to believe that such products are being transported in or on such vehicle, or

(b) to examine and take samples of mineral oil under section 135 (2)(a).

(2) An officer in uniform or a member of the Garda Síochána may stop any vehicle for any purpose related to vehicle registration tax or the registration of vehicles in any of the registers established and maintained under Chapter IV of Part II of the Finance Act, 1992 .

(3) Any person in charge of a moving vehicle shall, at the request of an officer in uniform or a member of the Garda Síochána, stop such vehicle.

(4) Any person in charge of a vehicle shall, whether such vehicle has been stopped by an officer or member of the Garda Síochána under this section, or is already stationary, at the request of an officer or member of the Garda Síochána—

(a) keep such vehicle stationary for such period as is reasonably required to enable an officer or member to exercise any power conferred on such officer or member by section 135 , or

(b) where such vehicle is in the opinion of such officer or member situated in a place unsuitable for the exercise of any power conferred on such officer or member by section 135 , take such vehicle or cause it to be taken to such place as such officer or member may consider suitable for the exercise of such power.

Sorry to highlight the "or" in the above section but just to make it clear customs can do this independently of the guards (who may also do so as agents of the revenue commissioners)


Bit of reading for you http://www.revenue.ie/services/foi/s16_2001/min_pt4.pdf

Johnny Utah

I was always under the impression that only Gardai/traffic wardens/people in charge of animals could stop vehicles, but perhaps this was because of a particular question on the driving test. See here, for example.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055168516&highlight=traffic+warden

Furthermore, there are penalty points for failure to stop for a Garda or a traffic warden, but there no mention of points for failure to stop for customs. Anyway, it appears you are right that customs do have the power to stop vehicles now by virtue of the 2001 Act you listed.


In relation to searching vehicles, can you tell me if customs must have reasonable suspicion in order to search the vehicle.
In the programme last night, (I think) the officer with the dog simply asked permission to search the car- (not sure but I think this was the case). For Gardai, they must have reasonable suspicion in order to search a vehicle for drugs/weapons etc. There are some very limited exceptions, but the general rule is that Gardai must have reasonable suspicion before they can search. If customs now have the authority to search/examine vehicles, I thought that they would have to abide by the same rules- ie. they would have to have reasonable suspicion too. Otherwise, it would mean that customs now have powers which are far in excess of the Gardai's.

pa990

i did a bit of research, and i discovered a 1974 act that allows customs and excise to stop vehicles within 20 miles of an airport, but i have been informed that in 1994 their powers were extended to allow them to stop vehicles anywhere

Johnny Utah wrote: »

customs now have powers which are far in excess of the Gardai's.

correct.. well, partially

They have powers to do certain things that the gardai cannot do.. and vice versa

Fyr.Fytr

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I was always under the impression that only Gardai/traffic wardens/people in charge of animals could stop vehicles, but perhaps this was because of a particular question on the driving test. See here, for example.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055168516&highlight=traffic+warden

Furthermore, there are penalty points for failure to stop for a Garda or a traffic warden, but there no mention of points for failure to stop for customs. Anyway, it appears you are right that customs do have the power to stop vehicles now by virtue of the 2001 Act you listed.


In relation to searching vehicles, can you tell me if customs must have reasonable suspicion in order to search the vehicle.
In the programme last night, (I think) the officer with the dog simply asked permission to search the car- (not sure but I think this was the case). For Gardai, they must have reasonable suspicion in order to search a vehicle for drugs/weapons etc. There are some very limited exceptions, but the general rule is that Gardai must have reasonable suspicion before they can search. If customs now have the authority to search/examine vehicles, I thought that they would have to abide by the same rules- ie. they would have to have reasonable suspicion too. Otherwise, it would mean that customs now have powers which are far in excess of the Gardai's.

As stated below they had the powers before 01, slightly more restrictive and in subsequent finance acts and customs acts this was amended. Just found a pdf outlining changes effecting customs as a result of FA 01 so just copied and pasted to give you an idea.

Ill do more digging but as far as im aware customs do not need reasonable suspicion as your entering the country so subject to customs checks whether you like it or not. Think dinny just asked if he could put the dog in as maybe the driver didnt want dog hair possible scratches all over his car, if they refuse the dog the car will be searched by officers instead.

Customs are lucky in some areas where their powers are more then that of a guard such as searching without warrant etc etc

ill do more digging and see what i can come up with for you

djtechnics1210

Nearly all Garda search powers are without warrant (such as Misuse of Drugs, Offences Against the State etc, however reasonable suspicion is a must)- only need warrant when entering dwelling - unless they have pal has commited arrestable offence and member has seen pal enter dwelling. When gardai are appointed to CAB they become bureau officers which entitles them to powers revenue/customs have.
*in relation to customs in the airport/port, i believe people are technically not in any country until they are permitted to pass through passport control

Fyr.Fytr

Nice dj, as i said i wasnt sure, havnt had the chance to dig around must get round to it

I read in one of the acts that gardai are argents of revenue thus get some, not all of their powers but as youve said once they're in cab they have all of them along with others.

In ports airports, you clear immigration before you clear customs, customs is the last stop as you must also clear your luggage through customs also

Johnny Utah

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

*in relation to customs in the airport/port, i believe people are technically not in any country until they are permitted to pass through passport control

I'm not sure about that- if the suspect wasn't in any country, then he wouldn't have broken any laws. The fact that a person may be found to have drugs on him during a customs search and is then prosecuted under Irish law would lead me to believe that the person is within the Irish jurisdiction. If that is the case, then customs must act in accordance with Irish legal principles, both statutory and common law.

Also, customs hardly search every single car/container/ship coming into the country, so how do they decide which cars exactly to search. If they do have the power to search cars at random, then I'm surprised that this power hasn't been challenged in court, as it is clearly in breach of Article 38 of the Constitution.

Edit: forgot to add, Irish territory goes out something like 18 or 20 miles off the coast, so surely the person standing in customs would be in Ireland.

Fyr.Fytr

As he said technically they arnt in ireland as they have not been granted access and can be put of the return flight straight back. Customs is after immigration so the person has already been "landed" in ireland. if found in possession of drugs, contraband etc customs can and sometimes do contact GNIB who will review your entry to ireland and may retract your visa tourist, working or otherwise and deport you at the first available opportunity

The main offence re: drugs and the like is importing them this happens when you pass customs with them and fail to declare them ie walking through the green or blue channels. As is often the case undercover customs will follow a suspect and put in the stop once the person has failed to declare the goods.

The majority of vehicles/persons stop have been subject to risk profiling. This involves identifying passengers/vehicles/cargo etc that pose a risk ie coming from a source country, records of being stopped before etc etc. As for random stopping i am unsure of the legality of this but as far as im aware it is a condition of entry to the country that you are subjected to these checks, as is cargo your mail etc.


I'm up to my eyes in work and college but will ask around and do a bit more research for you when i get a chance

Johnny Utah

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

As he said technically they arnt in ireland as they have not been granted access and can be put of the return flight straight back. Customs is after immigration so the person has already been "landed" in ireland. if found in possession of drugs, contraband etc customs can and sometimes do contact GNIB who will review your entry to ireland and may retract your visa tourist, working or otherwise and deport you at the first available opportunity

The main offence re: drugs and the like is importing them this happens when you pass customs with them and fail to declare them ie walking through the green or blue channels. As is often the case undercover customs will follow a suspect and put in the stop once the person has failed to declare the goods.

The majority of vehicles/persons stop have been subject to risk profiling. This involves identifying passengers/vehicles/cargo etc that pose a risk ie coming from a source country, records of being stopped before etc etc. As for random stopping i am unsure of the legality of this but as far as im aware it is a condition of entry to the country that you are subjected to these checks, as is cargo your mail etc.


I'm up to my eyes in work and college but will ask around and do a bit more research for you when i get a chance

Ah yes, the risk profiling itself is actually raising reasonable suspicion, if you know what I mean, so therefore searches would be legal. Police do this too (if you ever watch roadwars); for example- there may be a smell of cannabis from car, or drugs paraphenalia in the car, and either of these factors would raise reasonable suspicion to conduct a search. The risk profiling is just another method of raising reasonable suspicion. There was a good discussion on the legal forum about 'reasonable suspicion' a while ago.



However, I doubt the legality of random searching by customs, though I'm not 100% sure.

Good programme- I wish RTE would do more like this.

Fyr.Fytr

Cheers johnny didnt know that. You learn something new everyday (says him who just spend a day in college and finds this the best things hes learned )

eroo

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

You learn something new everyday (says him who just spend a day in college and finds this the best things hes learned )

Your not alone there!:pac:

pa990

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Edit: forgot to add, Irish territory goes out something like 18 or 20 miles off the coast, so surely the person standing in customs would be in Ireland.

Not entirely true, remember that Embassies are not on irish soil.. even though they are in the country.
.. i'm sure there are other exceptions that would be of benefit to C&E in their duties.

(for some reason i think that the 'Shannon free zone' is classed as international.. maybe i'm wrong)

Fyr.Fytr

Theres a "sterilized zone" in dublin airport containing us customs, technically us soil as you clear immigration before you leave dead handy.

Shannon free zone, i think thats why there was (maybe still is) a customs frontier post on the entrance road to the airport, so you clear customs entering ireland so to speak

eroo

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Shannon free zone, i think thats why there was (maybe still is) a customs frontier post on the entrance road to the airport, so you clear customs entering ireland so to speak

No that's an Airport Police security post. Customs operate the same way in Shannon as most other airports.

Fyr.Fytr

Ah my mistake i was led to believe it was a customs post, my bad

Ruen

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Theres a "sterilized zone" in dublin airport containing us customs, technically us soil as you clear immigration before you leave dead handy.

That'd be US Customs and Border Protection, they have a pre clearance facility in DUB and it's only for immigration checks atm, they will have full customs facility in T2 when it's up and running, but it's not US soil at all it's Irish soil and passengers are still under Irish jurisdiction....and ye it is dead handy saves a load of time when you get to the States no queuing for immigration

Fyr.Fytr

Sorry ment to say US CBP, tiredness getting the better of me. Ahh i thought it wasnt irish soil as its called the sterilized zone (well thats what the plaque on the wall says)

Eru

Theres a difference between a countries 'jurisdiction', 'border' and 'territory'.

Once your within Irish waters your within the 'jurisdiction', Once your on land that forms part of the Republic of Ireland your inside the Irish 'border' but then you have 'territories' which are under the control of a nation but not actually part of the nation. Im not 100% sure how that one works too be honest.

Ireland isnt the best example though, the US would be as it still has its toe in many pools across the world and multiple differennt state laws and police forces for example plus little islands scattered all over the pacific that are used as military bases.

In fact even when your in international waters or air you will find the vessel has designated 'flags' for legal purposes, ie can you commit theft in international waters? If so who prosecutes and so on.

Then of course you have Maritime law on top of all that which while mostly civil based still has allowances for criminal matters and various air navigation eu laws and treaties, etc.

Its a huge area and you would be doing well to find any legal expert who could cover it all.

timmywex

Seems the first episode pulled in the viewers anyways, 458,000 according to the rte guide iirc

Eru

I wasnt very impressed by it in all honesty. Seemed everything was done a little ad-hoc. An example being the Rugby supporters, they were dealt with in a half hearted manner with the officers appearing more concerned with PR and customer service than actually catching anyone with drugs.

If your going to stop and search then stop and search, dont back off because the guys a little arguementative. Just like petting the dog, criminals go through a system all the time, they know how to get around things so someone petting the dog should be given more attention.

An example being, criminals with something on them will often engage in idle chit chat with the police or even approach us as its putting the police on the back foot and the idea in our heads that they wouldnt possible approach us if they were guilty. Anyone thats suspicious asks me for the time, etc gets searched.

Fyr.Fytr

Really? note to self never ask a guard the time

As for the searching i was put into a crowd of passengers during my work experience, walked past the dog with one of the scent samples in my pocket (all for the cameras). The whole search was conducted purely for the cameras and i can say it was much in the same fashion as the one shown, so maybe it was just a pr stunt too, ill find out if its a regular occurrence or not.

Karlitos ill pass your tips on to andrea the dog handler (phfoaw!) she was in the airport when i did the work experience so ill give her your nugget of advice

Ruen

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Sorry ment to say US CBP, tiredness getting the better of me. Ahh i thought it wasnt irish soil as its called the sterilized zone (well thats what the plaque on the wall says)

A sterilized zone refers to a particular area where access to the area is controlled, in the case of the CBP in the airport they'd be preventing people without permission to travel to or enter the States legally getting by them and on the plane.
It's a great system really saves hassle of deporting people without visas by stopping them at point of departure

Oh btw Customs is on RTE website now if anyone wanted to see it

Fyr.Fytr

Ahh i had the wrong end of the stick, cheers mate


http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/ep1.html

maglite

Where have you travelled form sir,

Africa,

Where in Africa, its a big country...

driveshaft

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

I wasnt very impressed by it in all honesty. Seemed everything was done a little ad-hoc.

I have to agree. They came across as very ad-hoc!! Particularly the fella chasing the uk cars in cork. "Lets follow this yellow reg and see where he's off to" - just looked unprofessional in the extreme!! The entire show looks like a very bad attempt at scaremongering people!

Also, I have no pity on the young lad who got caught with the Mini on UK plates for the simple reason that he was too honest with them!

spurious

maglite wrote: »

Where have you travelled form sir,

Africa,

Where in Africa, its a big country...

That was really cringeworthy. You'd think working in an area dealing with people from all over the world they'd have some clue.

pa990

I think GI Joe at the airport is hillarious... Inter-agency- mumbo jumbo.. lol

i think he's watching COPS too much

Fyr.Fytr

I cringed at the africa bit though.

Did like when shay said "Oh duncans all dressed up, duncan must be in court today"


my da was finally on it, but only in the backround at the checkpoint.

curious about the last bit, the cigs in the trousers, they searched the bags in the airport church carpark, while the checkpoint was furth down the road at the esso, seems strange.

Steyr

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Edit: forgot to add, Irish territory goes out something like 18 or 20 miles off the coast, so surely the person standing in customs would be in Ireland.

12 Miles.

akamossie

Hi lads, hows going?

i have missed the show and i'd like to watch, anyone know where i can download it..

Cheers

TheNog

akamossie wrote: »

Hi lads, hows going?

i have missed the show and i'd like to watch, anyone know where i can download it..

Cheers

Not that I know of. RTE kept a link to the show on their site for a week maybe two after each show but thats it.

Have ye tried Youtube?

akamossie

ya i have tried alrite but no luck, Era i guess wont c it unless if they put it back on tv

ste88m

Was going through some old bookmarks and found these (still working!)
All 6 episodes:

1) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20080914.html

2) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20080921.html

3) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20080928.html

4) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20081005.html

5) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20081012.html

6) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20081019.html

kerry4sam

ste88m wrote: »

Was going through some old bookmarks and found these (still working!)
All 6 episodes:

1) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20080914.html

2) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20080921.html

3) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20080928.html

4) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20081005.html

5) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20081012.html

6) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20081019.html

They're still good to re-watch I must say, i enjoyed watching this programme.

sdanseo

ste88m wrote: »

Was going through some old bookmarks and found these (still working!)
All 6 episodes:

1) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20080914.html

2) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20080921.html

3) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20080928.html

4) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20081005.html

5) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20081012.html

6) http://www.rte.ie/tv/customs/av_20081019.html

Yup, by repeating this for any programme on rte you can get around their attempt to stop you watching them after 21 days. Legal, too. Don't spread the word though.

Eg: www.rte.ie/tv/[PROGRAMMENAME]/av_[DATE:YYYYMMDD].html

ste88m

sdonn_1 wrote: »

Yup, by repeating this for any programme on rte you can get around their attempt to stop you watching them after 21 days. Legal, too. Don't spread the word though.

Eg: www.rte.ie/tv/[PROGRAMMENAME]/av_[DATE:YYYYMMDD].html

You've hit the nail on the head sdonn. Only had the one bookmarked, but I just threw a guess at the rest of them & it worked:D. Good old RTE. lol.

Anyone know anything about a series two? Personally, I doubt it.

akamossie

Thank you very much, was looking all over the place...:D