Teen accused of attacking three Gardaí

eroo

18/09/2008 - 16:33:27
A 17-year-old boy who allegedly kicked a female Garda in the face as she lay on the ground, left her concussed, and then went on to break two of her colleagues’ noses, has been further remanded in custody pending direction from the DPP.

He was also given a six-month sentence at the Dublin Children’s Court for a separate offence, car theft, where he led on a pursuit through north inner city Dublin, on August 23 last.

The boy has been charged with using a stolen car, engaging in violent disorder and three counts of assaulting gardaí, on September 1 and September 3 last. Judge Bryan Smyth was told that the file on the investigation was extensive.

He remanded the teenager in custody for a further four weeks pending the DPP’s directions on whether the case is to be retained in the Children’s Court or instead be sent forward to the Circuit Court which on conviction can impose lengthier sentences.

In relation to the assaults, a Garda sergeant had told the court there was “no control” over the boy, whom he stated continued to commit serious offences while he was on bail with a curfew condition for earlier crimes.

The alleged attack, which the teenager is denying, happened after gardaí say they spotted him driving a stolen car.

Garda John Dolan had said he and a female colleague had been trying to arrest the teenager, at St Mary’s Mansions, in north inner city Dublin on September 1.

His colleague was left a state of concussion after the boy attacked and called on up 15 other youths to assist him.

“I heard him say: ‘Help me!’ and they duly did,” he had told Judge Smyth.

Gda-Sgt David Gallagher had told Judge Smyth the boy hit the female officer on the face and “kicked her on the ground in the face.”

The sergeant was also attacked and sustained a broken nose when the boy was arrested three days later.

“In relation to the assault on me, this was a head butt I received while carrying out the arrest,” he said and went on to tell the judge that later that day, the boy struck another garda and broke his nose too.

The teen, whose parents were present for his case today, is already serving a nine-month sentence imposed two weeks ago for a string motor theft offences.

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhqlidcwcwau/

I am stunned and outraged!:mad: There are always cases of Gardai being assaulted but this one is particularly bad. Just goes to show curfews don't have much of an effect. Maybe something such as electronic tagging should be introduced!?

Electronic tagging?

Electrocution would be too good for them. Scumbags. Should be given a year in mountjoy and a good beating by the three Gardai.

timmywex

Total scumbaggery

eroo

Deleted User wrote: »

Electronic tagging?

Electrocution would be too good for them. Scumbags. Should be given a year in mountjoy and a good beating by the three Gardai.

AFAIK, electronic tagging allows police to know if someone has broken curfew; something like leaving there house after or before a certain time. It doesn't electrocute them.

As regards your last point, whether said in disgust or in jest, I cannot help but take issue with it. Surely a year in Mountjoy will not change this guy. As for a beating, that gets nobody anywhere and means stooping to lower, despicable levels.

Trojan911

Deleted User wrote: »

and a good beating by the three Gardai.

And what would that achieve? Quality..... :rolleyes:

eroo

eroo wrote: »

AFAIK, electronic tagging allows police to know if someone has broken curfew; something like leaving there house after or before a certain time. It doesn't electrocute them.

As regards your last point, whether said in disgust or in jest, I cannot help but take issue with it. Surely a year in Mountjoy will not change this guy. As for a beating, that gets nobody anywhere and means stooping to lower, despicable levels.

I know what electronic tagging is, i meant electrocuting them wouldn't even be good enough (as you used the word electric.. im not creative )

I disagree with your point though. A good hiding is all that these kinda morons seem to understand. Trust me, i live in a neighbourhood thats crawling with them. A slap on the wrist isn't gonna turn them off breaking the law. Neither is a tag. Its a waste of time having the guards play taxi for the dirt in society. I can assure you 100%, if this turned out differently, and the guy that was attacking the guards got concussed and a broken nose, he wouldn't be in any hurry to get in their way again.

Fyr.Fytr

What a scrote ball!

Lock him up and leave him there, the cost of keeping him in prision will be alot less then will be incurred when hes released, commits another offence, is arrested, rememanded, tried and locked up again. do it once save the hassle

eroo

Deleted User wrote: »

I know what electronic tagging is, i meant electrocuting them wouldn't even be good enough (as you used the word electric.. im not creative )

I disagree with your point though. A good hiding is all that these kinda morons seem to understand. Trust me, i live in a neighbourhood thats crawling with them. A slap on the wrist isn't gonna turn them off breaking the law. Neither is a tag. Its a waste of time having the guards play taxi for the dirt in society. I can assure you 100%, if this turned out differently, and the guy that was attacking the guards got concussed and a broken nose, he wouldn't be in any hurry to get in their way again.

Well, I think you're wrong. Not only would it be morally wrong for a police officer to assault anyone, but it also has the effect of giving a police force a bad name and turning people against it. How could a police force claim to 'protect and serve' a community, while beating members of it who commit crime?

Also, speaking from the point of view of someone who wishes to become a Garda, I despise actions such as that, which were common place throughout the world many decades ago. It serves no purpose, as it turns people away from an organisation, and would it also attract the wrong calibre of people into the job imo. I'm not a violent person, so I would never want anything to do with that sort of crap.

An eye for an eye etc doesn't work, never has and never will. I remember watching a documentary, about 2 weeks ago, about a US army unit on patrol in Baghdad. The police there beat anyone who gets in trouble, they had footage of an Iraqi cop beating a young lad, not more than 15. It was one of the worst things I have ever viewed. I, for one, would be ashamed if that was the only answer to deal with criminals.

Fyr.Fytr

Deleted User wrote: »

Electronic tagging?

Electrocution would be too good for them. Scumbags. Should be given a year in mountjoy and a good beating by the three Gardai.

Ha ha ha ha your a funny man


troll alert troll alert troll alert

Fyr.Fytr

Fyr.Fytr wrote:

troll alert troll alert troll alert

Yes. I am clearly trolling this thread with my realistic point and justifiable argument.

You've done more trolling in here than me.

eroo wrote: »

Well, I think you're wrong. Not only would it be morally wrong for a police officer to assault anyone, but it also has the effect of giving a police force a bad name and turning people against it.

I will agree, to the average person walking down the street, yes, it would be morally wrong. But I don't believe morals are very high on the list in the mind of person who is willing to kick a woman in the face when she's on the ground and break two men's noses after calling fifteen other people to help. 16 VS 3 doesn't seem very moral to me.

eroo wrote:

How could a police force claim to 'protect and serve' a community, while beating members of it who commit crime?

You are protecting the community by ensuring that the criminals within the community are legitimately scared to commit a crime.

eroo wrote:

Also, speaking from the point of view of someone who wishes to become a Garda, I despise actions such as that, which were common place throughout the world many decades ago. It serves no purpose, as it turns people away from an organisation, and would it also attract the wrong calibre of people into the job imo. I'm not a violent person, so I would never want anything to do with that sort of crap.

A law enforcement is not very useful if it doesn't enforce the law. I'll give you an example.

Just last week, a group of about.. i dunno.. 6 or 7 teenagers (15 years old or thereabouts i'd guess) sat across the road from my house. It was about 01:30am. They were loud, shouting, playing music, etc. and verbally abusing anyone that would happen to be walking past them. Then, they decided that they obviously weren't amusing themselves enough, so they decided to throw stones at the windows of the house they were outside (none of these teens live in the street, but are well known, by not only the residents, but the local Gardai, too). The people rang the guards and the guards arrived. The car pulled up into the street, the kids shouted abuse and threw stones at the car. The car reversed out of the street and arrived back about ten minutes later with another car. the cops quickly got out of the car and the kids ran out of the street. The guards got back in their car, and left. The kids came back, threw a few more rocks at the house, broke a window and then they casually left. They were back two days later as if nothing had ever happened.


Why? Because they have no fear of the law. Why should they? they've been reported many times and nothing has been done about them. There are two ways in and out of my street, both have road, to drive on. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you come in from both sides of the street you're bound to catch at least one of them. But they never do it. I know i can't speak for everyone with 'GARDA' on their back, but i can safely say that the guards around here have little to no interest in catching anyone, and its a total and complete waste of time calling them.

My sister (scumbag) once bit a guard, taking a chunk of skin off his arm and giving him Hepatitis (not sure which she has). Did she get jailed? no. She's been stealing from shops, fighting in streets and generally evading the gardai for a few years now. It just reached a point were the gardai felt she was more hassle than she's worth.

A similar group of kids used to be the exact same many years ago. But one night a few of the men living in the estate went out to them and beat them while there was beatings in them. Never seen them since.


Thats just a couple of examples. I could go on and on and on.

eroo wrote:

An eye for an eye etc doesn't work, never has and never will.

In my opinion and experience i must completely disagree. I don't agree with the "eye for an eye" thing though, as i don't believe that a Guard should have to suffer in order to teach a scumbag his lesson.

eroo wrote:

I remember watching a documentary, about 2 weeks ago, about a US army unit on patrol in Baghdad. The police there beat anyone who gets in trouble, they had footage of an Iraqi cop beating a young lad, not more than 15. It was one of the worst things I have ever viewed. I, for one, would be ashamed if that was the only answer to deal with criminals.

Hard to watch? Yes.
Tough thing to do? Yes.
If i was in that position, would i feel comfortable doing it? No.


But is it effective? Yes.

It works... and that is why they do it.



Don't get me wrong. I don't feel that the Gardai should go around hospitalising everyone who looks at them wrong, but when in the company of someone like the guy in that article, i'd fully support them physically beating him, because its the only way people like that will learn.

djtechnics1210

I would not like to imagine the outcome of this if it had been down in an area where man power is stretched, 2 members encircled by 15 youths trying to use force to keep the crowd back as best they can, while they wait for assistance, luckily this was in the dublin area were assistance is usually only a couple of minutes away. No doubt the bleeding hearts of society will make some sob story up for him when he goes for sentence, drink at home/drugs/ no one loves him bla bla bla. Sure St "butlins" Pats Institute will be a great laugh for him, he's probably a hero in Mary's Mansions atm. If the members had used their asp on him then the next headline would have been about Gardai hitting juveniles with batons - members cant win. The court system needs to give this sc*umbag a hard sentence to reflect the seriousness of what he's done - when this happens then maybe people will realise that is you assault a member you will be dealt with hard by the courts, until that happens then its sad to say that this is something we are going to be reading about and hearing in work on a regular basis.

CiaranC

KKV, you should just move to Saudi Arabia or Myanmar if you want to live under that kind of police.

How does one 17 year old beat up three Gardai I wonder? Seems odd.

djtechnics1210

CiaranC wrote: »

KKV, you should just move to Saudi Arabia or Myanmar if you want to live under that kind of police.

How does one 17 year old beat up three Gardai I wonder? Seems odd.

Did you NOT READ it properly - 2 Gardai try to arrest pal , then 15 of his mates arrive to help to try and free him, female member ends up on ground and gets kicked in face - this leaves 1 Garda trying to ensure they get help and that he and his partner don't get even more badly assaulted
It then states that when he was being arrested 3 days later he broke a sergeants nose and then later that day in a different incident he broke another members nose. You have obviously never tried to put somebody in to handcuffs when they are trying their hardest not to get into them. Noses break very easily in violent situations and its very hard to protect your face when your using one arm to keep the prisoner in an arm lock and using the other hand to try and get cuffs on both wrists - if only every member had a third hand then there would be no problems. (would you have done better when being being encircled by 15 youths in the middle of St. Mary's, when your partner is being viciously assaulted and you know assistance is minutes away)
** please read things properly before you comment and if you have no operational policing experience then don't pass stupid remarks about serious matters involving members being seriously injured.

deadwood

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

If i went to that assistance call after what he did that young fella would have been arriving in the a&e department of james's a few moments after the injured members, juvenile or no juvenile.

Very disappointed to see a comment like this from someone claiming to be a Garda.

I'm sure you'll try to put it some kind of context now but I think you've shown your true colours.

We're treading a fine line posting on this site and this type of comment draws negative attention to the forum and Gardai as a whole.

I, for one, won't be associated with a member who publicly condones this type of activity.

Members have enough to contend with, contesting vexatious complaints and negative press from certain media and political elements without these hardman threats being published by a member. You have given them a stick with which they will gladly beat you and your colleagues.

You're obviously new to this job but won't last long with that attitude and the force and public will be better off as a result.

I post here for fun, information and to give hopeful applicants, other emergency services and the public an insight to our job. I hoped to show that we're not violent, uneducated right wing yokels.

You've given them an insight into the type of attitude we have tried to eradicate for years, but certain elements wish to perpetuate.

Best of luck to members of all the services on this site. I won't be posting again but i'll watch with interest.

Look after the public and they'll look after you.

CiaranC

Sorry djtechnics, I did indeed read the report wrong.

P.S. Can you give us a rough idea where you are stationed so I can avoid your robocop antics, cheers

Fyr.Fytr

deadwood wrote: »

Very disappointed to see a comment like this from someone claiming to be a Garda.

I'm sure you'll try to put it some kind of context now but I think you've shown your true colours.

We're treading a fine line posting on this site and this type of comment draws negative attention to the forum and Gardai as a whole.

I, for one, won't be associated with a member who publicly condones this type of activity.

Members have enough to contend with, contesting vexatious complaints and negative press from certain media and political elements without these hardman threats being published by a member. You have given them a stick with which they will gladly beat you and your colleagues.

You're obviously new to this job but won't last long with that attitude and the force and public will be better off as a result.

I post here for fun, information and to give hopeful applicants, other emergency services and the public an insight to our job. I hoped to show that we're not violent, uneducated right wing yokels.

You've given them an insight into the type of attitude we have tried to eradicate for years, but certain elements wish to perpetuate.

Best of luck to members of all the services on this site. I won't be posting again but i'll watch with interest.

Look after the public and they'll look after you.

Coldnt agree more, although the attack was disgraceful (tazer would have been ideal to use on this yob) what hope have we if members wish to stoop to the level of these scum, this guy thinks hes judge dredd and lets the rest of the honest upstanding members of the guards down and i hope hell be weeded out soon.

Jay112

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Coldnt agree more, although the attack was disgraceful (tazer would have been ideal to use on this yob) what hope have we if members wish to stoop to the level of these scum, this guy thinks hes judge dredd and lets the rest of the honest upstanding members of the guards down and i hope hell be weeded out soon.

Im sure if he was in the situation he would not actually act on what he says, reading the incident has obviously touched a nerve with the lad and he responded heat of the moment, bit harsh telling a lad that you wish he was kicked out of his career!

Fyr.Fytr

Maybe, but i was always under the impression your not sutiable for the job of a guard if you cant control your emotions when the crap hits the fan. Maybe im wrong as im not a guard but surely they cant just lash out when someone hits a nerve

King Ludvig

deadwood wrote: »

Very disappointed to see a comment like this from someone claiming to be a Garda.

I'm sure you'll try to put it some kind of context now but I think you've shown your true colours.

We're treading a fine line posting on this site and this type of comment draws negative attention to the forum and Gardai as a whole.

I, for one, won't be associated with a member who publicly condones this type of activity.

Members have enough to contend with, contesting vexatious complaints and negative press from certain media and political elements without these hardman threats being published by a member. You have given them a stick with which they will gladly beat you and your colleagues.

You're obviously new to this job but won't last long with that attitude and the force and public will be better off as a result.

I post here for fun, information and to give hopeful applicants, other emergency services and the public an insight to our job. I hoped to show that we're not violent, uneducated right wing yokels.

You've given them an insight into the type of attitude we have tried to eradicate for years, but certain elements wish to perpetuate.

Best of luck to members of all the services on this site. I won't be posting again but i'll watch with interest.

Look after the public and they'll look after you.

I think in this case using reasonalbe force against the scumbag would have been justifyable (s/p). A few smacks of a baton against a violent criminal seems like a reasonable course of action to be. After all he did kick a garda in the face.



**These are the views of a civillian. I have no operational experience as a gaurd and am not a member of any law enforcement agency*** :rolleyes:

Jay112

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Maybe, but i was always under the impression your not sutiable for the job of a guard if you cant control your emotions when the crap hits the fan. Maybe im wrong as im not a guard but surely they cant just lash out when someone hits a nerve

Of course because gardai arent human!! I do see where your coming from but its a forum not a real life situation, I cant answer for the lad in question but neither can you, Im sure you will think of a way to criticise me for trying to defend the lad so ill finish now

Fyr.Fytr

No i see where your coming from and your entiteld to your opinion as am i. Yea guards are humans, but unlike animals we have the option of self restaint. Imagine a firefighter running into a blazing house by himself, no ba and no hose because someone is inside, doesnt happen, becuase the concequences will more then likely be grave for him and the person in the house. he dons the appropiate gear, gets a partner and enters with a charged hose and attempts to rescue the person in the safest possible manner, just using another emergency service example there to put it in prespective

Sufficent training is given to es personelle so they cope with situations civillians wouldnt be able to cope with in a controlled safe manner

Jay112

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

No i see where your coming from and your entiteld to your opinion as am i. Yea guards are humans, but unlike animals we have the option of self restaint. Imagine a firefighter running into a blazing house by himself, no ba and no hose because someone is inside, doesnt happen, becuase the concequences will more then likely be grave for him and the person in the house. he dons the appropiate gear, gets a partner and enters with a charged hose and attempts to rescue the person in the safest possible manner, just using another emergency service example there to put it in prespective

Sufficent training is given to ex personelle so they cope with situations civillians wouldnt be able to cope with in a controlled safe manner

Thats a completely true and valid point, I couldnt agree more with you. I just felt that hoping a person was sacked from their career because they posted a heated comment on a forum was a bit unfair, i dont mean to start an argument.

Fyr.Fytr

Yes but a person who claims to be a garda promoting the breaking of the laws he swore to uphold should be turfed out (yes assault is an offence regardless who carries it out) you wouldnt have an arsonist fireman or a serial killer paramedic would you?

Jay112

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Yes but a person who claims to be a garda promoting the breaking of the laws he swore to uphold should be turfed out (yes assault is an offence regardless who carries it out) you wouldnt have an arsonist fireman or a serial killer paramedic would you?

You dont need to tell me the law, again i say im not getting sucked into an argument about it.

Fyr.Fytr

Im not arguing just posting the basis behind my post

kmart6

Disgraceful stuff altogether!

ninjasurfer1

Speaking as a civilian, if i saw a garda/gardai being assaulted by a scumbag like that, I wouldn't think any less of the gardai for giving him a taste of his own medicine (By this, I don't mean kicking him/her around the street but using enough force to make him/her think twice about doing it again).

Having been brought up to respect the gardai, it annoys me the way they are seen as the "enemy" by a lot of people that should know better.

In my opinion, if a straw poll were to be carried out, you would see a lot of ordinary people support that scumbag having being taught a lesson or two (again, within reason).

Just my two cents in this discussion.

Mutz

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

....

Having been brought up to respect the gardai, it annoys me the way they are seen as the "enemy" by a lot of people that should know better.

..

Education.

Fyr.Fytr

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

Speaking as a civilian, if i saw a garda/gardai being assaulted by a scumbag like that, I wouldn't think any less of the gardai for giving him a taste of his own medicine (By this, I don't mean kicking him/her around the street but using enough force to make him/her think twice about doing it again).

Having been brought up to respect the gardai, it annoys me the way they are seen as the "enemy" by a lot of people that should know better.

In my opinion, if a straw poll were to be carried out, you would see a lot of ordinary people support that scumbag having being taught a lesson or two (again, within reason).

Just my two cents in this discussion.

Do not get me wrong, im all in favor of gardai using reasonable froce to control the suspect and effect the arrest.

But this thing of getting him after and kicking 7 shades out of him is bang out of line

ninjasurfer1

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Do not get me wrong, im all in favor of gardai using reasonable froce to control the suspect and effect the arrest.

But this thing of getting him after and kicking 7 shades out of him is bang out of line

Agreed (to a certain extent), but knowing that he'll probably get a short sentence and be out causing potential injury/damage to both the gardai and ordinary civilians doesn't really fill me full of confidence in the judicial systems ability to effectively deal with his type.

Maybe if the official punishments were to include things like caning,the likes of him might think twice about doing it again.(eg. Singapore (which has caning as a punishment) has one of the lowest reoffending rates in the world).

Let the punishment fit the crime, i say.

kmart6

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

Agreed (to a certain extent), but knowing that he'll probably get a short sentence and be out causing potential injury/damage to both the gardai and ordinary civilians doesn't really fill me full of confidence in the judicial systems ability to effectively deal with his type.

Maybe if the official punishments were to include things like caning,the likes of him might think twice about doing it again.(eg. Singapore (which has caning as a punishment) has one of the lowest reoffending rates in the world).

Let the punishment fit the crime, i say.

Think that day's well gone in this country!

utick

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Do not get me wrong, im all in favor of gardai using reasonable froce to control the suspect and effect the arrest.

But this thing of getting him after and kicking 7 shades out of him is bang out of line

in an ideal world i would agree with you but the days of judges dealing with scumbags has long gone, if you want justice these days you pretty much have to get your own

Eru

Relax the lot of you. The three are recovering at home just fine, the scumbags facing a nice stretch and law and order prevailed once again.

I disagree with what a lot of people are saying here on both sides of the debate but lets remember theres the world of difference between doing what you need to do in the situation and giving someone a revenge kicking.

Oh and I find people that have never had a fist raised in anger against them nor had to use force for the greater good now monday morning quarterbacking a bit lame too be honest.

Fyr.Fytr

Good to have your input karlitos as im sure you know the area, members and the scrote alot better then we do.

Is it likely he will get a decent stretch yea? No chance of a weekend in prision and a few bob in the court poor box?



once again to clarify, no problem with defending yourself, your colleagues or members of the public, but as you put it a revenge kicking no way.

Granted i am not a member of the guards or been in a situation like this as a garda but have been assaulted and been offered by freinds etc to find the scrote in question and give him a hiding, despite the temptation i went down the other route and it worked out better as it didnt lead to tit for tat type situation arising

Eru

Hes facing a lot of charges and that was why they went in to lift him in the first place and yes I do know them, nice guys and not the 'kick em when they are cuffed' type at all.

I agree, revenge kicking or hitting a prison when they are cuffed or in a cell is a cowards way of dealing with something, it shows your werent capable and took it personally. Neither a good thing.

My point is when your backs against the wall, your outnumbered, no sign of backup and quite frankly your justifiable ****ting yourself because your seconds away from some free plastic surgery your instincts and survival traits kick in. Your going to lash out, your going to be pumped with adrenaline and your going to react as a human being. The difference for Gardai is we cant run away and we went into the situation not away from it. Primarily because its what were paid for but also because sane or not its what we believe is right.

Anyway, he wasnt kicked all the way to the station so its a mute point.

CiaranC wrote: »

How does one 17 year old beat up three Gardai I wonder? Seems odd.

Clarify that underhanded and snide remark please. Regardless of reading the article incorrectly there was without doubt an accusation in that question

Fyr.Fytr

good stuff, glad to hear hell be going down.

as for the officers i dont think a single person on here questioned them, just some numpty claiming to be a guard came on and condoned giving him a hiding.

Glad to hear you feel them same way about revenge kickings etc

If you have to defend yourself you have to defend yourself simple as and no one disagreed again it was the said nnumpty we disagreed with

And fair play to the lot of ye country wide for doing the job, the majority of the public agree with the work you do and how you do it

And glad to hear he wasnt given a hiding, shows the professionalism of modern gardai

eroo

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

Agreed (to a certain extent), but knowing that he'll probably get a short sentence and be out causing potential injury/damage to both the gardai and ordinary civilians doesn't really fill me full of confidence in the judicial systems ability to effectively deal with his type.

Maybe if the official punishments were to include things like caning,the likes of him might think twice about doing it again.(eg. Singapore (which has caning as a punishment) has one of the lowest reoffending rates in the world).

Let the punishment fit the crime, i say.

In Iran, you can be stoned to death for a serious offence. Tell me how that is justice?Thankfully, we live in a democratic State. So, we aren't liable to be physically harmed as punishment. I'm more than happy with that, who wouldn't be?

As regards what karlitos said he couldn't be more right, when the **** hits the fan, survival mode kicks in. Everybody has experienced it, regardless of your occupation/age/sex etc. However, kicking lumps out of a fella because you are constantly dealing with his antics is unprofessional, as well as cowardly. If a police officer was to act like that, he would be no better than the lout who goes looking for fights on a Saturday night. Gardai are human, most people couldn't hit somebody because they feel it's wrong and they despise that sort of behaviour. Only in a situation where you are at a serious risk, will most people use force. I think it can be said Gardai fall into that category. As I said, they are human too!!

ninjasurfer1

eroo wrote: »

In Iran, you can be stoned to death for a serious offence. Tell me how that is justice?Thankfully, we live in a democratic State. So, we aren't liable to be physically harmed as punishment. I'm more than happy with that, who wouldn't be?QUOTE]

America (as an example) is a democratic state and they have the death penalty (extreme example i know) as a punishment so I'm not sure what you mean by implying officially sanctioned physical punishment does not occur in "democratic States".


Anyway, to get back on thread, nobody here (to date) condones "revenge" beatings by gardai (even on scumbags like this guy). The professionalism of gardai isn't in question, but the official punishments being given to these scumbags is.

I do think that if physical punishments were brought in (obviously with adequate safeguards in place to prevent misuse), it might deter some of the scumbags out there from going around assaulting civilians/gardai.

Like in schools years ago (showing my age i know!!), if you gave abuse to the teachers, you learned a lesson via the cane/ruler not to do it again. Nowadays, they get counselling to deal with their anger issues???????

What do the rest of ye think? Are we gone too soft for our society's own good?

Fyr.Fytr

Deleted User wrote: »

Electronic tagging?

Electrocution would be too good for them. Scumbags. Should be given a year in mountjoy and a good beating by the three Gardai.

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

If i went to that assistance call after what he did that young fella would have been arriving in the a&e department of james's a few moments after the injured members, juvenile or no juvenile. No doubt the bleeding hearts of society will make some sob story up for him when he goes for sentence, drink at home/drugs/ no one loves him bla bla bla. Sure St "butlins" Pats Institute will be a great laugh for him, he's probably a hero in Mary's Mansions atm. If the members had used their asp on him then the next headline would have been about Gardai hitting juveniles with batons - members cant win. The court system needs to give this sc*umbag a hard sentence to reflect the seriousness of what he's done - when this happens then maybe people will realise that is you assault a member you will be dealt with hard by the courts, until that happens then its sad to say that this is something we are going to be reading about and hearing in work on a regular basis.

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

eroo wrote: »

In Iran, you can be stoned to death for a serious offence. Tell me how that is justice?Thankfully, we live in a democratic State. So, we aren't liable to be physically harmed as punishment. I'm more than happy with that, who wouldn't be?

America (as an example) is a democratic state and they have the death penalty (extreme example i know) as a punishment so I'm not sure what you mean by implying officially sanctioned physical punishment does not occur in "democratic States".


Anyway, to get back on thread, nobody here (to date) condones "revenge" beatings by gardai (even on scumbags like this guy). The professionalism of gardai isn't in question, but the official punishments being given to these scumbags is.

I do think that if physical punishments were brought in (obviously with adequate safeguards in place to prevent misuse), it might deter some of the scumbags out there from going around assaulting civilians/gardai.

Like in schools years ago (showing my age i know!!), if you gave abuse to the teachers, you learned a lesson via the cane/ruler not to do it again. Nowadays, they get counselling to deal with their anger issues???????

What do the rest of ye think? Are we gone too soft for our society's own good?

The first two above are!

I see both sides of the coin, kids theses days do feel they can get away with anything in schools or on the streets with little possibility of retrubtion.

I attended school after teachers stopped slapping but im not some tear away hoodlum now am i?

I think its a slippery slope when the law is taken into indiviuals hands, back in the day some gardai, teachers etc were no better then common thugs themselfs, on power trips handing out beatings, can happily say i prefer things now to be honest, bad as things may seem atleast our public servants operate in a professional civilised manner, long may it continue

djtechnics1210

deadwood wrote: »

Very disappointed to see a comment like this from someone claiming to be a Garda.

I'm sure you'll try to put it some kind of context now but I think you've shown your true colours.

We're treading a fine line posting on this site and this type of comment draws negative attention to the forum and Gardai as a whole.

I, for one, won't be associated with a member who publicly condones this type of activity.

Members have enough to contend with, contesting vexatious complaints and negative press from certain media and political elements without these hardman threats being published by a member. You have given them a stick with which they will gladly beat you and your colleagues.

You're obviously new to this job but won't last long with that attitude and the force and public will be better off as a result.

I post here for fun, information and to give hopeful applicants, other emergency services and the public an insight to our job. I hoped to show that we're not violent, uneducated right wing yokels.

You've given them an insight into the type of attitude we have tried to eradicate for years, but certain elements wish to perpetuate.

Best of luck to members of all the services on this site. I won't be posting again but i'll watch with interest.

Look after the public and they'll look after you.

apologies - it read wrong what i meant to say and reading back it reads totally the opposite of what i meant, i do not condone violence in rank and file and i am totally against violence being used when it is uncalled for (i have edited my entry to read properly what i meant)- i am stating the fact that now on a day to day basis members are faced with tough decisions when it comes to using force and a lot of people fear the after math of using force during confrontation - i was merely indicating that i would use force (of course in accordance with necessity, proportionality and legality) if faced with one member on the floor after being kicked in the face and surrounded by 15 people baying for them. i would use proportionate force as was necessary so as get through that crowd to rescue the 2 members that were circled - but maybe im wrong for having the attitude that i would use proportionate force rather then see a fellow member receive another kick to the face.

djtechnics1210

In reply to a lot of posts
Just to clarify i am totally against any type of violence towards a prisoner. once a person is in cuffs and arrested the job/goal is achieved. At the end of the day no person is going to go out to beat up prisoners - cause lets face the fact that first of all its highly illegal and unprofessional and also why would you do it when you know you will lose your job over it. But i would not stand by and see a member kicked/beatin etc. Of course i wouldn't kick 7 types of sh*t out of any person but i would use as much force as legally necessary to ensure that the 2 members were safe (priority), that the crowd were dispersed and then id worry about the prisoner being arrested.
Once one member knew who he was id be happy to let him run off into the night just as long as the injured member was gotten out of the situation safely - he could be arrested later.

djtechnics1210

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

No i see where your coming from and your entiteld to your opinion as am i. Yea guards are humans, but unlike animals we have the option of self restaint. Imagine a firefighter running into a blazing house by himself, no ba and no hose because someone is inside, doesnt happen, becuase the concequences will more then likely be grave for him and the person in the house. he dons the appropiate gear, gets a partner and enters with a charged hose and attempts to rescue the person in the safest possible manner, just using another emergency service example there to put it in prespective

Sufficent training is given to es personelle so they cope with situations civillians wouldnt be able to cope with in a controlled safe manner

I know gardai that have jumped into the rivers around ireland including the liffey without ropes etc (a couple were in full uniform) - they weren't qualified lifeguards - but they still went in and because of that people are alive. I know another member that entered into a burning house with no BA or hose because a child was upstairs (also the fact he didn't have them is because patrol cars don't have BA's or hose's in the boot) - he wasn't a fireman, but he still went in and a child that should have been dead is now alive because of his bravery. Very rarely things trained for go to plan when it outside a training environment

djtechnics1210

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

good stuff, glad to hear hell be going down.

as for the officers i dont think a single person on here questioned them, just some numpty claiming to be a guard came on and condoned giving him a hiding.

Glad to hear you feel them same way about revenge kickings etc

i

To clarify FYR. FYTR I never actually condoned the person being assaulted. I wouldn't wish for any person to be assaulted no matter what they had or had not done.
When you do join the force and you walk around a corner in the middle of the night in an area where no one is going to help you and you need to arrest someone and are then encircled by 15 people after your partner just being kicked in the face, and all thats between you and a possible bed in ICU is an issued extendable baton which will no doubt make the situation worse if you draw it (plus its always in the back of your head that it could well in fact be used against you if you draw it and its taken off you) and those sirens in the distance containing members are your nearest help but you have that feeling that their never going to arrive in time and a minute feels like an hour. Every twitch from the crowd makes you feel like your going to be assaulted and that wall behind you doesn't move even though you wished it did. Come back to me then and we'll talk about these type of situations

JcDubz4life

CiaranC wrote: »

KKV, you should just move to Saudi Arabia or Myanmar if you want to live under that kind of police.

How does one 17 year old beat up three Gardai I wonder? Seems odd.

Because the 3 gaurds might as well be punch bags because god forbid they would use ANY physical force on him (do gooders have a field day on the gaurds ''drink at home'' etc. as was pointed out) And i know a lot of 17 yr olds fully capable of hammering a fully grown man never mind a Ban Gaurd

Fyr.Fytr

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

To clarify FYR. FYTR I never actually condoned the person being assaulted. I wouldn't wish for any person to be assaulted no matter what they had or had not done.
When you do join the force and you walk around a corner in the middle of the night in an area where no one is going to help you and you need to arrest someone and are then encircled by 15 people after your partner just being kicked in the face, and all thats between you and a possible bed in ICU is an issued extendable baton which will no doubt make the situation worse if you draw it (plus its always in the back of your head that it could well in fact be used against you if you draw it and its taken off you) and those sirens in the distance containing members are your nearest help but you have that feeling that their never going to arrive in time and a minute feels like an hour. Every twitch from the crowd makes you feel like your going to be assaulted and that wall behind you doesn't move even though you wished it did. Come back to me then and we'll talk about these type of situations

Thank you for clarifying, i got the wrong end of the stick it seems. Ive said time and time again in that situation by all means use the asp to defend yourself and your colleagues. The bone i had to pick was i thought you were condoning a revenge kicking so to speak, which i now know you are not. So its all good

djtechnics1210

Fyr.Fytr we'll let sleeping dogs lye as they say, its my own fault i should have made my comments clearer cause it read very bad to be honest. it all ended good in the end anyway - no one was seriously injured.

deadwood

Like I said, i'd be checking in.
Glad to see your post has been altered. I will give you the benefit of the doubt! I have tried to edit my own response to reflect this but can't at this stage.

Now you understand why, sometimes, you'd better stand back and weigh a situation up first before wading in - posting here included (mea culpa in this regard also).