Study of Near-death Experiences...

kelly1 · 18-09-2008 8:15am #1

This could be interesting...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7621608.stm

Interesting that they're open to the possibility that consciousness could exist outside the body.

God bless,
Noel.

Zombrex · 18-09-2008 8:22am

It is a good, clever, way of studying it, similar to how a scientists often test paranormal claims of people, such as the claim that they can "see" people in other rooms or "see" medical problems inside of people.

It shouldn't really be surprising that the scientists are researching it in this way, scientists don't rule things out before they test them. In fact that is what science really is, ruling things out by testing them.

What will be very interesting is if anyone passes the test, thus falsifying the current model that the human consciousness or perception system is in the physical location of the human brain. I think this is highly unlikely to happen, but it would be very interesting none the less.

I'm curious how Christians view things like out of body experiences. My understanding is that the classical Christian view of the "soul" wasn't really like a floating spirit type thing that can detach from the body?

kelly1 · 18-09-2008 10:17am

Wicknight wrote: »

I'm curious how Christians view things like out of body experiences. My understanding is that the classical Christian view of the "soul" wasn't really like a floating spirit type thing that can detach from the body?

I certainly believe the spirit is perfectly capable of existing without the body but it will not feel complete until it is reunited with a new glorifed body at the general judgment. After death our soul is judged and will go to Heaven or Hell (or purgatory). It will remain there (except for those who are released from purgatory into heaven) without a body until the general judgment of all mankind.
BTW, the damned will also received bodies but these will be black and ugly.

CerebralCortex · 18-09-2008 10:50am

kelly1 wrote: »

...BTW, the damned will also received bodies but these will be black and ugly.

Really? The bodies we receive we will have them for eternity? Is there a description of what heavenly bodies will be like? I'm honestly curious btw. It will be interesting to see what this research brings up.

Dades · 18-09-2008 10:50am

I'll be the first to admit the problem with a test like the one they describe with upward facing pictures is easy to discredit. An 'accomplice' equipped with a chair can easily find and pass information (even subliminally) to a recovered patient. This is an unlikely scenario, but more unlikely than a consciousness floating above the room?

The price of skepticism!

kelly1 wrote: »

BTW, the damned will also received bodies but these will be black and ugly.

Can I be Morgan Freeman?

JimiTime · 18-09-2008 11:00am

kelly1 wrote: »

BTW, the damned will also received bodies but these will be black and ugly.

Where does this info come from?

Fanny Cradock · 18-09-2008 11:33am

Wicknight wrote: »

I'm curious how Christians view things like out of body experiences. My understanding is that the classical Christian view of the "soul" wasn't really like a floating spirit type thing that can detach from the body?

I'd be very sceptical of out of body claims myself. More likely this 'tunnel sensation' is brought on by oxygen starvation in the brain or some such. Lazarus aside, in my view, you are either dead or you aren't. This seems to be a problem with defining death and has nothing to do with the soul detaching itself from the body. But I don't say that with any authority, though.

The study just has too many presuppositions. For instance, that the spirit floats upwards, not to the right or left or into a metaphysical realm. Or that it will rise high enough to read such things.

Interesting, but doomed to failure, methinks.

kelly1 · 18-09-2008 11:39am

Several years back, my dad, to my complete shock, told me that when he was a child, he had the ability to leave his body and fly about at the speed of a helicopter. So when he was playing hide-and-go-seek, he was able to search for the other children while his body still lay on the ground. He said that when he wanted to go back into his body, it would happen instantly. My father is not one for telling fables, he's very firmly grounded!

CHD · 18-09-2008 11:42am

kelly1 wrote: »

I certainly believe the spirit is perfectly capable of existing without the body but it will not feel complete until it is reunited with a new glorifed body at the general judgment. After death our soul is judged and will go to Heaven or Hell (or purgatory). It will remain there (except for those who are released from purgatory into heaven) without a body until the general judgment of all mankind.
BTW, the damned will also received bodies but these will be black and ugly.

Seriously?

MrPudding · 18-09-2008 11:44am

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Lazarus aside,

Of course.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

The study just has too many presuppositions. For instance, that the spirit floats upwards, not to the right or left or into a metaphysical realm.Or that it will rise high enough to read such things.

I am quite sceptical myself about the whole thing in general, and as Dades points out, the whole thing could be open to abuse. But on the subject of the pictures on shelves I think they are to specifically address the point that a lot of people reporting out of body experiences say that they look down on themselves from the ceiling. If you are trying to test this then the pictures are actually quite reasonable. I think it would be quite hard to test someone's spirit moving to a metaphysical realm, but getting stuck to the ceiling should be possible. They are testing what they can.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Interesting, but doomed to failure, methinks.

I agree, but I applaud them for being open minded enough to make the effort.

MrP

MrPudding · 18-09-2008 11:45am

kelly1 wrote: »

BTW, the damned will also received bodies but these will be black and ugly.

What is wrong with being black?

MrP

10goto20 · 18-09-2008 11:46am

kelly1 wrote: »

he's very firmly grounded!

uh -huh. Thats right.

CerebralCortex · 18-09-2008 12:34pm

kelly1 wrote: »

Several years back, my dad, to my complete shock, told me that when he was a child, he had the ability to leave his body and fly about at the speed of a helicopter. So when he was playing hide-and-go-seek, he was able to search for the other children while his body still lay on the ground. He said that when he wanted to go back into his body, it would happen instantly. My father is not one for telling fables, he's very firmly grounded!

No offense Kelly1 but do you actually believe that? I'm all for astral projection don't get me wrong but that sounds like a fable.

MrPudding · 18-09-2008 12:58pm

CerebralCortex wrote: »

...... but that sounds like a fable.

Just think for a second.....

MrP

CerebralCortex · 18-09-2008 1:02pm

MrPudding wrote: »

Just think for a second.....

MrP

....yep its a fable.

kelly1 · 18-09-2008 1:09pm

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Really? The bodies we receive we will have them for eternity? Is there a description of what heavenly bodies will be like? I'm honestly curious btw. It will be interesting to see what this research brings up.

I can't find the quote in scripture right now, but I'm certain that it does mention the resurrection on the just and the damned alike.

I'm basing the appearance of the bodies of the damned on reason and private revelations to saints like Lucia of Fatima and Faustina of Poland. If the just recieve glorious bodies, the damned can expect the opposite.

Gone West · 18-09-2008 1:13pm

kelly1 wrote: »

BTW, the damned will also received bodies but these will be black and ugly.

Can you elaborate on this?

MrPudding · 18-09-2008 1:22pm

CerebralCortex wrote: »

....yep its a fable.

I was commenting more on the fact that you seemed to be surprised that Kelly1 believed a fable.

MrP

CerebralCortex · 18-09-2008 1:44pm

MrPudding wrote: »

I was commenting more on the fact that you seemed to be surprised that Kelly1 believed a fable.

MrP

Well he seems so serious about christianity I thought that he had all his beliefs tied up with that.

Goduznt Xzst · 18-09-2008 2:16pm

kelly1 wrote: »

Several years back, my dad, to my complete shock, told me that when he was a child, he had the ability to leave his body and fly about at the speed of a helicopter. So when he was playing hide-and-go-seek, he was able to search for the other children while his body still lay on the ground. He said that when he wanted to go back into his body, it would happen instantly. My father is not one for telling fables, he's very firmly grounded!

I've literally written 4 or 5 responses to this but none of them seemed apt.

My father is "firmly grounded" also, but he used to tell me that there where castles on top of the clouds to spark my imagination. However I don't believe those castles are still there now.

kelly1 · 18-09-2008 5:01pm

CerebralCortex wrote: »

No offense Kelly1 but do you actually believe that? I'm all for astral projection don't get me wrong but that sounds like a fable.

I've no reason not to believe him and I do believe souls are capable of leaving the body. He's not the kind of man to make up stories and he's certainly no into new-age stuff.

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Well he seems so serious about christianity I thought that he had all his beliefs tied up with that.

Astral Projection is not something I'd ever mess with and I would imagine it could get someone into spiritual hot water. My dad was very young at the time 5-7 and he never heard about it from anyone else, it just happended naturally, he said.

PDN · 18-09-2008 9:01pm

kelly1 wrote: »

BTW, the damned will also received bodies but these will be black and ugly.

Noel, do you realise how offensive and racist that sounds?

Several years back, my dad, to my complete shock, told me that when he was a child, he had the ability to leave his body and fly about at the speed of a helicopter. So when he was playing hide-and-go-seek, he was able to search for the other children while his body still lay on the ground. He said that when he wanted to go back into his body, it would happen instantly. My father is not one for telling fables, he's very firmly grounded!

Someone who flies around like a helicopter might be many things, but "well grounded" seems a singularly inappropriate description.

CerebralCortex · 18-09-2008 11:54pm

kelly1 wrote: »

Astral Projection is not something I'd ever mess with and I would imagine it could get someone into spiritual hot water...

Why is that? I can't imagine how it would get you in trouble. What harm does it cause?

kelly1 · 19-09-2008 8:19am

PDN wrote: »

Noel, do you realise how offensive and racist that sounds?

That's not the way I intended it to sound. I'm not at all racist. But how would you expect the resurrected bodies of the damned to look? They're hardly going to be beautiful and fully of light, are they?

Just imagine I'd used the word dark instead of black.

Akrasia · 19-09-2008 12:27pm

kelly1 wrote: »

I've no reason not to believe him and I do believe souls are capable of leaving the body. He's not the kind of man to make up stories and he's certainly no into new-age stuff.

Did he tell you santa was real too? Do you have any reason not to believe him about that?

why did your fathers ability end when he was a child? It seems like it could be a very useful hobby to keep up as an adult.

Fanny Cradock · 19-09-2008 1:37pm

Oh my! That picture was unnecessary.

Good call on removing it!

Goduznt Xzst · 19-09-2008 1:47pm

kelly1 wrote: »

My dad was very young at the time 5-7 and he never heard about it from anyone else, it just happened naturally, he said.

Yeah that certainly is odd? I don't know of any 5-7 year olds that have a vivid imagination... oh wait!

Galvasean · 19-09-2008 3:24pm

Strange that he would lose this amazing ability as he grew rather than learn to use it.

..and become a SUPER-HERO!!!

Fanny Cradock · 19-09-2008 4:22pm

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

...

:Off Topic:
I realise that it is tongue in cheek, but I find it a little - just a little - disturbing that you deface a masterpiece in your sig to signify that you find the notion of God preposterous.
:Off Topic:

Zombrex · 19-09-2008 10:54pm

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

:Off Topic:
I realise that it is tongue in cheek, but I find it a little - just a little - disturbing that you deface a masterpiece in your sig to signify that you find the notion of God preposterous.
:Off Topic:

I agree with you that Transformers is a masterpiece, there is no doubting that, but I think Galvasean is being appropriate in how he displays the image.

Fanny Cradock · 20-09-2008 12:31am

I think the gratuitous shot of energon juice could corrupt our youth. For shame, Galvasean.

Goduznt Xzst · 22-09-2008 9:25am

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

:Off Topic:
I realise that it is tongue in cheek, but I find it a little - just a little - disturbing that you deface a masterpiece in your sig to signify that you find the notion of God preposterous.
:Off Topic:

you view it as a masterpiece, I view it as propaganda

all joking aside, I didn't do it, you'd be surprised to find that there are a lot more people out there that would like to see the idea of a god removed from societies consciousness.

Would this picture suit you better?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg

Study of Near-death Experiences...

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