Intentional or mistake - Isreali attack on US ship 1967

McArmalite

Recently came across an article about the Isreali attack on the USS LIberty by Israeli fighter planes and torpedo boats on June 8, 1967. The Isrealis claim it was an attack in error, an excuse that would sound plausible as you'd hardly expect them to attack what's not just their ally, but effectively thier lifeline for existence, America. This excuse was offically accepted by the American govt.

However, the sailors on board the USS Liberty tell an entirely different story. They claim that several American flags were flying and were clearly visible in the wind before, during and after the attack. Also there was the clearly marked USS Liberty markings adorning the ship.

They also say that after the Liberty had been torpedoed, Israeli boats circled the ship firing machine guns at the unmanned life rafts and sailors on board. The sailors claim that the attack lasted 2 hours, Israelis claim they recognized the ship as American immediately after it was hit and ceased fire.

Also fighter aircraft were launched from nearby U.S. aircraft carriers but were recalled by the Secretary of Defense (Robert McNamara), as he had ordered that the aircraft be returned to the carrier, which was done.

Agian it must be repaeted, the Isrealis claim it was all in error, but others speculate that it was an agreed plan between the US and Isreal to sink the ship with complete loss of life - then blame it on the Egyptians allowing the U.S. in turn to launch some attacks on Egypt. But because the Liberty did not sink after two hours, the plan was reversed, Israel apologized for the case of mistaken identity, and a cover-up put into place

So, what's your thoughts, mistake or deliberate ??

More details from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident#Details_in_dispute and here's a TV documentary with the survivors about the incident http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/18.html

merrionsq

Saw a TV documentary about it a few years ago. I notice certain anti-US/anti-Israel types suddenly show sympathy with America when using this case as a reason to bash Israel.

The Liberty was basically spying on radio communications. One theory I heard was that the Israeli's were worried about their plans being overheard, and reckoned it was worth sinking the Liberty to prevent this. E.g. plans to attack Golan Heights, break ceasefire or massacre Egyption prisoners in the Sinai.

Worth bearing in mind that although that the US and Israel weren't as closely allied back then.

The incident is a bit of an oddity, but had little effect on international relations.

pablomakaveli

The israelis have always carried out brazen attacks. i have to say i havent heard about the one mention above but it wouldnt surprise me if it was intentional.

around the time of the foundation of israel they stole tanks from the british and even stole gunboats from the french.

then there was the mossad assassinations of palestinians and arabs,in retaliation for munich , which were carried out in europe.

and the air attack on an iraqi nuclear power station.

the israelis have always done things like this and whats worse they tend to get away with them as well.

Snickers Man

merrionsq wrote: »

Saw a TV documentary about it a few years ago. I notice certain anti-US/anti-Israel types suddenly show sympathy with America when using this case as a reason to bash Israel.

The Liberty was basically spying on radio communications. One theory I heard was that the Israeli's were worried about their plans being overheard, and reckoned it was worth sinking the Liberty to prevent this. E.g. plans to attack Golan Heights, break ceasefire or massacre Egyption prisoners in the Sinai.

Worth bearing in mind that although that the US and Israel weren't as closely allied back then.

The incident is a bit of an oddity, but had little effect on international relations.

I remember reading about the theory that it was to silence the Liberty which was snooping on Israeli communications and might have learned of a massacre of Egyptian prisoners, not an attempt to bring the US into the war against Egypt.

Interesting what you say about Israel and the US not being particularly close then. I don't think there was ever a time when the two countries were NOT close, but I have often wondered why the Israeli air force at the time tended to fly French built jets, like the Mirage. None of that now. It's all American hardware they fly.

brianthebard

While its true that Israel needs the US, the US needs the Zionist state just as much or perhaps even more. Perhaps Israel was sending a message to the US, that although they were allies Israel didn't intend on being subservient?

merrionsq

Snickers Man wrote: »

Interesting what you say about Israel and the US not being particularly close then. I don't think there was ever a time when the two countries were NOT close, but I have often wondered why the Israeli air force at the time tended to fly French built jets, like the Mirage. None of that now. It's all American hardware they fly.

That's a noticeable part of it. Israel and France went through a period of close relations in the 1950s. Growing Arab control over their oil resources was one factor which made the French rethink this. There was always American sympathy with Israel, but relations were not always as close today, where they provide them with military equipment etc. America was trying to keep influence in the region - they didn't ally themselves fully with Israel so as not to anger the Arab states. Israel's determination to keep territory won in 1967 also turned some people off them.

In Yom Kippur 1972, when the Soviets gave explicit backing and military hardware to Egypt and Syria, the US, eventually did the same for Israel.

As for Israel stealing equipment from the British and the French. You may be referring to Israels first war (independence) when they were not yet a state and had no equipment

SlabMurphy

pablomakaveli wrote: »

The israelis have always carried out brazen attacks. i have to say i havent heard about the one mention above but it wouldnt surprise me if it was intentional.

around the time of the foundation of israel they stole tanks from the british and even stole gunboats from the french.

then there was the mossad assassinations of palestinians and arabs,in retaliation for munich , which were carried out in europe.

and the air attack on an iraqi nuclear power station.

the israelis have always done things like this and whats worse they tend to get away with them as well.

" around the time of the foundation of israel they stole tanks from the british and even stole gunboats from the french. " Sounds just like the excuse of how weapons from the UDR and RUC would fall into the hands of the loyalists.

" in retaliation for munich " I assert Munich was in retaliation for annexing Palestine ?? (BTW, weren't many, if not all, of the deaths caused by the bungled operation of the German coppers ? )

SlabMurphy

brianthebard wrote: »

While its true that Israel needs the US, the US needs the Zionist state just as much or perhaps even more. Perhaps Israel was sending a message to the US, that although they were allies Israel didn't intend on being subservient?

"While its true that Israel needs the US, the US needs the Zionist state just as much or perhaps even more. "

Amazing, so America receives billions of dollars every year of so callled 'aid' from Isreal ? And is it likewise that America's economy would collaspe within a week or two without this 'aid' from Isreal ?

brianthebard

There's more to the world than money slab.