What's going on?

tinabyrne5

Hi all, this is my first time posting but would like your opinion on something that happened me today.

I was just cooking dinner and i could hear a little rap on my front door, went to answer it and to my surprise my four year old daughter was standing there crying. She was supposed to be in school.:eek:

She took it upon herself to come home while they were having yard time. The road she crossed is very dangerous and could have being killed.
I can't believe nobody seen this happening as there is a number of teachers who take turns watching the kids.

Needless to say i got an awful fright and brought her back to school where the principle said that she was seen but by the time they got to where they seen her, she was gone.

I think i was still in shock by the time i got to the school and didn't get to tell them off about it.

challengemaster

You really need to complain about this. Leaving 4 year olds unsupervised and in an environment that they can leave into hazardous zones, like a busy road, is just unacceptable. If they don't like what you have to say I'd be contacting the school board of management. That's a bloody disgrace :mad:

beth-lou

tinabyrne5 wrote: »

Hi all, this is my first time posting but would like your opinion on something that happened me today.

I was just cooking dinner and i could hear a little rap on my front door, went to answer it and to my surprise my four year old daughter was standing there crying. She was supposed to be in school.:eek:

She took it upon herself to come home while they were having yard time. The road she crossed is very dangerous and could have being killed.
I can't believe nobody seen this happening as there is a number of teachers who take turns watching the kids.

Needless to say i got an awful fright and brought her back to school where the principle said that she was seen but by the time they got to where they seen her, she was gone.

I think i was still in shock by the time i got to the school and didn't get to tell them off about it.

They saw her leave and didn't think to ring you!!!????? I'd be furious! And they just let her go???? I'm almost speechless. Get back down there and let them have it. That is so dangerous and irresponsible.

Cormic

That is shocking. I am not impressed with the principle either. A bit too casual in my opionion. I have a four year old and they can disappear in a couple of seconds but the teachers should take this into account.

If my daughter did that she would also get a stern talking to as well.

dan_d

How was she in a place that she could just wander out of??!!(though i know kids can get anywhere if they really want to).And should there not be someone on yard duty???And how long did they know she was gone;if it was long, why didn't they contact you?
I'd be up in smoke right about now!!

TheDriver

I would talk calmly to the principal. INdeed they shouldn't have let her off and should have been watching he.. Try to get the real story and hear what the teachers say about this, don't go in with guns blazing initially as it will get you nowhere but be firm

Oryx

The story they told you sounds like damage limitation to me, but as has been said, allow them to explain more clearly. I realise looking after 30 or so four year olds is no easy task, but it's their job, what they have trained to do, and they should have systems in place (and gates, for goodness sake) to prevent it happening. I certainly wouldnt let it drop, its only by the grace of god your daughter was smart enough to cross the road safely and get home to you without incident.

kmart6

Oryx wrote: »

I realise looking after 30 or so four year olds is no easy task, but it's their job, what they have trained to do

I'm sure there'd be more than just the 30 four year olds, prob a full school of children, so very hard to keep an eye on every single child. And as anybody would no there's always way's to get out of any school without being spotted. Don't think the teachers/school can be fully blamed here!

jessbeth

That's appalling, the poor little thing. Firstly have a chat with her why she came home. There may be something upsetting going on at school. Secondly how in heavens name do they leave a school gate unsupervised where there are hundreds of small children who could run out and other nasties who could come in. I can't blame you for being so upset. I would be outraged too.

SnowMonkey

Hey op

the question is not why the school let her leave with out noticing, granted that shos a lotabout the perception of teachers in the yard/playground.

but why is your child runing away from schoo?l i would of thuaght thats the more important issue problem at hand....

is she being bullied? do you know if she's being bullied... She may have friends and can still be bullied...

The issuee that should be addressed, is why she is leaving school and ask her mke shore you tell her she wont get into trouble or anything.

Oryx

kmart6 wrote: »

I'm sure there'd be more than just the 30 four year olds, prob a full school of children, so very hard to keep an eye on every single child. And as anybody would no there's always way's to get out of any school without being spotted. Don't think the teachers/school can be fully blamed here!

Were talking about a new-to-school infant class here, given that this girl is 4? Surely they require a bit more watching than the rest of the school? My son's school has low walls and styles to get over them anyway, so for the first while the infant class is kept in an area away from the rough and tumble of the main yard, both so they can be more closely watched and so they dont get bumped by older kids, I presume.

I just think extra care needs to be taken with the little ones.

SnowMonkey

Oryx wrote: »

Were talking about a new-to-school infant class here, given that this girl is 4? Surely they require a bit more watching than the rest of the school? My son's school has low walls and styles to get over them anyway, so for the first while the infant class is kept in an area away from the rough and tumble of the main yard, both so they can be more closely watched and so they dont get bumped by older kids, I presume.

I just think extra care needs to be taken with the little ones.

pleas elook at the bigger picture here..... Kids dont just leave school for no reason turning up at your door crying there eyes out.....



Op here's acount of what happened to me as a child i never had th guts to do what your daughter did but it shows she has strength at an early age respect

soethng happend to that pooor munchskin and thats why she left school not because she can, kids are genrally affraid of authority and dont question it she broke that...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055376909

im not trying to shock you but its something to take notice of....
.

spurious

This is a serious security issue for your child's school.
I teach in a school with kids aged 12-18 and we lock the gates at small break to stop any of them taking 'unauthorised leave'.
Astonishing that a child can wander off - I wonder would they have noticed if a person had come along and taken her?

If she had been seen leaving and before they got to her she was gone, the first thing they should have done was rung you to tell you what had happened. What if you had not been at home?

beth-lou

Lots of kids try to run out of school simply because they want to be home with Mammy.
I think the big issue is that
1. They let her go when she was in the line of sight.
2. They didn't go out and look for her
3. They didn't ring the Mam to look out for her child.

3 Huge screw ups.

beth-lou

SnowMonkey wrote: »

pleas elook at the bigger picture here..... Kids dont just leave school for no reason turning up at your door crying there eyes out.....



Op here's acount of what happened to me as a child i never had th guts to do what your daughter did but it shows she has strength at an early age respect

soethng happend to that pooor munchskin and thats why she left school not because she can, kids are genrally affraid of authority and dont question it she broke that...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055376909

im not trying to shock you but its something to take notice of....
.

What happened to you may or may not be the case here. I would be more inclined to think that it wasn't.

SnowMonkey

beth-lou wrote: »

Lots of kids try to run out of school simply because they want to be home with Mammy.
I think the big issue is that
1. They let her go when she was in the line of sight.
2. They didn't go out and look for her
3. They didn't ring the Mam to look out for her child.

3 Huge screw ups.

Im sorry i dissagree completely kids dont "just RUN away " from school.
Things have to happen in order to make her be so well she's a four year old...
she must have a reason to leave school like that and im sorry i think you misstaken....

I agree about how could the shool let this happen....

but its not just the school....its other things to

SnowMonkey

beth-lou wrote: »

What happened to you may or may not be the case here. I would be more inclined to think that it wasn't.

grsnted i had a bad time in school and what happened to me was once. off.

but at the same time the question in my head is what made the kid run?
that's the bigger question here

why ?

kids dont leave sacntuary to go some where else.
Kids dont dissobey rule's
Kids dont do that sort of thing unless osmehting is driveing them, and that would be something she didnt like.
if she done it once its easy for her to do it again there is soemthing not right and i do understand that wanting to be at home with mammy is a nice place but im sorry it dont wash with me i theres a lot more to this case then meets the eye...

beth-lou

Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't.
You can't transfer your own negative experience on to this child.
At 4 years of age the impulse to be at home with Mammy where it is safe and there aren't lots of people could be enough to send her running home.
Or maybe not. It is up to Tina to find out.

By the way I am sorry for what happened to you. It must have been awful.

i-digress

SnowMonkey wrote: »

pleas elook at the bigger picture here..... Kids dont just leave school for no reason turning up at your door crying there eyes out.....


.

Starting school is hard on kids, my sister cries going into school (she's 4 too) because she wants to be at home with Mum. Lots of kids this age are the same, I'm sure she's not the first kid to do this. It's probably nothing more than the girl missing her Mum. The main issue is that she could have been killed due to the school's negligence, it is totally their fault.

SnowMonkey

beth-lou wrote: »

Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't.
You can't transfer your own negative experience on to this child.
At 4 years of age the impulse to be at home with Mammy where it is safe and there aren't lots of people could be enough to send her running home.
Or maybe not. It is up to Tina to find out.

By the way I am sorry for what happened to you. It must have been awful.

Im not transfering any negitive experence onto any child!
I'm just giving another ideal to whats going on..

Yes i agree it is safe at home with mammy, but I just find it a little odd.

You didnt do anything so no need to say your sorry you could wish me luck insted ...

eather way

marti101

Go to the school and ask why you werent informed my bet is they thought they would get her and you would be none the wiser.Call and make an appointment so you wont get interupted write down your questions and wait for the response.Kids are ingenious of finding ways out at that age she probably missed you and in any case even if she was being bullied its still the schools job to make sure their students are safe as they are the parents while the kids are in school.Get it sorted now and find out if anything else happened to any other child.If still not happy go to the school board usually the school liasion officer can help here.In this instance they have the authority to go over the head and report it.You dont have to tell the head you are going to the board but dont threaten it unless you are going.My heart goes out to you because it is negligance on their behalf.Also find out if there was a report when they realised that she was missing what they did etx and work from there.

Alicat

I don't think the main issue is "why did the child leave the school grounds", she's 4, she's probably only started school. It can be very scary starting school. Of course she'd make her way home given half the chance! Just cause she wanted to go home does not mean she was being bullied. The child wanting to go home would be the least of my worries if it was my daughter. The child was probably crying because she came all the way home by herself, crossing a busy road. Bit terrifying at that age!

The big issue is how she was even let out of the front gates! I don't care if some teacher has been left out on yard duty by themselves with the all the students in the entire school, if she couldn't notice a four year old leaving through the front gates then there simply aren't enough staff on yard duty. With kids that age they need to be constantly watched.

Were the school gates left open? Or are there any gates at all?? I would be absolutely furious. If that poor child had been knocked down on the road or someone had snatched her....You leave your kids in school under the assumption that the qualified staff are going to do their utmost to protect and care for your child while on school grounds.

It was absolutely their fault and they should be grovelling something serious. I agree with other posters and think you should make an appointment to see the principal and have this discussed. It should not be brushed under the carpet and they need to reassess the school safety procedures.

kraggy

SnowMonkey wrote: »

Im not transfering any negitive experence onto any child!
I'm just giving another ideal to whats going on..

Yes i agree it is safe at home with mammy, but I just find it a little odd.

You didnt do anything so no need to say your sorry you could wish me luck insted ...

eather way

The child has been at school for the sum total of 2 and half weeks. She might not have settled in yet. It's perfectly normal. Don't be changing the issue on the OP when the issue is with the school.

OP, go in tomorrow and give the prinicpal a bollocking, IF things did indeed happen the way you say they did. But clarify things with the principal and/or teachers first before you go off on one.

tinabyrne5

Thank you all for replying to my post.:)

I am a little calmer now but am still going through the "what if" factor that comes with this.

Just to clarify, Rachael (my daughter) sometimes cries after me as i am leaving the school and tells me not to go but I'm sure I'm not the only parent who has this problem.

There was two teachers on yard duty at the time and all the children from junior infants to second class were in the yard. (about 150 kids)
The gates are never locked or even closed.

sorry, i don't know how to quote people yet kmart6 said "don't think the teachers/school can be fully blamed here"

If the school is not responsible for my child's welfare while she is in school...who is?

Whilst my child is in school, i expect them to look after her as i would when she's at home.

LegacyUser

The school and state is repsonsible for creating a safe learning environment for children.
Letting 4 year olds leave of their own accord is not acceptable.

The danger of the road is quite significant and a multiude of what-if's are popping into my head.
eg What if the child was hurt or snatched etc, you wouldnt have known for hours

A full review of the school's procedures is warrented at the board level - I cant believe the principal is taking it so lightly so far
She/he needs to be read the riot act.

St Bill

OP, you don't necessarily have to go in with all guns blazing, I'm sure there isn't one person here who hasn't turned their back on a child for seconds only to turn around and find the child gone. Multiply the child by a few hundred, and it can be seen how easy it is to happen (even with precautions in place).

Tell, don't ask, the principal you want to see what has been put in place to stop this happening again. And also tell him/her that you should have been phoned when it happened (although if you live close to the achool, they mightn't even had a chance to ring).

marti101 wrote: »

Go to the school and ask why you werent informed my bet is they thought they would get her and you would be none the wiser.

I can't imagine that any school would try and hide the fact that a child left the schoolgrounds. Schools would view a child leaving the schoolgrounds very seriously, and in situations like this, the parents would be spoken to. It's certainly not something that the school would like to see happening over and over again.

tbh

SnowMonkey wrote: »

kids dont leave sacntuary to go some where else.

Sanctuary is home

Kids dont dissobey rule's

they don't??!? :eek:

Kids dont do that sort of thing unless osmehting is driveing them, and that would be something she didnt like.

Like being away from her mammy.

if she done it once its easy for her to do it again there is soemthing not right and i do understand that wanting to be at home with mammy is a nice place but im sorry it dont wash with me i theres a lot more to this case then meets the eye...

oh come on! a four year old walks out of school to go home - there's really nothing more to it than that. I did the same thing myself once or twice.

Op, totally unacceptible on the part of the school, remember that story about the child who wandered away from his class and drowned in a park in Dublin last year? You need to make sure the principle takes this as seriously as you do, I would be asking some SERIOUS questions of the school here.

yogalady

U must have got an awful fright when u opened the door. V upsetting. I am on the other side. Teach junior infants. I was on yard duty 2day. Over 200 children in an open yard which is also the staff car park where cars are comin in and out. No other place for kids to play. We lucky to have anyplace for them to play. Sum schools don't even have that. 2 adults have 2 supervise all these kids , c 2 pupils who fall and hurt themselves , deal with fights between children , look after special needs children and keep an eye on the other 200 or so. Thats the reality unfortunately. I would imagine they deeply regret what happened and that the teachers where very upset about it 2. They probably didn't contact u st8 away as they were probably hoping she had run off sum place around the school and that they would find her and avoid alarmin u unnecessarily. Talk 2 ur child and remind her to NEVER leave school yard without u or her teacher. I bet the whole school feels terrible about what happened

Blush_01

All I can say is thank God you were at home OP. Imagine how much worse things could have been if you weren't there and she kept wandering trying to find you, getting into even more of a state.

At least she's safe now.

kmart6

tinabyrne5 wrote: »

sorry, i don't know how to quote people yet kmart6 said "don't think the teachers/school can be fully blamed here"

If the school is not responsible for my child's welfare while she is in school...who is?

Whilst my child is in school, i expect them to look after her as i would when she's at home.

As you said there was 2 teachers monitoring 150 kids! Yet your expecting one of them to monitor the gates which would leave the other to mind the majority of them. As anybody would no a school yard full of screaming little children is not something that is uneventful, there will always be little scuffles/disagreements amongst them so it's very hard for the teachers to stay on top of this.

At the end of the day any school is not a creche where your kids go to get minded for a few hours 5 days a week, it's where they go to get educated.

Surely you would expect your daughter to have the sense not to leave the grounds of her school when she know's she is there until a certain time. If not then you clearly haven't got that point across to her which is something you should have done!

Edit: P.S....msmuffins text speak is frowned upon here on boards!

Nevyn

You left your child in the care of they school, they have the responsiblity and a duty of care and they failed.

JC 2K3

Officially, it's the school's fault. Realistically, I wouldn't blame the teachers as it's likely the school has a lack of resources. Ultimately, I think the reason your child ran home from school is the most important issue here, the best protection against your child doing something like this again is knowing that she is not allowed do it and ridding her of any desire to do so again.

Please don't go and give a bollocking to the principal without understanding the full context of the issue. I'm probably biased because my mother is an ex-primary school teacher, but I firmly believe that the vast majority of teachers are good people doing their absolute best to offer a good education in a secure environment to every child they encounter, and parents often misunderstand this. I would take this as a once off and explain to the principal assertively that you hope this is never allowed happen again.

tbh

kmart6 wrote: »

Surely you would expect your daughter to have the sense not to leave the grounds of her school when she know's she is there until a certain time. If not then you clearly haven't got that point across to her which is something you should have done!

Edit: P.S....msmuffins text speak is frowned upon here on boards!

dude - the child is 4. 4 years old. Sense doesn't come into it.

Alicat

I agree that it's not specifically the teacher's fault but it is the fault of the school. At the very least there should be a locked gate preventing the children from leaving. "Sense" is not enough to keep a 4 year old child from wandering out on to the road.

Yes the OP should try to express to the child how important it is to stay in the school until her mother/parent/family member comes to get her, but she is only 4 and has probably only been in school 2/3 weeks so far. Even at home, the child will have been faced with certain restraints that prevent her from wandering; front doors, side gates, those little child proof gates at the stairs. They are all there because a child of a young age cannot accurately decide what is safe/not safe and what is wrong/not wrong.

JC I understand your point about not giving the principal a bollocking, doesn't make him/her a bad person, but as head of the school they have to take responsability and I wouldn't blame ANY parent for having a go at the principal. That is not the concern of the parent, to be 'nice' to the principal. The school was to take care of her child and they failed. They should take it on the chin and assess the problem ASAP.

JC 2K3

Alicat wrote: »

I wouldn't blame ANY parent for having a go at the principal

I would, then again, I'm not a big advocate of anyone having a go at anyone. It's quite difficult to run an institution responsible for the education and wellbeing of hundreds of little children, and becoming a principal of a school is not something that comes without years of experience. So while a child leaving the school unsupervised is unacceptable, and having a word with the principal is advisable, I would suggest doing it respectfully by means of assertively articulating one's concerns, as opposed to attacking the principal in an agressive manner.

Alicat wrote: »

That is not the concern of the parent, to be 'nice' to the principal.

No, but people seem to forget that the principal is a professional, usually with years of experience and should be treated as such. There will be mishaps and undesirable incidents in every school, but this does not mean that the principal needs, or should be subject to, abuse.

kmart6

tbh wrote: »

dude - the child is 4. 4 years old. Sense doesn't come into it.

She should still know that it's wrong to be leaving/going anywhere without someone...never mind a school her mother has left her to!

tbh

at four? Are you serious?? Do you know any four year olds?

zuroph

kmart6 wrote: »

Surely you would expect your daughter to have the sense not to leave the grounds of her school when she know's she is there until a certain time. If not then you clearly haven't got that point across to her which is something you should have done!

that is ridiculous. the kid is 4. and its september, it must only have STARTED into school, hows it to know what going on? all of a sudden its been abandoned by its mother! this is how its thinking!

Alicat

kmart6 wrote: »

She should still know that it's wrong to be leaving/going anywhere without someone...never mind a school her mother has left her to!

She's only a child. She shouldn't have even been given the opportunity to leave the school grounds. Wide open gates with no one standing there to tell her what to do!

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I would, then again, I'm not a big advocate of anyone having a go at anyone. It's quite difficult to run an institution responsible for the education and wellbeing of hundreds of little children, and becoming a principal of a school is not something that comes without years of experience. So while a child leaving the school unsupervised is unacceptable, and having a word with the principal is advisable, I would suggest doing it respectfully by means of assertively articulating one's concerns, as opposed to attacking the principal in an agressive manner.


No, but people seem to forget that the principal is a professional, usually with years of experience and should be treated as such. There will be mishaps and undesirable incidents in every school, but this does not mean that the principal needs, or should be subject to, abuse.

I never said it was right to have a go at people, what I said was I wouldn't blame a completely panicked parent for flying off the handle a bit when their child's safety and LIFE was put at risk. Ideally the OP would have a meeting with the principal in a mature and professional manner but when your own child is at risk, I don't know many parents that could keep their cool completely and not express any anger at the situation.

I'm sure the principal is professional and has years of experience but as principal they are in charge of the school. Any and all problems have to go back to them. I understand that mishaps occur, it happens all the time, and with kids it's even more unpredictable.

The thing that I really feel most strongly about in regards to this story is that there wasn't even a locked gate at the entrance. Had there been a locked gate to prevent that child from putting one toe out of the school grounds, this wouldn't have happened. I certainly wouldn't place my child in a school that allowed them to run about in an area with 150-odd other children and a wide open entrance directly onto a busy road. I don't know how it can not have come up as a problem already for the school!

JC 2K3

Alicat wrote: »

I never said it was right to have a go at people, what I said was I wouldn't blame a completely panicked parent for flying off the handle a bit when their child's safety and LIFE was put at risk. Ideally the OP would have a meeting with the principal in a mature and professional manner but when your own child is at risk, I don't know many parents that could keep their cool completely and not express any anger at the situation.

I don't really subscribe to the idea of parents being allowed extra leeway with relation to keeping their emotions under control, but that's another topic and I do understand what you're saying.

Alicat

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I don't really subscribe to the idea of parents being allowed extra leeway with relation to keeping their emotions under control, but that's another topic and I do understand what you're saying.

I don't think it's to do with them having leeway. When it involves the safety of your children, who gives a cr*p about being professional or respecting the principal? It's not like the child just tripped and grazed her knee at school. There was a very real possibility that that child could have been killed on the road or snatched by some sicko. While the OP should probably try and remain calm when talking with the school due to the fact that thankfully nothing bad happened to the little girl, she is perfectly within her rights to be angry at the people she trusted to look after her child. It's up to her how she decides to approach it but I do hope that it is in a calm, constructive and firm manner.

marti101

Plus i get the impression from the op the principal is not really taking it seriously.The next time some child mightnt be that lucky you have to nip it in the bud.It takes a while for a child to settle in to school,theyve been at home for 4 years,they start school and theywonder whats going on.The child seen the gate open and decided to go for it because they dont have the sense to think for themselves thats why adults look after them.Let us know how it goes op.

UsedtobePC

kmart6 wrote: »

She should still know that it's wrong to be leaving/going anywhere without someone...never mind a school her mother has left her to!

I take it you don't have any young kids of your own. You can tell them a hundred times not to do something and the second you let go their hand, they go and do it. Literally within seconds. Other parents will agree on that.

I know that two teachers on their own are not capable of keeping an eye on every child that's why the school should and MUST have procedures in place to avoid situations like this (i.e. don't send the teacher to close the gate once the kids are out, close it BEFORE they come out to play)

AnonoBoy

SnowMonkey wrote: »

Im sorry i dissagree completely kids dont "just RUN away " from school.

Yes they do. When I was five I got up, packed my bag and left the classroom without my teacher seeing me and proceeded to walk home. I was just bored and wanted to go home. Of course that was in the 80's - there was no safety back then.

Granted I wasn't crying by the time I got home but the poor kid could have been scared when she was crossing the road. Do 4 year olds bully each other? I would have thought that behaviour starts a bit later.

The real question here is why she was able to leave.

tinabyrne5

Hi all,

Just reading all your replies and are very thankful for your input!

Kmark6, obviously you have no children, no question about it! If you were a parent reading about this would have filled your heart with dread, thinking about what could have happened and thanking your lucky stars that you have never had that experience.
(I guess it must be a parent thing.)
btw I'm not expecting the school to babysit my child. My children are entitled to their education but should be cared for whilst at school!

The gates have to be left open as the school also accommodates preschool students, morning group 9o clock - 11:25. afternoon group 12o clock - 2:30. Yard times is at 12 o clock - 12:30.

I didn't receive a call from the school to inform me that she went walk-abouts because they didn't know which child got out. They wouldn't have known until each teacher took a head count. Rachael is one of 40+ new pupils in the school this year and the teachers and principle are trying to remember all those names to each child's face, which can take time.

Anyway. my husband and i went to see the principle yesterday and told her that we were concerned about the safety of the children while they were in the yard, we made a few simple suggestions to make it less likely to happen again. We decided beforehand to keep it calm but if anywhere along the way we felt that she wasn't listening, we would have to let it fly, but she seemed to be very apologetic about the whole thing and welcomed the suggestions we made.

I set Rachael down and tried to explain to her that what she done was wrong and as punishment, took some of her privileges away from her for the day.