UPC High DEfinition DVR etc

beneton

Well, it's been nearly a year since I asked - so again, what, if any news is there on a roll-out of a HD DVR with UPC and/or HD broadcasts? Earlier scuttlebut 12 months ago had been for a roll-out before the 'end of the year' i.e. 2007. Well, Brown Thomas has opened its Christmas Shop on Grafton Street and I've heard nothing lately. Any news? Anyone?

paulm17781

Last I heard it would be early next year. I think they like saying that as it is always true... :rolleyes:

There isn't much HD content at the minute but I don't really care about that. I still want the HD PVR.

bk

To be honest, there is so few HD channels and so little HD content, it probably isn't a priority for UPC right now.

Their probably focusing on upgrading their network, improving the BB service and maybe even VoD. At least that is what I'd do if I run UPC.

Next year would probably be good enough to start looking at HD.

gpjordanf1

WOW you guys are optomistic!!

HA!

They cant even sort out a simple task as 'Series Link' for the current DVR which was promised earlier this year.
Still waiting, unbelieveable!

Lucky to see HD in 2010-2011 if they still have any customers by then!

bk wrote: »

To be honest, there is so few HD channels and so little HD content, it probably isn't a priority for UPC right now.

Their probably focusing on upgrading their network, improving the BB service and maybe even VoD. At least that is what I'd do if I run UPC.

Next year would probably be good enough to start looking at HD.

bk

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

They cant even sort out a simple task as 'Series Link' for the current DVR which was promised earlier this year.
Still waiting, unbelieveable!

Actually doing proper "Series Link" is really hard to do, you need all the TV stations to supply you with accurate Meta Data through the EPG.

It is easy for Sky to do it as they are such a large and dominant player and made it a requirement for any channel carried on the Sky platform to supply the necessary Meta Data, UPC don't have that much clot.

subway

are you sure about this?
would most companies not just pay a 3rd party to provide EPG data?

Solair

I don't see what the big deal is about UPC implementing series link. The service is on Virgin's V+ boxes in the UK so it's definitely not unique to Sky. If UPC wanted to implement it though could. It's one of the key selling points for Sky+ and the key flaw in UPC's DVR offering.

I wonder if it could possibly be delayed by the fact that UPC are supporting older technology on the old NTL and Chorus boxes over the same network? I assume the EPG information has to be compatible with those units until they're all swapped out?

As for HDTV, they have it in other markets and have access to the equipment. I don't think it's too far away, it's just a matter of them signing up the content providers and rolling out MPEG4 at their head ends. It's not all that complicated really as it's pretty much 'off the shelf' stuff as UPC have already got it rolled out elsewhere so it's not like they have to redevelop a HD solution for their Irish cable networks.

bk

Solair wrote: »

I don't see what the big deal is about UPC implementing series link. The service is on Virgin's V+ boxes in the UK so it's definitely not unique to Sky. If UPC wanted to implement it though could. It's one of the key selling points for Sky+ and the key flaw in UPC's DVR offering.

I'm not saying that it is technically complicated, I'm sure the same UPC boxes support it in their other markets.

But Virgin is like Sky, a large player with lots of clout, UPC, while a large player Europe wide, they are a very small player in the English speaking market, so they have less clout with the UK stations.

I'm sure it is just a matter of time, but I'm also sure it isn't a priority for the UK stations to supply the required info.

They could do a simpler version of series link, like I have on my TiVo, where it records the show based on the name of the show on a particular channel. The problem with this is that you can end up recording a load of repeats that you don't want.

Solair wrote: »

I wonder if it could possibly be delayed by the fact that UPC are supporting older technology on the old NTL and Chorus boxes over the same network? I assume the EPG information has to be compatible with those units until they're all swapped out?

Possible, but I don't see any reason why they can't run two EPG's at the same time, it isn't like IPTV, they have plenty of bandwidth for it.

Solair wrote: »

As for HDTV, they have it in other markets and have access to the equipment. I don't think it's too far away, it's just a matter of them signing up the content providers and rolling out MPEG4 at their head ends. It's not all that complicated really as it's pretty much 'off the shelf' stuff as UPC have already got it rolled out elsewhere so it's not like they have to redevelop a HD solution for their Irish cable networks.

You are right, I'd imagine that the issue is that they need to free up space to fit the new HD channels, they probably need to turn off at least some of the analogue TV channels first.

techdiver

I recently emailed UPC about HD and this is the response I received:

Thank you for your E-Mail.
Apologies for the delay in responding to you.
Unfortunately we have no plans to launch HD tv at present but when it does come available it will be widely advertised.
It has been passed on to the Management team to get this product available as soon as possible.
If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us on our freephone number 1908 or email us on customer.support@upc.ie
Kind regards,
Catriona
Customer Support Team Chorus ntl

Infoanon

Interactive multi screen is the other area they need to get - with BBC gaining more and more popular sports - eg formula 1/motogp & Champions league multi screens on sky its a service that consumers will demand in the near future..

HD is due in 2008 but I would not be holding my breath...

rubadub

bk wrote: »

To be honest, there is so few HD channels and so little HD content, it probably isn't a priority for UPC right now.

Even with a SD signal it is improved hugely with a decent box. I have viewed SD on a cable box with HDMI out which I think upscaled the pic too. I viewed from the scart out on the same box & TV and the difference was very noticeable.

But AFAIK you can only legally use the substandard box which UPC provide, even if you are not decoding subscription channels you should not have. It is analogous to Eircom forcing you to use a bog standard laptop which they supply "free" if you sign up to their broadband package.

People go out and buy a TV for €3k and then are using these crap €50 boxes with them! talk about the weakest link. They really should just copy the BB companies -offer different premium services in different price ranges, and allow you use your own box, just like you can get whatever router you want with most BB companies.

Moriarty

It's hard to do with a broadcast network rubadub. Sky and UPC have very good reasons for maintaining a closed system over their network, it's not done just to annoy customers

vibe666

Moriarty wrote: »

It's hard to do with a broadcast network rubadub. Sky and UPC have very good reasons for maintaining a closed system over their network, it's not done just to annoy customers

no, I think that's just an added bonus for them.

at this stage though, you can hardly call UPC's efforts a closed system.

I think they should take a leaf out of sky's book and probably use an improved method of encryption to stop the pirates.

it's a very long time since sky's initial investment into their encryption system and it's still paying dividends compared to what NTL are using which was hacked a long time ago and is still in place.

rogue-entity

rubadub wrote: »

They really should just copy the BB companies -offer different premium services in different price ranges, and allow you use your own box, just like you can get whatever router you want with most BB companies.

That's how it is in the US IIRC, the FCC forced cable companies to allow third-party receiver/decoder units on their network, and to supply the needed CAM to allow for lawful decryption. It could be done here quite easily.

Moriarty wrote: »

It's hard to do with a broadcast network rubadub. Sky and UPC have very good reasons for maintaining a closed system over their network, it's not done just to annoy customers

How so? Cable uses DVB-C, thirdparty receivers are available with DVB-C tuners (e.g. the DreamBox) and CAM slots to allow lawful decryption of channels you paid to receive. The same holds true for Sky, they could if they chose, allow customers to buy a thirdparty receiver/decoder and an NDS cam to decrypt the channels they pay for. I dont see how its any different from eircom allowing people to use a telephone of their choice bought in Tesco, or me using my own DSL modem instead of the one Digiweb supplied me.

If I want technical support with the phone line, I know that eircom wont touch the extension I installed for the DSL modem, they will go as far as the master socket, and no further. If I want technical support for my broadband, I have to use the modem Digiweb supplied me (even though my older BT modem is far better) to at least rule out an equipment issue.

If I (legally) used a third party decoder for the cable service, I would be accepting the fact that UPC wont help me if it doesnt work properly with their service, and only if the issue occurs with their supplied equipment, or the network itself, will they investigate it or send out an engineer.

I would like to see UPC come out with some good HD channels, the best option out there right now, is Sky, and I have to say, Sky do it quite well. But UPC have far more pressing issues that need to be resolved, such as their atrocious customer service.. Im just glad I dont have to deal with them.

danIrl

technically series link should be quite simple. It has been available on PVR/PC based systems for a long time. There are a number of ways to get EPG data, both free and for a small yearly fee.

rubadub

Moriarty wrote: »

It's hard to do with a broadcast network rubadub. Sky and UPC have very good reasons for maintaining a closed system over their network, it's not done just to annoy customers

I am not just saying they should let you buy & use any third party device. I am also suggesting they should offer more than one box to customers, i.e. at the moment they offer the PVR box for an extra €5 per month, so why not offer a decent standard STB with HDMI or component out for an extra fee per month.

Or charge it at the time of installation, an increased connection fee for a better box.

Moriarty

vibe666 wrote: »

no, I think that's just an added bonus for them.

at this stage though, you can hardly call UPC's efforts a closed system.

I think they should take a leaf out of sky's book and probably use an improved method of encryption to stop the pirates.

it's a very long time since sky's initial investment into their encryption system and it's still paying dividends compared to what NTL are using which was hacked a long time ago and is still in place.

I'd say it's on the cards alright. UPC aren't hard of thinking, I'm sure it's mentioned quite often and I dare say there's a plan to get robust encryption deployed on the network, but it may very well require replacement of all transmission and reciever equipment on the network which will have to be done over a number of years.

rogue-entity wrote: »

That's how it is in the US IIRC, the FCC forced cable companies to allow third-party receiver/decoder units on their network, and to supply the needed CAM to allow for lawful decryption. It could be done here quite easily.


How so? Cable uses DVB-C, thirdparty receivers are available with DVB-C tuners (e.g. the DreamBox) and CAM slots to allow lawful decryption of channels you paid to receive. The same holds true for Sky, they could if they chose, allow customers to buy a thirdparty receiver/decoder and an NDS cam to decrypt the channels they pay for. I dont see how its any different from eircom allowing people to use a telephone of their choice bought in Tesco, or me using my own DSL modem instead of the one Digiweb supplied me.

If I want technical support with the phone line, I know that eircom wont touch the extension I installed for the DSL modem, they will go as far as the master socket, and no further. If I want technical support for my broadband, I have to use the modem Digiweb supplied me (even though my older BT modem is far better) to at least rule out an equipment issue.

If I (legally) used a third party decoder for the cable service, I would be accepting the fact that UPC wont help me if it doesnt work properly with their service, and only if the issue occurs with their supplied equipment, or the network itself, will they investigate it or send out an engineer.

You're not comparing similar systems. DSL provisioning is done inside the telco network at various places, all under the direct control of the telco. Cable provisioning (both tv and broadband) is done on the CPE. All provisioning systems have to work with all devices on the network (ie, everything attached to the network in every subscribers house) all the time, while making sure customers have no access to things they shouldn't have. The only way to ensure that is to maintain a closed system in regards to CPE (cable modems and set top boxes).

It's a non-runner.

rubadub wrote: »

I am not just saying they should let you buy & use any third party device. I am also suggesting they should offer more than one box to customers, i.e. at the moment they offer the PVR box for an extra €5 per month, so why not offer a decent standard STB with HDMI or component out for an extra fee per month.

Or charge it at the time of installation, an increased connection fee for a better box.

It's a possibility. Maybe it's been researched and found that the costs of testing SuperUltraGearReceiver and modifying systems to be compatible with them aren't worth the x% of customers who'd pay €y extra per month for the system. Maybe they think it would cause too many headaches with provisioning. Maybe they've got SuperUltraGearReceiver actually in pre-launch testing for complete deployment to all customers. Or maybe they just think that what they've got at the moment is fine.

Either way, valid issue, I'd be interested to hear what answer UPC would give