ITT: Woman Woe, Advice Please

LegacyUser

Hi all, regular user gone unreg'd to preserve my identity and sorry about being a little vague as some people will know me and whats going on. Sorry for a long winded post.

Anyway to the point basically I met an amazing young woman recently, definitely the best I've felt about anyone in the last 3 years. In my early 20's btw. She's stunningly beautiful, witty, sensitive, lots of similar interests/pursuits, down to earth, has had similar traumatic life experiences I can relate to, a great outlook and perspective on life. I could go on for ages but to be blunt she ticks all the boxes and some more.

Now you've probably been thinking thats great, take the plunge etc. but here's the thing. I'm not a shy person anymore (used to be very shy as a kid) as such. So I enjoy going out and socialising, having the banter and all the associated tomfoolery. I have absolutely no confidence in myself as far as making a move/sealing the deal with girls so to speak. I can get on really well with them and have great fun up to that point. I'm never the most prolific with the ladies but most times like 90% they initiated the "liaison" so to speak due to my awkwardness.

I've already been out for beers and talked plenty and get an amazing aura/vibe from her but I'm getting really paranoid that if I can't bring myself to act on my impulses that I'll become perennial friend material, this has happened on too many occasions for me to be comfortable with. I'm not trying to pedestalize anyone, people are people but some are so much more to me.

The last instance of this happening was well back in college before I dropped out. Lived with 2 girls and 2 lads, fell for one of the girls badly and never did anything. Long story short, had the exact same feelings as per now but never did anything about it and completely fúcked my head up as a result, for that whole year of college. This and more has contributed even more to my "mental block".

I know it's an obvious paradox but I'm now so much more comfortable in a lady's company. I still cannot though, close the issue or make the leap of faith so to speak. Maybe I'm petrified of rejection but can't be sure, I'm not able to analyze this at all myself. I just can't fathom this at all and am going to have sleepless nights or a serious impact on the quality of my lifestyle if I don't figure things out soon.

What do you guys think I should do?

Please help me with any advice if you can. Thanks in advance.

Cliff notes: tl;dr

Fanny Cradock

You will probably only get variations on the manner of how you go about it, but I'm sure everyone's advice will be to ask her out.

jessbeth

From your post I don't know whether you have kissed her yet or not or whether you're not talking about going to bed with her.
Personally, speaking as a girl, if a guy had asked me out on a number of dates and not tried to kiss me I would presume that he's just interested in having me as a friend or that he is extremely shy or maybe gay. If I thought he was extremely shy then I would kiss him first just fleetingly and gently the first time and if he responds then well and good and if not then I would think that he just wants to be friends and leave it at that, so if it's just the kiss you're worried about, go the movies or something where you can be by yourselves and firstly try holding her hand and if that works and she doesn't pull back try for the kiss. Sorry if this sounds infantile. If it's making love you're having trouble initiating then ask her back to yours for a glass of wine, start kissing her and then gently try and remove an an outer piece of clothing, if that works then try to touch her a little more intimately and if that works keep going. I would always tell a guy straight away if he was going too fast rather then giving a false impression and I think most girls are like that

LegacyUser

@ Fanny_Craddock

I fully accept and anticipate the fact that most people will say, ffs grow a pair, step up to the mark etc. probably in a significantly more eloquent way than that.

That's all well and good you know, take what you wish from that. I would be more interested in someone introducing a loose flexible methodology so as to transcend the invisible barrier I've invested so much time in creating to prevent me from just getting on with things.

I know all that rubbish about mirroring body language and moving to caress/nudge them in friendly manner while joking around or whatever. I just can't seem to get the correct. I can't spot or if I think I do, I'll invariably freeze. That and just a simple suggestion of how to bump things from friendliness. I'm absolutely awful and nearly paralyzed when it comes to asking someone to go further than friends or even ask someone out that I don't know too well.

LegacyUser

jessbeth wrote: »

From your post I don't know whether you have kissed her yet or not or whether you're not talking about going to bed with her.
Personally, speaking as a girl, if a guy had asked me out on a number of dates and not tried to kiss me I would presume that he's just interested in having me as a friend or that he is extremely shy or maybe gay. If I thought he was extremely shy then I would kiss him first just fleetingly and gently the first time and if he responds then well and good and if not then I would think that he just wants to be friends and leave it at that, so if it's just the kiss you're worried about, go the movies or something where you can be by yourselves and firstly try holding her hand and if that works and she doesn't pull back try for the kiss. Sorry if this sounds infantile. If it's making love you're having trouble initiating then ask her back to yours for a glass of wine, start kissing her and then gently try and remove an an outer piece of clothing, if that works then try to touch her a little more intimately and if that works keep going. I would always tell a guy straight away if he was going too fast rather then giving a false impression and I think most girls are like that

No I haven't kissed the girl yet, just friendly beers and chatting. You'll probably laugh though. If I get to the point of knowing there is something there where we're somewhat intimate, kissing or more sexual even I have reached a comfort zone. I have know issues with sex or anything. I know where I stand and am satisfied I know how to compose myself in that way.

Like before just even initiating a first kiss or getting to the point of longer friends but more is where I'm struggle and fail spectacularly. FWIW the girl in question is somewhat shy too.

jessbeth

If you're that afraid of it maybe it would be a good idea to get some professional advice about it. (I don't mean this in a negative or sarcastic way) but if you find it that truely paralysing then maybe it would be helpful to have a session with a coun. or somebody who could evaluate why you feel this way and who could give you some really good advice based on your fears.

Morlar

I think your choices are either a) go for it and possibly end up very happy. Or b) dont go for it and have a tortured time of wishing you did, probably sooner or later while she introduces you to her new boyfriend.

Providing she is single and you are too it sounds like you should bite the bullet before you miss your chance.

All the eolquent 'methodologies /recommendations' are irrelevant here. If you really want to you will find a way to ask her sincerely yourself - you shouldnt need hints and tips in order to be honest with her- imo.

LegacyUser

jessbeth wrote: »

If you're that afraid of it maybe it would be a good idea to get some professional advice about it. (I don't mean this in a negative or sarcastic way) but if you find it that truely paralysing then maybe it would be helpful to have a session with a coun. or somebody who could evaluate why you feel this way and who could give you some really good advice based on your fears.

I have been to counseling previously (2 years ago) for a few sessions for different reasons entirely. I never finished the course though. I got no reciprocation from the counselor that was satisfactory for me as to explain what was happening or how I felt.

I was not being dismissive or anything and gave it a fair go. It just didn't work for me at the time. I will definitely consider going to see someone again though, as I feel I've developed a lot in the mean time as a person and would probably have more to gain now than I did then.

RyanAsh

ask her out. theres nothing more flattering (whether shes interested or not). So just summon up the courage and blurt it out, ask her for a few drinks, do it early in the night so you dont spend the whole time worrying about it. Before you go into the pub or whatever meet her somewhere nice and quiet and just say that you need to ask her would she be interested in something more than friendship and tell her you're mad about her but very shy & nervous about these things. Honesty is always charming. Its lovely you like her so much and theres no need to be scared of rejection, if shes any kind of a nice person and she just wants to be friends then im sure she'll be very nice about it and it'll be better to know rather than torturing yourself like you are now. BTW if shes going on plenty of dates with you where you're not making a move she probably really likes you to since she's giving you the time to work up to all this. good luck!

beth-lou

Just ask her out. Be brave. The worst that can happen is she says no. If you are already friends she will do this gently. The best that can happen is that she will say yes. Go for it.

togster

OP it really is as simple as just doing it. Go out again with her, get her dancing and then just go in and kiss her. If she reciprocates so be it. There is nothing more attractive than confidence. Take control of your own brain and take charge. It really is that easy

Dizzyblonde

You have to ask her out, otherwise you'll always wonder 'what if?'. Choose your moment but don't overthink it or it will make it much harder.

jessbeth

pwned_by_ladies wrote: »

I have been to counseling previously (2 years ago) for a few sessions for different reasons entirely. I never finished the course though. I got no reciprocation from the counselor that was satisfactory for me as to explain what was happening or how I felt.

I was not being dismissive or anything and gave it a fair go. It just didn't work for me at the time. I will definitely consider going to see someone again though, as I feel I've developed a lot in the mean time as a person and would probably have more to gain now than I did then.

It's really important too to find the right coun. for yourself and don't be afraid to say shop around and get someone you're comfortable with. It's also good to talk with friends because believe it or not many people have the same insecurities and are afraid to say. Anyway sometimes it's really nice to meet a guy who is just a bit shy and not trying to just jump your bones straight away. Kudos for that. Sometimes it's good to just 'feel the fear and do it anyway'. Somebody wrote a book about that.

Setun

Me and my current gf met in college, and initially there was a bit of dilly-dallying when we met, brief shy chats etc despite us both liking each other. She made a move one night, and now almost 2 years later still I haven't escaped from her Nah just kidding, having a great time together, v happy. It's a risk definitely worth taking imo if you really like someone. Best of luck

LegacyUser

Thanks guys for some top opinions, I guess I'm going to just swallow the lump in my throat and go for it. It'll probably be a phone call or in person, I'm leaning towards face to face.

As someone alluded to before, a few days anguish is better than having another year of headfúck. It'd be even worse if she got snapped up herself, which I've no doubt will happen soon enough if I do nothing.

I'll post a little trip report in a week or a few days to let you know the story.

Boards delivers yet again, thanks everyone.

Disssgruntled

pwned_by_ladies wrote: »

Thanks guys for some top opinions, I guess I'm going to just swallow the lump in my throat and go for it. It'll probably be a phone call or in person, I'm leaning towards face to face.

As someone alluded to before, a few days anguish is better than having another year of headfúck. It'd be even worse if she got snapped up herself, which I've no doubt will happen soon enough if I do nothing.

I'll post a little trip report in a week or a few days to let you know the story.

Boards delivers yet again, thanks everyone.

Hey, just wanted to add my own 2c - seems to me that the whole problem stems from your own appraisal of this girl as being pretty fcuking cool and this has created a whole nerve-wracking scenario where you are very anxious about making a mess of everything and driving her away etc.

- Nobody should ever slander you for this 'cause if you feel a certain way about a girl it can knock you out in a way that other stuff wouldn't touch.

My advice would be to be honest and straightforward about how you've been holding off out of anxiety because you were worried about this being a once in a lifetime thing over a once in a lifetime girl - then any nervousness, awkwardness and long agonising silences would be a compliment to her rather than a liability - ie. hey I'm stuggling here - its 'cause you're so damn cool. Surely the sincere honesty, implied compliments, flattery and the fact that its all genuine and true should get you through :pac:

P.S. If she's as cool as you say - she already knows how ya feel.
P.P.S. Phone Joe Duffy, Dominos or Hackney Cabs now, phone this girl when you're 10 years married and late home from the Pub [ie. Do this thing face to face ya dope ]

LegacyUser

Hi again,

Last night I had a very bad experience, possibly one of the worst of my life. I was so upset I was ready to manifest boiling rage and disappointment in the worst possible way, lets not say anymore. Luckily I got hold of one of my best mates on the phone and just speaking to them soothed me a little.

Afterwards my mind went really weirdly psychedelically active, I never ever took drugs. Just racing thoughts and scenarios, never really experienced this, like a wide awake dream/nightmare. I didn't sleep, cried a little but not really able to do much as I was kinda dehydrated from booze (The fúcking problem in the first place, if I didn't drink in the first place, ldo). So basically I was lying on my couch as I got out of my bed - the safest place in my world. The only way I could get myself to calm was to write down what I was thinking. I'm not a reader of any literature per say except school poems/novels/plays a few yeas ago and I never blog so this was a weird experience for me, 1st time in fact. I got a chair from the kitchen, cup of tea and headed for the most treasured and spectacular sunrise in my garden.

This is what I wrote, a good bit of which was quite ambiguous to me but several hours later so much clearer.

I see sparrows, robins, chaffinches, tits.
A magpie cackles uncontrollably.
Parallels my blubbing

Paddy's "wink and elbow language of delight,"
Has always eluded me.

This stagnant, condensate beginning,
Reflects my somber thoughts

Those heathen witches of lore,
Have frayed my string of consciousness.
This point of mono-atomic hypertension to snap.
Yet some undiscovered fundamental force,
Not prepared to relinquish.

Fantastical ecstasy and tangible desolation
Are the sigma of my day.

To shelter my wilting, flickering flame of fate,
From the face of this gust of wrath.
I face my Augean stables.

Elucidation of facts incomprehensible.
Only strikes in such extremes.
Oh, intermission inconsequential,
What are you worth?

My face the cartographer.
Provides an emotionally botoxed, gruff rebuke.
A mannequin delivered of succubus infatuate.

My biro, paper and brew
Embrace the last sunrise.
It's production born to chaos.

Do not be the last !
This embrace was meant for the demon's arms.

The immensely steadfast copper beech,
Anchors this garden of neglect.
Behold I, ye fauna lacking electromagnetic sensitivity.
For I stand alone.
A marooned oddity
Not worthy of your emerald iridescence .
This my malevolence

Wheels bustling with mechanical growl to responsibility,
Yet with no focus.
Oft cared birds now reject me.
In the distance greyhounds howl,
A choir appraisal.

What do I have left?
Pixelated purgatory.
These binary built logarithms of interaction
Blissful ignorance again bestowed.
Anesthetizing time dilation

"True?"
Resplendent unrequited obsession
Becomes my annihilation.

NO MORE

So this transported me back to "reality" Any physiological urges were at temporarily bay now as I headed to play nba 08' and pro evo on my wii, which is always neutral of judgment. My siblings soon woke in chronological order for work and school. I was now safe.

So now I've been to the doctor today, he gave me some amazing advice and a referral for an assessment. I'm happy but I've still got a bad buzz at the moment but nowhere near last night. I don't know whats round the corner but I'll take it as it comes. Probably more to follow this post but my writing "career" is hopefully over as I never want to have those feelings again. They are so so dangerous, I'm now almost scared $hitless of myself. I'm not going to be drinking for a while either. I never drink much anyway, but safety first.

Unpaid hard working mods sorry for a long post to review, but I needed to get this off my chest.

Setun

Fair play on going to the doctor anyway, I can understand it can be tough to be proactive about getting up off your arse and talking to a professional about your self esteem, but it has to be done. If it helps you should definitely keep up the writing. Oh yeah, and visit here.

Pen1987

Not meaning to be crass... but do (I presume you did go ahead and take the plunge even though you didnt say so implicately) regret asking her? or how you went about it?

SpookyDoll

So now I've been to the doctor today, he gave me some amazing advice and a referral for an assessment

Glad to hear it OP, I wouldn't mention this to the girl though and I wouldn't show her the....er.....poem

LegacyUser

Woah, really surprised to see that last post up so long after I wrote it. Thanks Dudara and Beruthiel for doing that for me. Much appreciated.

Well basically things came to ahead and she knows how I feel. Now I never got an explicit no or yes as she said she's not sure how she feels...?? Suppose that's better than nothing. I'm happy now even if she tells me to feck off I won't be too bothered as my mind is clear and I can move on. I feel a lot better about that and now have no fear as to how to approach things in future. A huge weight lifted off my shoulders. I'm actually chuckling to myself about several things I have done(or not!!) and thought about over the years. It really is the most natural thing you can do and have nothing but positives to be the outcome. A win-win situation simple as. Yes - sorted and happy days. No - meh and next in line please !!! Suppose fear of the unknown and a step into the dark was the issue. And when you don't know the mind can act up and spin things out of proportion

Emm I don't think anyone will be seeing that "poem" for quite some time except maybe my therapist. I might have one last post for this thread when she figures out how she feels. Til' then thanks mods and everyone who posted here.

LegacyUser

Hi back again. I never got any word back from her. Basically anyway she ended up kissing a couple of lads and possibly worse recently. God I wanted to break windows and throw all the toys out of the pram. So well I know where I stand right now. That's all well and good but I'm still immensely upset with how things panned out. Like, grand tomorrow I might cop off with some young one whom I feel I may have 67.847% compatibility with but never getting anywhere near the type of particular individual I really want to be around. Plus the other lads are shítheads based on my knowledge of them. Don't start all the she's not for you type, I don't want to hear it.

I feel ridiculously incompetent and impotent right now, emotionally, physically and mentally. So drained also. Trying to purge my mind of these events is proving a lot more difficult than I thought possible. I'm angry with myself for not being able to shake things off. I'm angry again with myself for being angry with myself in the first place too. I'm trying to work out how the fúck I can produce such intense emotional and mental attachment to someone so easily. Not to confuse this with lust - although maybe it's a different layer of lustfulness for me. I really don't have a clue.

To add insult to injury the referral I got from the health boards mental health officer was for a fúcking child and not a grown man(well I'm not quite grown up if you ask me) nonetheless.

And yes to all that said it's better to find out, you are right. It's just a complete pain in the hole for me and even so I treasure and appreciate all advice within this thread.

LegacyUser

Hey OP, really sorry to hear it turned out this way for you. But hey, at least you know she's not interested in you in that way and can move on now.
I was in quite a similar situation myself a few years ago, this "nice" guy I liked in school knew how I felt about him and just led me on, not saying either yes or no. Now THAT was a torture!
You sound like a really genuine and caring guy, so I'm sure there'll be plenty of other lovely girls who'll like you just as much as you like them!
Good luck with everything!!!

//btw, the poem.... is it just me or does it not make much sense....?

LegacyUser

dnt hv an accnt wrote: »

Hey OP, really sorry to hear it turned out this way for you. But hey, at least you know she's not interested in you in that way and can move on now.
I was in quite a similar situation myself a few years ago, this "nice" guy I liked in school knew how I felt about him and just led me on, not saying either yes or no. Now THAT was a torture!
You sound like a really genuine and caring guy, so I'm sure there'll be plenty of other lovely girls who'll like you just as much as you like them!
Good luck with everything!!!

//btw, the poem.... is it just me or does it not make much sense....?

Well to be honest it doesn't make much sense to me either. I do know what everything means obv but it just doesn't seem to be logical. I was fairly strung out at the time.

Well anyone I talked to about this girl was just of the opinion you'll get over it, keep some distance and your options open. Thing is though I'm notoriously fussy with girls. They must meet or surpass certain criteria for me not like she's a 10/10 girl on looks and thats it. Like there is an ocean of difference between girls for me. Jaysus she's hot, wouldn't mind getting the leg over to I'd crawl bollock naked through a bed of nettles just to say hello. So I suppose then that makes things harder for me as I only find truly attractive girls very very infrequently based on looks, personality, interests, sense of humour, intelligence outlook on life etc......

Ah well on to bigger and better things I hope.

trynabe

pwned_by_ladies wrote: »

Hi back again. I never got any word back from her. Basically anyway she ended up kissing a couple of lads and possibly worse recently. God I wanted to break windows and throw all the toys out of the pram. So well I know where I stand right now. That's all well and good but I'm still immensely upset with how things panned out. Like, grand tomorrow I might cop off with some young one whom I feel I may have 67.847% compatibility with but never getting anywhere near the type of particular individual I really want to be around. Plus the other lads are shítheads based on my knowledge of them. Don't start all the she's not for you type, I don't want to hear it.

I feel ridiculously incompetent and impotent right now, emotionally, physically and mentally. So drained also. Trying to purge my mind of these events is proving a lot more difficult than I thought possible. I'm angry with myself for not being able to shake things off. I'm angry again with myself for being angry with myself in the first place too. I'm trying to work out how the fúck I can produce such intense emotional and mental attachment to someone so easily. Not to confuse this with lust - although maybe it's a different layer of lustfulness for me. I really don't have a clue.

To add insult to injury the referral I got from the health boards mental health officer was for a fúcking child and not a grown man(well I'm not quite grown up if you ask me) nonetheless.

And yes to all that said it's better to find out, you are right. It's just a complete pain in the hole for me and even so I treasure and appreciate all advice within this thread.

look bud dont think too much about anything in life , thats what your doin and its complicating everything for you ,,sit back relax and let life bring what it brings ,it will anyway no matter how much you worry procrastinate etc.
as regards making a move on a woman, when ye had a few drinks and a laugh you should of created a funny situation where your facing her one on one then lean in and tell her "dont you dare kiss me " if she keeps eye contact, laughs ,drops her jaw and slaps you playfully then kiss her ,if she pushes you off or gets upset you can say "im messing" this way you can laugh it off as a joke and minimise embarresement for both parties
now stop thinking too much ,,,do things, if you mess up so what ,youl learn , the man who never tried never achieved anything , so try it all
good luck in your life
hope this helped