upc netherlands launch 120mbps

everdead.ie

“The launch of our Fiber Power broadband services in Europe marks another milestone in cable's long-standing superiority of DSL. Hands down, this will be the fastest and most robust broadband service available in our markets. In addition to the Netherlands deployment announced today, Liberty Global expects to begin the commercial introduction of similar advanced internet products in Switzerland and Austria before the end of this year, and in most if not all of our European markets by the end of 2009.”
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20080915005558&newsLang=en
Hopefully Ireland is included in that

Elem

That would cost alot of €€€€ considering we hardly have any fibre optics.

Gonzovision

Absolutely sickens me when I'm stuck on 3g at best and GPRS if I decide to move my laptop or if the wind blows in my general direction.

Rant over.

paulm17781

AFAIK, a large amount of UPCs network is fibre. I think most of the cities are heavily laid with fibre too.

MunsterCycling

Nope, UPCs network is mostly legacy Cable around here at any rate.

MC

vibe666

hmm, looks like they're doing a good job of covering their asses in respect to forward thinking statements for 'technology issues' in backward facing Ireland.

This press release contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including our expectations with regard to our deployment of EuroDOCSIS 3.0 technology in our European markets. These forward-looking statements involve certain risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by these statements. These risks and uncertainties include vendor delays and technology issues. These forward-looking statements speak only as of the date of this release. The Company expressly disclaims any obligation or undertaking to disseminate any updates or revisions to any forward looking statement contained herein to reflect any change in the Company’s expectations with regard thereto or any change in events conditions, or circumstances on which any such statement is based.

Ginger

The whole area around me has had fibre put down lately.. the maximum one i think you can get here is 50Meg tho 25 would the standard..

Id expect a bit of upsurge in the fibre now.. score

everdead.ie

upc have been uprooting all ntl's and cable links legacy fibre for a while now putting down hfc (hybrid fibre-copper) and their backbone network works off the man's in the cities. I know that they bond several channels together to get theese speeds which is like the amount of space that three analougue tv channels take up to get that kind of download. I dont think its as far away as some think just remeber how long it took eircom to go from 3mb/s to 7.6mb/s and it will prob be pretty fast in comparison.

vibe666

they put a MAN in around Navan in 2006 but it's never been used. :mad:

i've called and emailed around relevent people but had no joy at all. keep getting told that it's still in testing which I take to mean 'it's totally fecked and we don't know what to do with it'.

But having said that, in the last week or two there have been some small 10-12" square holes cut into the pavement at various points down my street.

unfortunately i didn't see who did the cutting anf they've just re-concreted over them again now so I have no idea what it was for, but you never know, it could be something fancy.

still debating if i'm brave enough to trade in my 7.6mbps BT DSL for UPC 20mbps though, part of me knows I'm going to regret it.

paulm17781

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Nope, UPCs network is mostly legacy Cable around here at any rate.

Is it still 2004?

UPC have something like 66% of their network as HFC (hybrid fibre-coax).

dub45

paulm17781 wrote: »

Is it still 2004?

UPC have something like 66% of their network as HFC (hybrid fibre-coax).

Irrespective of what they have in the ground their service now appears to be highly suspect yet again with absolutely no communications with their customers. Will they ever learn:rolleyes:?

paulm17781

dub45 wrote: »

Irrespective of what they have in the ground their service now appears to be highly suspect yet again with absolutely no communications with their customers. Will they ever learn:rolleyes:?

The question was about fibre.

Mine has been ok I think. I do think some of their routing has been a bit dodgy but the only thing I've noticed slowness on is rapidshare which could be down to rapidshare.

bk

Elem wrote: »

That would cost alot of €€€€ considering we hardly have any fibre optics.

Note this service isn't Fibre to The Home. It is Fibre to the local node and then using EuroDOCSIS 3 from the local node over co-ax to the customers home.

UPC's upgraded network works in exactly the same way, there is an awful lot of fibre in the ground now and they just need to change out the DOCSIS 2 gear with DOCSIS 3 to enable these sort of speeds.

Hey, last year most people would tell you your crazy if you said you would be able to get 20mb BB for €40 per month, now it is a reality.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote: »

The question was about fibre.

Mine has been ok I think. I do think some of their routing has been a bit dodgy but the only thing I've noticed slowness on is rapidshare which could be down to rapidshare.

My point was not directed at your good self - it was that irrespective of what they (or any other isp) have in the ground unless they can provide proper service and communicate with their customers the nominal speeds are irrelevant. Just look at all the threads about upc since they upgraded the top speeds - its looks far more like a marketing move that a real jump for most people.

paulm17781

dub45 wrote: »

My point was not directed at your good self - it was that irrespective of what they (or any other isp) have in the ground unless they can provide proper service and communicate with their customers the nominal speeds are irrlevant. Just look at all the threads about upc since they upgraded the top speeds - its looks far more like a marketing move that a real jump for most people.

I was really hoping you weren't doing your usual.

MC: There isn't a lot of fibre around at the moment.
PM: UPC have lots of fibre.
Dub45: Argue about a different topic related to the same company.

I agree their service has been shaky lately. That's not the point of the thread and the service and the fibre are different things.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote: »

I was really hoping you weren't doing your usual.

MC: There isn't a lot of fibre around at the moment.
PM: UPC have lots of fibre.
Dub45: Argue about a different topic related to the same company.

I agree their service has been shaky lately. That's not the point of the thread and the service and the fibre are different things.

As usual I don't agree with you:)

The best and fastest fibre in the world is irrelevant if they (or any other isp) don't back it up with proper service and communication with their customer.
Their is little point in offer 'up to' 20 Mb (insert your own figure) if achieving it is a lottery.

smellslikeshoes

UPC have been working hard on getting rid of the older infrastructure here, I can imagine Ireland getting these sort of speeds within the time frame (or close to it). They will probably have a couple of incremental speed increases between now and then though. In my opinion Upc is in the best position of all the ISP's in ireland as regards infrastructure for the next generation of speeds and I could imagine them leaving the Dsl providers in the dust in the near future unless serious investment is made. Now if UPC could only sort out their ****e service.

vibe666

I think that's a very good point smellslikeshoes. with the best will in the world, the current copper infrastructure is right on the limit of what's possible, even with ADSL2+ most people can't make anything like 20mbps so until someone rips out all the copper I don't think it's likely to get much faster (unless someojne knows of some new DSL standard that can overcome crappy infrastructure).

cable on the other hand is very well positioned to take the lead.

according to wikipedia the max download speed for EuroDOCSIS 3.0 is 200Mbit/s for 4 channel and 400Mbit/s for 8 channel altho it seems like there's a bit of wriggle room even after that, should the need arise.

Note: NTSC 6MHZ channel spacing will allow 10 bonded 6 MHz channels as MAX spectrum allocation for DOCSIS3.0 data, 60 MHz spectrum allocation could increase with consumer needs and re-allocation of analog TV channels into compressed digital space, leveraging the capability of DOCSIS 3.0 infrastructure to allow for 1 Gbit/s speeds in the future

I don't see DSL being able to trump that any time soon.

or wireless for that matter, but you never know.

Moriarty

EuroDOCSIS has a slightly wider channel aswell, resulting in a tad more bandwidth compared to DOCSIS.

christophicus

So it would make sense to think that if and when this service comes here, they will more then likely be shutting off their Analogue TV ??

smellslikeshoes

vibe666 wrote: »

I think that's a very good point smellslikeshoes. with the best will in the world, the current copper infrastructure is right on the limit of what's possible, even with ADSL2+ most people can't make anything like 20mbps so until someone rips out all the copper I don't think it's likely to get much faster (unless someojne knows of some new DSL standard that can overcome crappy infrastructure).

Well the DSL technology is already there to get up to speeds that can compete (and surpass) with DOCSIS 3 (for people close-ish to the exchange at least). VDSL, VDSL2 is still going to keep copper going for a few years yet. My point is Eircom don't have much money and have done very little to invest in staying competitive in the long term. Even if Eircom start investing now, they will still be far behind UPC.

UPC have taken the bull by the horns and are pumping a lot of money into their network and have been for some time. A significant investment will be needed by Eircom to get past the 24mbit max of ADSL2+ unlike UPC who are already capable of going higher. I can see UPC breaking the 50mbit mark by next summer and Eircom really isn't going to have much to hit back with. Other than giving residential customers ADSL2+ and sending their already creaking network to maximum.

vibe666

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

....Eircom don't have much money...

I'd humbly like to call bull$hit on that statement.

it's not a lack of money, it's a lack of wanting to spend it on anything other than shareholders that's the problem.

for eircom to compete with even BT they'll have to forgo ADSL2+ and had straight for VDSL or similar, but getting eircom to invest in that kind of thing is going to be a very difficult task that would most likely require government intervention which we all know despite lots of posturing and hot air blowing isn't actually going to happen when it comes to the crunch. they'll talk a good fight then quietly shelve any plans to actually do anything. :mad:

Anti

Elem wrote: »

That would cost alot of €€€€ considering we hardly have any fibre optics.

If i remember rightly there is a fiber ring all the way around the country, and alot of areas do have fiber (newer estates and business parks)

DECEiFER

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Nope, UPCs network is mostly legacy Cable around here at any rate.

MC

Wikipedia wrote:

Cable television in the Republic of Ireland is the most common system for distributing multi-channel television in the state. With a 40+ year history and extensive networks of both wired and "wireless" cable, the Republic of Ireland is amongst the most cabled countries in Europe.

Wikipedia wrote:

The majority of major cable systems in Ireland now use a mix of both microwave links and satellite, along with various Fibre-optic feeds.

Wikipedia wrote:

Digital networks have far more sophisticated trunking systems. The five main Cities (Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick,and Waterford), along with towns like Dungarvan, Clonmel, Kilkenny etc now enjoy state of the art Fibre optic-driven networks which are used to deliver a myriad of services, including analogue and digital TV, broadband, and VoIP phones.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_television_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

smellslikeshoes

vibe666 wrote: »

I'd humbly like to call bull$hit on that statement.

it's not a lack of money, it's a lack of wanting to spend it on anything other than shareholders that's the problem.

for eircom to compete with even BT they'll have to forgo ADSL2+ and had straight for VDSL or similar, but getting eircom to invest in that kind of thing is going to be a very difficult task that would most likely require government intervention which we all know despite lots of posturing and hot air blowing isn't actually going to happen when it comes to the crunch. they'll talk a good fight then quietly shelve any plans to actually do anything. :mad:

No really, Eircom are what, 4 BILLION in debt? The costs of servicing such a debt are huge. Eircom DO NOT have the money for any serious network investment in the near future. The government can't force Eircom to invest in their network, its just doesn't work that way.

vibe666

bugger, didn't realise they were up the $hits like that, just figured they were spending all the money on yachts and hookers.

bk

christophicus wrote: »

So it would make sense to think that if and when this service comes here, they will more then likely be shutting off their Analogue TV ??

Probably or at least reduce the number of channels on analogue, maybe to just the 4 national channels.

Note UPC have already turned off the analogue network in Cork, as it was easy to do there as you had to have a box anyway to get analogue in Cork.

It has always been on the plate, as UPC needs the room for BB, VoD, extra SD channels and of course HD channels. It also has the benefit of helping reduce piracy.

christophicus wrote: »

Well the DSL technology is already there to get up to speeds that can compete (and surpass) with DOCSIS 3 (for people close-ish to the exchange at least). VDSL, VDSL2 is still going to keep copper going for a few years yet. My point is Eircom don't have much money and have done very little to invest in staying competitive in the long term. Even if Eircom start investing now, they will still be far behind UPC.

VDSL2 is all fine and good, but there is little point in putting it in the current exchanges, you will only benefit from the higher speeds of VDSL2 if you move the DSLAMS out of the exchanges and into curb side boxes on every street and every estate and feed by fibre. Pretty much like how UPC's HFC network works.

VDSL2 need to be within 1km to get 50mb/s, at 1.6 km is performs the same as ADSL2+.

The problem for Eircom is that such an upgrade is going to take a lot of money and it doesn't look like Eircom have it.

Eircom look like they are in big trouble and I can't say that I'm too disappointed about that! However it would be healthier for the whole market if they were able to compete.

christophicus

bk wrote: »

Probably or at least reduce the number of channels on analogue, maybe to just the 4 national channels.

Note UPC have already turned off the analogue network in Cork, as it was easy to do there as you had to have a box anyway to get analogue in Cork.

It has always been on the plate, as UPC needs the room for BB, VoD, extra SD channels and of course HD channels. It also has the benefit of helping reduce piracy.



VDSL2 is all fine and good, but there is little point in putting it in the current exchanges, you will only benefit from the higher speeds of VDSL2 if you move the DSLAMS out of the exchanges and into curb side boxes on every street and every estate and feed by fibre. Pretty much like how UPC's HFC network works.

VDSL2 need to be within 1km to get 50mb/s, at 1.6 km is performs the same as ADSL2+.

The problem for Eircom is that such an upgrade is going to take a lot of money and it doesn't look like Eircom have it.

Eircom look like they are in big trouble and I can't say that I'm too disappointed about that! However it would be healthier for the whole market if they were able to compete.

I would just like to point out that I did not say the second quote there :P .

smellslikeshoes

bk wrote: »

VDSL2 is all fine and good, but there is little point in putting it in the current exchanges, you will only benefit from the higher speeds of VDSL2 if you move the DSLAMS out of the exchanges and into curb side boxes on every street and every estate and feed by fibre. Pretty much like how UPC's HFC network works.

VDSL2 need to be within 1km to get 50mb/s, at 1.6 km is performs the same as ADSL2+.

The problem for Eircom is that such an upgrade is going to take a lot of money and it doesn't look like Eircom have it.

Eircom look like they are in big trouble and I can't say that I'm too disappointed about that! However it would be healthier for the whole market if they were able to compete.

I am aware of all of this and understand the costs involved in upgrading to VDSL. I probably should have elaborated on my point more.

Following up on my original point that Eircom don't have the money to invest on their network, Anyone here remember this announcement from Eircom? They made some noise about it back then and in interviews it was mentioned that service would be there by mid 2007. Then nothing about it until April of this year when they asked the government to finance it, article here. It just shows that Eircom really don't have the money to Upgrade their network and UPC really are in the best position of any ISP for the next generation of speeds.

bk

christophicus wrote: »

I would just like to point out that I did not say the second quote there :P .

Sorry, cut and paste error

christophicus

bk wrote: »

Sorry, cut and paste error

Lol np mate .

vibe666

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

It just shows that Eircom really don't have the money to Upgrade their network and UPC really are in the best position of any ISP for the next generation of speeds.

i still reckon they do have the cash but they keep spending it on yachts and hookers at the expense of superfast(er) broadband for the masses.